wrote:
I have one problem... I can only get stuff from Home Depot, about 50
miles away.

If you don't have access to ordering over the internet,
how are you posting to this newsgroup?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

wrote:

I have no trees, streelamps, telephone poles, or anything higher than a
7 foot trailer. That was why I was considering a vertical. For
practical purposes anything higher than 40 feet is forbidden and 25
foot is as high as I practically dare do.

Vertical is probably the way to go for you.

From what I understand,
dipoles are not effective below 1/2 wavelength above the dirt,

Almost true. The (misnamed?) takeoff angle of a vertical antenna is
usually lower than a dipole that is lower than optimum. However, if the
vertical is not terribly efficient, it may not work as well as a dipole
that is more efficient. That is Why I think TOA is a misnomer. Antennas
radiate in all directions. It's just that the signal strength is higher
or lower at certain angles.



but
verticals can work well fairly close to the dirt if they have to. From
what I hear inverted vees are slightly better than dipoles but slightly
worse than verticals at low altitude.

Well, they are a little different anyway.


My wife really doesn't care about money as much as she cares about
waste. If I can make my setup working with the stuff I already bought
then great... At this point I am considering just throwing in the towel
and raising a 20 foot iron pipe to mount a 20 meter inverted vee...
sigh.

20m is my favorite band, followed by 40 then 30.


I think I'd be making that V right about now.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Excuse me very much, but isn't shipping for exotic alloy pipe going to
be more expensive than the pipe itself?

That's not negative, that's practical!

The Eternal Squire

wrote:

Excuse me very much, but isn't shipping for exotic alloy pipe going to
be more expensive than the pipe itself?

It's not "pipe", it's thin-walled very light weight high-strength
aluminum TUBING. which is about as "exotic" as CW in ham circles. Don't
ask us what the shipping costs would be, push back yer keyboard and
dial Texas towers @ (800) 272-3467 and ask them.

As to your problem with hundred-mile round trips to your nearest Home
Despot sto I have two of 'em 15 +/- minutes from here and except
for some occasional stainless nuts, bolts and cheap wire they're
useless as far as decent sources of antenna materials go.

The Mother of All REAL Hardware Stores is McMaster-Carr. 3,000 + page
of industrial-quality bits and pieces which make great antenna parts
only a phone call away. They have staineless u-bolts on top of
stainless u-bolts, aluninum stock for adapter plates, all of it . .

http://www.mcmaster.com/

(330) 342-6100 for help with finding what you want if their website
catalog comes up overwhelming.

If you're averse to online purchasing that's OK, order all your antenna
"stuff" by telephone, then sit on yer butt and wait to have it dropped
on you by UPS or FedEx within a couple days at most.

Ditto DXengineering: (800)-777-0703

That's not negative, that's practical!

You have problem with your priorities and what's up out here in
practical ham antenna realities.

The Eternal Squire

w3rv

My suggestion would be the following:

Cut that buried 1" pipe about a foot over the ground, to serve as a
ground support for your new antenna.

Get a heavier steel pipe (ca 1"3/4 - 2") that will fit over the 1" pipe,
and perhaps 10 foot long.

Get a cheap fiberglass (not carbon) fishing rod ca 18 feet long, (1/4
wave on 20m)

Tape a 1/4 wire radiator to the fishing rod, and feed with coax at
bottom of rod.

Attach fishing rod securely to the top of your new mast pipe.

Rise the pipe and fishing rod assembly vertically and guy at the point
where the fishing rod is attached.

Now you can run elevated wire radials along the guy ropes, and you
should probably also ground the coax shield to the mast pipe at the feed
point.

Enjoy!

73 de Hans, SM3PXG




wrote:
Ground system:

5 foot of 1 inch diameter galvanized iron pipe, halfway stuck in ground
with concrete.


9 foot carbon fiber fishing rod, handle epoxied and inserted into pipe
a wire is attached to copper pipe and run up to end of rod.
Hot end of coax connected to bottom of copper pipe



Rope guys are econnected to the top part of the shaft coupler, as the
middle of the shaft coupler is predicted to be weakest point.



Sigh,

The Eternal Squire

Now THAT's a practical idea...

Thanks!

The Eternal Squire

Hi,

Given the circumstances you have.. I would give some thought about putting
up a vertically mounted Small Transmitting loop such as the MFJ. Will it
work as good as a Vertical? , not one that has a good radial system under
it and a clear shout at the horizon.. but it sounds to me like it might be
just right for your needs.. Give them a Look I built one here and used it
for a couple of years mounted only 3 feet above ground and it worked
surpizingly well , considering it's size about 3' in diamiter . If I were
in your situation I'd mount it about 1 or 2 feet above the trailer roof.
Hope this helps,
73 DAVE KC1DI


On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:28:26 -0500, wrote:

Hi,

It seems that my location boasts 60 to 110 mph winds on a regular
basis. I had put up a 1/4 wavelength 20m vertical with 1/8 wavelength
radials elevated at 7 feet, with rope guys... and the wind blew it
apart like so much tin foil!

