"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message
news:f02zb.640$yf.222@fed1read01...
Au Contraire -- a ham here who had an antenna up for years was told that
the
HOA voted it an eyesore and he was to take it down --He pleaded
"Grandfathering" and a long legal battle ensued and he lost. The CC&R was
not on antennas -- but on an "obnoxious structure"

--
73 From The Wilderness Keyboard

Then it would have gone to Federal court where I would've used PRB-1. This
is a federal statute that requires that communities (municipal, county, etc)
make
reasonable accomodation for amateur antennas. I would
bet neither you or I have all the facts you are relating because IF that
antenna had been in place for "years"
as you say, I still believe it would have to be grand-fathered. But because
some muckety mucks move in
after *I* have had a tower for years (17) I must now remove it? Well,
they'll have to show me the hard way.

Eventually, the comformity crowd just may have to stick out their lips and
bear it, because there is an antenna bill
before Congress that *may* cause the blue-hairs heart failure! It will mean
that HOAs will have to make the same *reasonable* accomodations as local
governments.
Why? Because Amateur Radio is considered a part of America's communications
infrastructure and has been proven a valuable asset. While it is, foremost,
a hobby,
many people never consider will happen when towers fall,
a tornado strikes, or even a forest fire strikes. Those yuppy cell phones
aren't worth a tinker's dam (no, not 'damn'), your computer doesn't work
without power or
phone lines, and what's left? Ham Radio, *some* ES
comms, Civil Air Patrol, et al. And who will cry "foul" first? The same
air-headed HOA people so hell-bent
to get rid of "ugly" antennas. The same ones that will
scream "I WANT MY PHONE AND TV BACK ON"!
"How can I find out if my mother in the next town is OK"? And you,
likely, won't find out! Because you
ran off the neighbor that *could've* helped. You embarked on this power
trip. Das Shutzstassen (SS)und Dummkopten. Ya, Idioten!
And your pleas will be met with exactly what you wanted:


......................................Silence


J

"Jerry Oxendine" wrote in message
...

"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message
news:7yryb.294$yf.196@fed1read01...
Outwitting -- use Stealth Antennas URL:
http://ac6v.com/antprojects.htm#STANT
AND
http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?item=7571

Outsmarting -- Don't buy into an HOA Community
Think Ahead --- An HOA can adapt a no antenna rule anytime they want
Have Big Bucks to fight it in court -- Most HOA's have deep pockets

--
73 From The Wilderness Keyboard

Um, not exactly. If a neighborhood were to suddenly enact some sort of
HOA,
I believe any pre-existing antennas would have to be "grandfathered" in.
Hey, I
moved in next to a cow pasture that was in the city limits.
Now some 4-eyed wimps would want to try to make the
farmer get rid of his cows. Couldn't! When the city
annexed the neighborhood, they had to take the cows too
........they refused to MOOOOOOOOOOOOVE! (Sorry, I had to do that). The
cows stayed. Good neigh-
bors, too. Remained until the farmer died and his sons decided to sell
them. Now, they just can't put them back, tho.

Of course, the solution is NOT to move into one of those
HOAs with the blue-haired lady telling what color to paint
your shutters. Once you do, you are stuck. Kinda like those folks that
move in next to an AIRPORT and then
expect to get PAID because of the noise. I have no sympathy for them. I
choose NOT to live in such a place. And I get all the convenience of
city
living and the
atmosphere of the country: a grassy meadow (former pasture), lots of
wood
s,
dead end street, close in, yet
very quiet, deer, owls, geese, foxes, and raccoons--which I could do
without, BTW. AND all the antennas I
want!


Jerry
K4KWH
"

"Midwest Kid" wrote in message
news:U7Byb.271075$275.966105@attbi_s53...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
news
The problem is that in some places in this country finding an area
without
CCRs that will mean an unreasonably long communte to work.

That's my point. It seems more and more, no one is willing to compromise.
Hams want no CC&R and have everything want. Scanner people want what they
want. Short-wave people want what they want. My commute is 20 miles. I
would be fine with driving 30. Some people can't stand that, so they live
in vinyl villages and in urban areas. Some people think 10 miles or more
of
a drive to work is horrible. I don't see how these people would survive
if
they had not found their little niche a few decades ago. Would they just
be
bitter? I know that if I want to live rural, I have to look at almost a
30
mile drive. So? I save my money and take care of my car. If it's that
big
of deal, buy a Honda. Of course then there are the rich folks who can
never
been seen in a Honda. Those are the people I tell to go buy an Acura!!

