In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns on a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The design can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be obtained from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:40:26 GMT, "Chris Trask"
wrote:

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Hi Chris,

It looks like you may both have problems.

Tom is quoted here, infrequently, but sparingly so where what "he
says" is often clipped to fit the argument in rebuttal. It would be
far simpler to completely remove what "he says" and present your own
offering for support or examination.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Chris:

This looks like a new idea to me. I will wind a couple/few and play
with them. If they perform as you state--this is revolutionary.

Now be prepared for attacks from the ego freaks and religious radio
zealots... ESPECIALLY if you are correct... grin

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

That being the case, here are the postings where the quotes came from.
The first quote:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

can be found in it's entirety in the QRP-L archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...12/020884.html

showing that it is not taken out of context, and the second quote:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

can also be found in it's entirety in the QRP-L archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

again showing that it is not taken out of context. With very little effort,
anyone can go through this thread (as well as the spin-off threads).

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Clark"
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: A Single-Core 4:1 Current Balun


On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:40:26 GMT, "Chris Trask"
wrote:

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above statements
to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Hi Chris,

It looks like you may both have problems.

Tom is quoted here, infrequently, but sparingly so where what "he
says" is often clipped to fit the argument in rebuttal. It would be
far simpler to completely remove what "he says" and present your own
offering for support or examination.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:15:44 GMT, "Chris Trask"
wrote:

again showing that it is not taken out of context. With very little effort,
anyone can go through this thread (as well as the spin-off threads).

Hi Chris,

And if I wanted a refinement of what Tom said, does he get the same
chance at dialog as you are seeking?

Too often this turns to one interpreting for Tom (me or you).

Again, you have an issue you wish to present, that's fine, if you want
a debate judged, it needs more than one wrestler.

Strip out the controversy of he-said-she-said and cut to the heart of
what you have to offer. For one, I notice you say you have an
improved BalUn. To me it looks slightly blighted irrespective of what
Tom may have to say (and I certainly don't count him as an authority
on the topic).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"John Smith" wrote:


This looks like a new idea to me. I will wind a couple/few and play
with them. If they perform as you state--this is revolutionary.

Now be prepared for attacks from the ego freaks and religious radio
zealots... ESPECIALLY if you are correct... grin

John


John,
Thank you. I went looking through the extensive literature that I have
here before sitting down and coming up with this. After it was all modeled,
prototyped, and tested I could only wondered why I had not seen something
like this earlier.

I've modeled this as ideal transformers, real-world transformers (with
losses and parasitics), ideal transmission lines, and lossy transmission
lines and it comes out the same, with minor variations of course. I
prototyped it with short coaxial cables as I did in order to minimse the
parasitics and show that the models and the concept were basically valid.

I'm already catching some flak, but so far it's mostly pointless dribble
and obfuscation. You wouldn't believe some of the nonsense that I've been
seeing. One person claims that in order to use ferrite properly with
coaxial cables to make them appear shorter the ferrite has to be inside the
cable between the outer braid and the centre conductor. He was immediately
slam-dunked into the kill filter.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

.... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

Be sure to print it out as it changes almost daily. Very strange,
indeed.

--
Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

Chris:

You do not agree with any of his analysis?

You do not think this is more of an isolation transformer than a balun?
If not, how do you claim a "transmission line" quality/effect to it?

And, you did notice an insertion loss from this "device", didn't you?

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
Be sure to print it out as it changes almost daily. Very strange,
indeed.

--
Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns
on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The
design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of
this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be
obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

Tom is absolutely desparate to prove to the world that you cannot under
any circumstances make a 4:1 current balun on a single core. So, he tests
the single core Guanella balun with the usual test for a current balun
(short the outputs to gound one at a time and see if the input return loss
changes) knowing fully well that the Guanella 4:1 current balun on a single
core will only work with floating loads.

He is now equally desparate to prove that since nobody but he
understands transmission line transformers it is impossible for anyone else
to understand or apply them. He also fails completely in understanding that
the ferrite used in transmission line transformers is to improve the low
frequency end by making the transmission line appear longer.

He's truly amazing, and he is mad as hell. He claims that it is
absolutely impossible to make a 4:1 current balun on a single core with a
pair of 1:1 transformers (of any kind whatsoever), while the Guanelle 4:1
current balun has a pair of 1:1 transformers on a single core right in front
of him. He also makes numerous other outrageous claims that defy all manner
of electronics theory.

Here are some of his more memorable quotes along with the URLs for the
QRP-L archives so you can see that he is not taken out of context, contrary
to what he says:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

which in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...12/020884.html

This is a good one:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

which in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

and the following:

"It is physically impossible to build a transmission line
current balun other than 1:1 on a single core when the
windings have mutual coupling through the core."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021442.html

as well as:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the
start to finish of each transmission line. You can find it
in voltage maps of the balun."

which is the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...21/021331.html

and additionally:

"It is quite possible to build any reasonable ratio of
conventional transformer (as long as it is the square of
turns ratio) on a single core. It is quite impossible to
build a current balun of any ratio other than 1:1 using
multiple transmission line transformers on a single core
unless flux leakage between transmission lines is terrible."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021408.html

as well as:

"It impossible to build anything but a 1:1 ratio current
balun when multiple transmission line transformers are
placed on a single core. The voltage map shows that, as does
the basic electrical rule of current baluns that all
currents in all windings must sum to zero under all load
balance conditions."

which is in the archives at:

http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/qrp...22/021416.html

There is no room for ambiguity here. As you can see, he is making
unsubstantiated claims of "it is impossible" and "it is well established"
that have no basis in fact. The problem here is really that I solved the
problem of the single-core 4:1 current balun and he is mad as hell because
in his world such a thing cannot possibly exist. So, he makes up additional
new electronics theories to prove that everything you know is wrong.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Chris:

You do not agree with any of his analysis?

You do not think this is more of an isolation transformer than a balun?
If not, how do you claim a "transmission line" quality/effect to it?

And, you did notice an insertion loss from this "device", didn't you?

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
Be sure to print it out as it changes almost daily. Very strange,
indeed.

--
Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
A very interesting analysis of this design can be found at:
http://www.w8ji.com/balun_single_core_41_analysis.htm

... for those who have not yet seen it.

John

"Chris Trask" wrote in message
ink.net...
In recent days on the QRP-L mailing list, the following remarks
were
made by Tom Rauch, W8JI regarding the design of 4:1 current baluns:

"...it is impossible to build a 4:1 ratio current balun that
uses two 1:1 baluns on a single core."

and:

"It's well established any balun made up of series / parallel
transmission lines requires different voltages from the start
to finish of each transmission line. "

I have devised and modeled a 4:1 current balun using two 1:1 baluns
on
a
single core, and have tested a fully functional prototype. The
design
can
be built without any core, if so desired. The full disclosure of
this
design with all theory, references, and test results can be
obtained
from my
web page at:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~chris...k4to1Balun.pdf

The design proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the above
statements to
the contrary are, to put it mildly, gravely in error.

Chris

,----------------------. High Performance Mixers and
/ What's all this \ Amplifiers for RF Communications
/ extinct stuff, anyhow? /
\ _______,--------------' Chris Trask / N7ZWY
_ |/ Principal Engineer
oo\ Sonoran Radio Research
(__)\ _ P.O. Box 25240
\ \ .' `. Tempe, Arizona 85285-5240
\ \ / \
\ '" \ IEEE Senior Member #40274515
. ( ) \
'-| )__| :. \ Email:
| | | | \ '.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask
c__; c__; '-..'.__

Graphics by Loek Frederiks