Does anyone know of a decent commercial design for less than $1000 for
a free standing 30 to 40 foot support that can take this darn wind???

Thanks,

The Eternal Squire




--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

I have no trees, streelamps, telephone poles, or anything higher than a
7 foot trailer. That was why I was considering a vertical. For
practical purposes anything higher than 40 feet is forbidden and 25
foot is as high as I practically dare do.

You could use a mobile antenna on the trailer and have a decent
signal.

From what I understand,
dipoles are not effective below 1/2 wavelength above the dirt, but
verticals can work well fairly close to the dirt if they have to. From
what I hear inverted vees are slightly better than dipoles but slightly
worse than verticals at low altitude.

It all depends where you are talking. For NVIS, even a low antenna
will do ok. I've run quite a few low dipoles in portable use, and
never
had any problems. 1/2 wave up? If that were true, my dipoles here
at the house would be no good. They are only at 40 ft. Thats barely
more than a 1/4 wave up on 40m. 1/8 wave on 80m... I have no
trouble at all, and that includes dx. I can work dx on 80m with only
100w no problem.
In general, dipoles are better than inv vees at any altitude. At low
heights, you have less ground losses, and the antenna is higher
above ground in general. But, thats not to say an inv vee won't work
ok. It will. A flat dipole is best though, if perfection is desired.
Slightly less than low verticals? Who can say. It could be much
worse, or much better, depending on the quality of the vertical,
the band and path used, etc...In general when camping, I'd
rather run a low dipole, than a ground mount vertical with few
radials. Any vertical not ground mounted, I consider a ground plane,
and it must have resonant radials. Again, it could be better, worse,
or about the same... :/ Depends on band, path, etc.. The low dipole
would smoke the vertical on NVIS on 40/80, but the vertical
might win to long haul dx late at night if it's any good.


My wife really doesn't care about money as much as she cares about
waste. If I can make my setup working with the stuff I already bought
then great... At this point I am considering just throwing in the towel
and raising a 20 foot iron pipe to mount a 20 meter inverted vee...
sigh.

Probably what you should have done in the first place...:/ Would
work better than most anything else you will likely try. I would
have made my usual fanned paralleled dipoles fed with a single
coax if I could squeeze the room, and had a place to tie the ends
off. Sounds like you don't really....

20m is my favorite band, followed by 40 then 30.

Why not use the "no radial" verticals? IE: cushcraft R7, and others
of it's ilk? Those are good for what you are trying to do...
And they will usually work better than a vertical that needs
radials, but doesn't have all it needs due to a limited location.
Yes, you can use helical radials, radiator, but don't it expect it
to be a world beater. A simple dipole would probably eat it for lunch
and be cheaper and easier to build. I've used quicky dipoles portable,

no higher than my own height, and had no trouble talking. And that
was mainly on 75 and 40. One time I did that only running a yeasu
ft-7 with 10w output, and had no trouble. That was at Lake Amistad,
out in the psuedo desert. Not many trees where we were. I found a
tall 6-8 ft stick, and use that to support the dipole. The ends were
tied off to low bushes, or whatever.. Even with 10w, I was averaging
S9 or so to most people around the state. Not too bad. Would
have been 10-20 over 9 with 100w probably.
MK

On 5 Dec 2005 13:35:11 -0800, wrote:

I have one problem... I can only get stuff from Home Depot, about 50
miles away.

The Eternal Squire

Texas Towers, for aluminum tubing, and The Wireman, for any kind of
antenna paraphernalia, both have web sites, and phone numbers.

Jeez...

bob
k5qwg

I actually found what I hope is a solution. The KANGA 33' Telescoping
Fiberglass mast for $99 is guaranteed against breaking or shattering in
winds such as I might encounter, free replacement of broken sections if
this is so. Weighs only 4 lbs, base is 2 inches. K1CRA, the
distributor, suggested that all I needed to do was mount this against
my pipe mount with a 2X4 and U-bolts. He also distributes a sealing
agent for permanent installations. With this, he said, all I needed to
do was run wire up the mast and work against my pipe mount as connected
to the overall ground systems.

Sometimes it is the obvious which is the hardest to conceive of. I
always though high winds and high heights always needed big iron (or
copper), but I never thought that something made of an aerospace
material would be within my reach... let alone that of a ten foot Pole
or a seven foot Texan...

I'll let you know how it goes...

Thanks,

The Eternal Squire