Is there any major advantage of mounting a Butternut vertical on top of
my house which would put it around 45 feet versus ground mounting it?
Seems like for years I've worked lots of stations with ground mounted
verticals. So long as I've got lots of radials I would have a low
angle of radiation, yes?

Thanks,

Chuck
W1CEW

Chuck

Chuck W. wrote:
Is there any major advantage of mounting a Butternut vertical on top of
my house which would put it around 45 feet versus ground mounting it?
Seems like for years I've worked lots of stations with ground mounted
verticals. So long as I've got lots of radials I would have a low
angle of radiation, yes?

Thanks,

Chuck
W1CEW


I have used elevated 4-square vertical arrays and elevated verticals for years
on 40 and 80 meters. Performance seems just fine on them. However one very
serious issue remains, as far as my experience is concerned, for using them.
You, MUST provide some decent lighting protection for them as to how to avoid
the step voltage that appears on the whole system because of the elevated
radial and feed point positions above ground during strikes and even nearby
hits. Even a ten foot height above ground for a 40 meter vertical, with four
tuned elevated radials at that height, is a huge voltage point up from true
ground, considering the large RF currents in the strike. If your feed line is
in any position to be involved in that elevated voltage position and can carry
part of the strike dissapation back into your shack or home, you can really get
hurt.


I found out a long time ago, that the best way to protect my equipment with
elevated HF verticals is to carry the entire feed system back to ground level
where I can incorporate Polyphaser or other gas tube protection at that same
ground level I'm using to sink the strike at the arrays. Then I bring the feed
line back to the physical structure at GROUND level with appropriate protection
at the structure site entrance, sinked to ground as well there.


Since incorporating that technique, for many years now, and I take an average
of a direct hit on my 80 meter array at least once every year or so, I never
have lost anything on the HF station, even though it is on line 24X7 all the
time, and some parts of it are remote operatable as well. With complete pig
iron equipped industrial rack computer systems and so on, even they have
survived completely for years now that way too. But not switching power supply
stuff, as I've found out sadly.


I take more damage, whatever, from direct hits on the neighboring power lines
that sink back to my facility good ground systems, at this point. The worst
damage for years is oddly on the phone system lines. Even with protection at
the entrance point, there is still enough inductace ramp-up on these low level
circuits, that I'll see blown fuses in the phone line protectors from time to
time, and rarely, even yet, modem failures, even with that done!


Again, my best advice if you want to go your way with the big elevated
vertical, is to carefully consider how to mitigate the strike effects for not
only your ham gear, but the rest of the dwelling as well. Remember, even ten
or twenty feet is a real length for getting surge voltage, when true ground is
underneath it. And where things are connected at a junction point which can
carry part of the surge current off on a 'parallel' path to a different ground
sink point you might not have considered.


W5WQN

"Mike Luther" skrev i meddelandet
...
Chuck

Chuck W. wrote:
Is there any major advantage of mounting a Butternut vertical on top of
my house which would put it around 45 feet versus ground mounting it?
Seems like for years I've worked lots of stations with ground mounted
verticals. So long as I've got lots of radials I would have a low
angle of radiation, yes?

Thanks,

Chuck
W1CEW



Check this page:
http://www.qsl.net/df3lp/projects/vertical/index.html

"Do not mount groundplane antennas at heights between 0.25 and 1.25
wavelength. At those levels above ground most of the energy will be radiated
at angles of 27° to 45° into the ionosphere. This phenomenon seems to be
independent to the number of radials or other counterpoises. Further
simulations indicates that this is true for all other variants of vertical
antenna systems too. "

73
SM6PXJ Chris

CA wrote:
"Mike Luther" skrev i meddelandet
...
Chuck

Chuck W. wrote:
Is there any major advantage of mounting a Butternut vertical on top of
my house which would put it around 45 feet versus ground mounting it?
Seems like for years I've worked lots of stations with ground mounted
verticals. So long as I've got lots of radials I would have a low
angle of radiation, yes?