I have seen this attitude more and more with the younger generation. No
home less than 5 years old. Fancy SUVs, etc etc. Live paycheck to
paycheck. These are actually the CC&R cops you people talk about. Always
bitching about so and so violating this and that.....only because they
think
their home is going to double in value in 10 years. Me, I hope to live as
rural as possible. Even if that means my ham can put up 500 towers.
Depending on what it does/doesn't do to my electronics and his/her
attitude
after I let them know about it, will determine if I see them as friend or
foe. Hams serve a purpose, a good one....but this doesn't mean they
should
use some law to skirt the rules of a contract they were never forced into.

And they shouldn't have to put up with people moving in
long before the ham did and using "some" idiot CCR crap
to make him take down his tower(s).

Jerry

Well if I am not mistaken --- PRB-1 is NOT applicable to HOA's
Only municipal, county, etc

--
73 From The Wilderness Keyboard
"Jerry Oxendine" wrote in message
...

"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message
news:f02zb.640$yf.222@fed1read01...
Au Contraire -- a ham here who had an antenna up for years was told that
the
HOA voted it an eyesore and he was to take it down --He pleaded
"Grandfathering" and a long legal battle ensued and he lost. The CC&R
was
not on antennas -- but on an "obnoxious structure"

--
73 From The Wilderness Keyboard

Then it would have gone to Federal court where I would've used PRB-1.
This
is a federal statute that requires that communities (municipal, county,
etc)
make
reasonable accomodation for amateur antennas. I would
bet neither you or I have all the facts you are relating because IF that
antenna had been in place for "years"
as you say, I still believe it would have to be grand-fathered. But
because
some muckety mucks move in
after *I* have had a tower for years (17) I must now remove it? Well,
they'll have to show me the hard way.

Eventually, the comformity crowd just may have to stick out their lips and
bear it, because there is an antenna bill
before Congress that *may* cause the blue-hairs heart failure! It will
mean
that HOAs will have to make the same *reasonable* accomodations as local
governments.
Why? Because Amateur Radio is considered a part of America's
communications
infrastructure and has been proven a valuable asset. While it is,
foremost,
a hobby,
many people never consider will happen when towers fall,
a tornado strikes, or even a forest fire strikes. Those yuppy cell phones
aren't worth a tinker's dam (no, not 'damn'), your computer doesn't work
without power or
phone lines, and what's left? Ham Radio, *some* ES
comms, Civil Air Patrol, et al. And who will cry "foul" first? The same
air-headed HOA people so hell-bent
to get rid of "ugly" antennas. The same ones that will
scream "I WANT MY PHONE AND TV BACK ON"!
"How can I find out if my mother in the next town is OK"? And you,
likely, won't find out! Because you
ran off the neighbor that *could've* helped. You embarked on this power
trip. Das Shutzstassen (SS)und Dummkopten. Ya, Idioten!
And your pleas will be met with exactly what you wanted:


.....................................Silence


J

"Jerry Oxendine" wrote in message
...

"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message
news:7yryb.294$yf.196@fed1read01...
Outwitting -- use Stealth Antennas URL:
http://ac6v.com/antprojects.htm#STANT
AND
http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?item=7571

Outsmarting -- Don't buy into an HOA Community
Think Ahead --- An HOA can adapt a no antenna rule anytime they want
Have Big Bucks to fight it in court -- Most HOA's have deep pockets

--
73 From The Wilderness Keyboard

Um, not exactly. If a neighborhood were to suddenly enact some sort
of
HOA,
I believe any pre-existing antennas would have to be "grandfathered"
in.
Hey, I
moved in next to a cow pasture that was in the city limits.
Now some 4-eyed wimps would want to try to make the
farmer get rid of his cows. Couldn't! When the city
annexed the neighborhood, they had to take the cows too
........they refused to MOOOOOOOOOOOOVE! (Sorry, I had to do that).
The
cows stayed. Good neigh-
bors, too. Remained until the farmer died and his sons decided to
sell
them. Now, they just can't put them back, tho.

Of course, the solution is NOT to move into one of those
HOAs with the blue-haired lady telling what color to paint
your shutters. Once you do, you are stuck. Kinda like those folks
that
move in next to an AIRPORT and then
expect to get PAID because of the noise. I have no sympathy for them.
I
choose NOT to live in such a place. And I get all the convenience of
city
living and the
atmosphere of the country: a grassy meadow (former pasture), lots of
wood
s,
dead end street, close in, yet
very quiet, deer, owls, geese, foxes, and raccoons--which I could do
without, BTW. AND all the antennas I
want!


Jerry
K4KWH
"

Jerry Oxendine wrote:
I am too feisty and independent to accept domination.

So Jerry, what are you going to do when 51% of the citizens are on
welfare and vote that the other 49% (including you and me) must
support them. Don't you believe in democracy?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

wrote in message ...
Frank I have been reading the various posting in this thread. And
some
of the posting here disgust me. Why do some of these people call
themselves American's? America is supposed to be the land of the
FREE.