Thanks,

Chuck
W1CEW



Check this page:
http://www.qsl.net/df3lp/projects/vertical/index.html

"Do not mount groundplane antennas at heights between 0.25 and 1.25
wavelength. At those levels above ground most of the energy will be radiated
at angles of 27° to 45° into the ionosphere. This phenomenon seems tobe
independent to the number of radials or other counterpoises. Further
simulations indicates that this is true for all other variants of vertical
antenna systems too. "

73
SM6PXJ Chris


Thanks!

Looks like a groundmounted vertical is the way to go for low-angle DX.
I'll watch out for the lightning as well!

Looks like I have an opportunity to purchase a Butternut HF6VX 80-10
vertical with the CPK counterpoise for maybe $340 for the whole thing.
Seem like a reasonable thing to do? Decent antenna? Otherwise I have
my 80 meter full wave loop at about 50 feet. I'm assuming the vertical
would outperform the loop for DX on 75 and 40 meter bands.

-Chuck
W1CEW

On 16 Nov 2005 16:42:30 -0800, "Chuck W." wrote:

Looks like I have an opportunity to purchase a Butternut HF6VX 80-10
vertical with the CPK counterpoise for maybe $340 for the whole thing.
Seem like a reasonable thing to do? Decent antenna? Otherwise I have
my 80 meter full wave loop at about 50 feet. I'm assuming the vertical
would outperform the loop for DX on 75 and 40 meter bands.

Hi Chuck,

The bottom one or two bands of multiband verticals tend to be
disappointing in performance - or so report many to this forum.

If you do get it, don't take the loop down.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:42:30 -0500, Chuck W. wrote:

Looks like I have an opportunity to purchase a Butternut HF6VX 80-10
vertical with the CPK counterpoise for maybe $340 for the whole thing.
Seem like a reasonable thing to do? Decent antenna? Otherwise I have
my 80 meter full wave loop at about 50 feet. I'm assuming the vertical
would outperform the loop for DX on 75 and 40 meter bands.

-Chuck
W1CEW


HI Chuck,

Don't know about 80 & 40 but it will help fill in the nulls in the loops
pattern on the upper bands also.. I'm with the other commentor though
don't take the loop down.
73 Dave
KC1DI


--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Hi Richard,

Yes, I've been very pleased with the loop, worked about 30 or 40
countries in the last year on it, mostly on 20 and 18 meters, but it
does well on 40 as well, being fed with balanced line. According to
EZNEC it does well on 15 and 10, but with the current sunspot cycle who
knows. With the all-too-few openings on 6 meters this summer, I did
have some pretty good luck, though I could tell the yagis could hear
quite a bit more than I could.

73,

Chuck

Looks like I have an opportunity to purchase a Butternut HF6VX 80-10
vertical with the CPK counterpoise for maybe $340 for the whole thing.
Seem like a reasonable thing to do? Decent antenna? Otherwise I have
my 80 meter full wave loop at about 50 feet. I'm assuming the vertical
would outperform the loop for DX on 75 and 40 meter bands.

If it is a used antenna, that seems overpriced. You can buy a new
one for less than that (without the CPK). You can easily make your own
radials for much cheaper.

I've used HF6V's at several qth's. It's a good antenna on 40 if you
have enough radials. On 80 it's not that great. But it will be useful in
addition to the loop.

Tor
N4OGW

Yes, the lowest bands don't work so well on the Butternut, but you
should be able to find a used one for considerably less than that
price. (I've been seeing them go used for $75-$125).

I've had a Butternut HF6V on my roof for some years now, which wound up
being about 15 feet above the ground, with one radial for 80M, and
about four radials for 40-Meters (and the higher bands). I've had this
antenna at five different locations over the years.
Using it, I've made 5BDXCC (plus 30M DXCC). I only have about 185
countries on 80-Meters with it, and only about 260 countries on
40-Meters with it. Then there's 160-Meters - only about 40 countries so
far.

Some day, I hope to have a real antenna for the lower bands. Right now,
the Butternut is down since there's some building construction going on
at my home, and all I have up now is an 80-Meter Inverted-Vee, which is
now my "all band" antenna. It's up about 25 feet above ground in the
center, five feet above ground on the ends, it's fed with 450-ohm
ladder line. Sometimes it takes me four or five calls to get through
some of the pileups! (H40 on 80-Meters, KH5 on 20M RTTY, etc. in the
last week).

YMMV.....

LJ