By far, this posting by you is the best.

I have read most of the articles in the second web site you listed.

It's about time America wakes up. The world doesn't revolve around
HOA's
or there darn rules.

As a veteran I have flown the Stars and Strips at our home since I
returned from the military (35+ years ago) and will do until I expire.
I, unlike some in this thread are proud of my country. I am proud to
fly
the Stars & Strips over our home. I am proud to have served in the
military of these United States of America.

I am also proud to have served in the military only to protect the
rights of HOA's and their over baring officials, to forbid Americans
from flying there FLAG on a poll erected for this purpose only. And
they
call themselves patriotic Americans........ya.



Democracy is no more perfect than the human race. The guys who wrote
and approved the Constitution and Bill of Rights knew individual rights
could get voted away.

I'm not sure why some Homeowner's Associations have a problem with
religious monuments, flags or flagpoles, or the First Amendment rights
most of take for granted. The people who advocate such positions seem
remarkably shy in public, especially around reporters.

When I first heard of the George Andres case, I thought there must be
some mistake. Maybe the reporters didn't get the story quite right and
the whole misunderstanding would be cleared up quickly. I was surprised
to learn how long this damn thing has been dragged out, despite the
support Mr. Andres has received from the public and the Florida
politicians. I was just as surprised to learn that there's several
similiar cases out there. Telling any American he can't raise a flag or
put up a religious monument on his own property is an abuse of power.
Telling it to a man who has served his country compounds the injustice.

I suppose we should remember that a small percentage of us are real
SOBs. A small percentage of governments are, or will be, run by SOBs.
That's democracy.

That's why I want my government to limited by some sort of respect for
individual rights.

Frank Dresser

There a new thought for this thread that has not been discussed and I'd
like to open the subject.

Bill and Mary, in their mid 50s, buy a home in a CC&R community and are
quite happy with the community and the CC&Rs.

Ten years later, Bill retires and a friend introduces him to Ham Radio.
Bill finds it fascinating and after several months passes his exam and
becomes W9BILL. By this time he has forgotten many details of the CC&Rs.

He proceeds to erect a simple dipole antenna in the back of his property
using trees along the property line for antenna support.

The HOA police show up! What are Bill's options: He is retired and his
income is lower than when employed so moving is a very difficult option?

So Jerry, what are you going to do when 51% of the citizens are on
welfare and vote that the other 49% (including you and me) must
support them. Don't you believe in democracy?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



That would be ideal - socialism, everybody living in paradise. Just one small
problem, it doesn't work on people.

Or you put 2% of welfare people on no fat, no cholesterol vegetarian diet and
soon the balance would tip back to sanity.

Yuri

Frank Dresser wrote:

SNIP
....
Democracy is no more perfect than the human race. The guys who wrote
and approved the Constitution and Bill of Rights knew individual rights
could get voted away.

I'm not sure why some Homeowner's Associations have a problem with
religious monuments, flags or flagpoles, or the First Amendment rights
most of take for granted. The people who advocate such positions seem
remarkably shy in public, especially around reporters.

When I first heard of the George Andres case, ...

SNIP

Frank, regarding your comments on a Democracy I'd like to make a simple
observation.

We in the USA do NOT live in a Democracy, thank God! Contrary to what
the newspapers say, TV moguls say, the Democratic Political Party says,
and numerous candidates for political office say ... We live in a
Representative Republic!

A Democracy is the most tyrannical form of government!!!

Deacon Dave, W1MCE

No, they shouldn't. It's just like the people that build houses at the end
of a runway then complain about the noise.
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"Jerry Oxendine" wrote in message
...
snippage

KGA should not be forced to move because of some people's
ignorance or short-sightedness.

IMHO...a tyrannical form of government would be something from the
Hitler regime, not the Democracy we are blessed with!

Dave Shrader wrote:


Frank Dresser wrote:

SNIP
...
Democracy is no more perfect than the human race. The guys who wrote

and approved the Constitution and Bill of Rights knew individual rights
could get voted away.

I'm not sure why some Homeowner's Associations have a problem with
religious monuments, flags or flagpoles, or the First Amendment rights
most of take for granted. The people who advocate such positions seem
remarkably shy in public, especially around reporters.

When I first heard of the George Andres case, ...


SNIP

Frank, regarding your comments on a Democracy I'd like to make a simple
observation.

We in the USA do NOT live in a Democracy, thank God! Contrary to what
the newspapers say, TV moguls say, the Democratic Political Party says,
and numerous candidates for political office say ... We live in a
Representative Republic!

A Democracy is the most tyrannical form of government!!!

Deacon Dave, W1MCE