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#1
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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
its raining, its going to rain all weekend, i already caught up my qsl card
replies, what can i do for fun this weekend... I know, troll a fight on r.r.a.a! How about it you guys, you up for a return bout of lumps vs distributions? how about adding powers, that one hasn't come up recently?? maybe a quick argument over why kirchoff's current equation doesn't work with distributed systems?? Or could we drum up a good fight about fractal-quad-yagi efficiency, or how cfa's can't work the way they are claimed to? Come on, there must be a good one in there somewhere to get you guys stirred up for a weekend! Who wants to be the first one to tell me i can't use 75 ohm hardline without some fancy matching system?? Or why my SWR meter is no good when i do? Come on, just a little fight??? |
#2
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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
SWR METERS ONLY INDICATE FORWARD CW POWER AND REVERSE CB JARGON INTO
THE CROSSED-FIELD FRAKTAL YAGI IF THE IMPEDANCE OF THE SLOW-WAVE LOADING COIL TRANSMISSION LINE IS EXACTLY 49.0003000+j3.50003000 OHMS PLUS OR MINUS 39%! 73, Dan N3OX |
#3
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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
ALL RIGHT! thats the kind of assertion that should stir things up. I like
the 'slow-wave' part, thats a good one... maybe we should compare it to one of those faster than light antennas in the patent archives and see if we can get something going? wrote in message oups.com... SWR METERS ONLY INDICATE FORWARD CW POWER AND REVERSE CB JARGON INTO THE CROSSED-FIELD FRAKTAL YAGI IF THE IMPEDANCE OF THE SLOW-WAVE LOADING COIL TRANSMISSION LINE IS EXACTLY 49.0003000+j3.50003000 OHMS PLUS OR MINUS 39%! 73, Dan N3OX |
#4
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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Dave wrote:
ALL RIGHT! thats the kind of assertion that should stir things up. I like the 'slow-wave' part, thats a good one... maybe we should compare it to one of those faster than light antennas in the patent archives and see if we can get something going? How about a loss of de-Corum...... ;^) Sorry Cecil, I'm a sucker for a bad pun! - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - |
#5
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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Mike Coslo wrote:
How about a loss of de-Corum...... ;^) Sorry Cecil, I'm a sucker for a bad pun! I'm not sure K1AON and KB1EUD would appreciate your pun. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
#6
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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Funny thing is that I'm down with the slow-wave loading coil thing.
Maxwell's equations are your friend... not a very nice friend when Bessel functions are involved, but... Faster than light, though? Maybe the phase velocity in some tricky cryogenic world, but I dunno... Haven't seen much on superconducting antennas here... I read a paper once with a superconducting magloop but they forgot to make the matching network superconducting too. Let's get the "bizarre but REAL" antenna thread going. Wouldn't you like to have a QRP CW rig with a 3" magloop for 20m on the top? The thermos full of liquid nitrogen is kind of a pain to lug around... Anyone built a "genetically" designed ham antenna yet? Might be a good way to go for the "I have 50 feet between two trees to put up an 80m dipole" crowd. Maybe we could develop a combined performance+aesthetics genetic algorithm to design efficient shortened vertical dipoles that look like nice pieces of modern art and have a nice low voltage section to run the coax out... you run the electromagnetic algorithm, weed out the weak designs, then you have your neighbor click the most attractive five and throw the rest out, and repeat! -Dan |
#8
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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
"Dave" wrote in message . .. its raining, its going to rain all weekend, i already caught up my qsl card replies, what can i do for fun this weekend... I know, troll a fight on r.r.a.a! How about it you guys, you up for a return bout of lumps vs distributions? how about adding powers, that one hasn't come up recently?? maybe a quick argument over why kirchoff's current equation doesn't work with distributed systems?? Or could we drum up a good fight about fractal-quad-yagi efficiency, or how cfa's can't work the way they are claimed to? Come on, there must be a good one in there somewhere to get you guys stirred up for a weekend! Who wants to be the first one to tell me i can't use 75 ohm hardline without some fancy matching system?? Or why my SWR meter is no good when i do? Come on, just a little fight??? Weekend fight promotion follows: If a chicken-and-a-half can lay and egg-and-a-half in a day-and-a-half, how long would it take one regular chicken to lay a dozen eggs? Most-favorable consideration will be given to answers submitted with a valid Paypal account number and password. It need not be your own. Email answers to (There, that should about do it.) |
#9
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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
There's a good fight brewing in QEX magazine land. Eric, K8LV, wrote a
pretty good article on directional wattmeters. But he spent a lot of space asserting that the notion of forward and reflected power in a transmission line is merely for intuitive convenience, isn't real, and should be abandoned in favor of unidirectional power flow and lumped analysis at a single point. Whoo Hoo. The letters will be fun. Especially if Eric attempts to extend his assertion to a case not-as-special, such as not-steady-state or a point in 3D space. Too bad it wasn't here. Bet we'd get a couple dozen posts before the weekend's out. Anyone want to take Eric's side? 73, Glenn AC7ZN |
#10
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FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
wrote:
There's a good fight brewing in QEX magazine land. Eric, K8LV, wrote a pretty good article on directional wattmeters. But he spent a lot of space asserting that the notion of forward and reflected power in a transmission line is merely for intuitive convenience, isn't real, and should be abandoned in favor of unidirectional power flow and lumped analysis at a single point. K8LV is like the person who is satisfied with the Sun God riding his chariot across the sky every day as a model of reality. He seems to believe in a Standing Wave God who wills standing waves into existence without the necessity for a forward traveling wave and a rearward traveling wave to exist. It reminds me of what Einstein said about models of reality needing to be simple, but not too simple. Over the years, I have challenged anyone on this newsgroup to create a standing wave in a single source system without having the existence of a forward wave and a reflected wave. Nobody has furnished any proof that standing waves are possible in a single source system without the existence of forward and reflected waves. Reflected energy is readily apparent using a time domain reflectometer. Reflected power is easily detected and dissipated using a signal generator with a circulator and load. A bit of modulation proves that the reflected wave has made a round trip to the mismatched load and back to the circulator load. With the following example, I have shown that, during steady-state, there are 300 joules of energy in the transmission line that have not yet reached the load. 100W---one second long 50 ohm lossless feedline---291.5 ohms Pfor=200W-- --Pref=100W There are no impedance discontinuities between the source and the load and EM energy travels at the speed of light. The 300 joules cannot exist anywhere except in the forward and reflected waves. Without the existence of forward and reflected waves, there is nothing to support standing waves. That the energy moving in each direction is difficult to separate is no reason to assert that it doesn't exist. According to the IEEE definition of power, the *potential* for doing work is power. The 300 joules stored in the above transmission line have the potential for doing work after the source is powered down. That the work actually performed is not useful work is irrelevant. Anyone who doubts the existence of reflected energy should do a second by second analysis of the above example starting at power up. The technical facts become undeniable after a few seconds. Whoo Hoo. The letters will be fun. Especially if Eric attempts to extend his assertion to a case not-as-special, such as not-steady-state or a point in 3D space. Too bad it wasn't here. Bet we'd get a couple dozen posts before the weekend's out. Anyone want to take Eric's side? K8LV even contradicts himself in his own article. He says the Z0 of the line "literally forces all power flow to occur in 50-ohm waves on the line". In the above example, those 300 joules per second are necessarily flowing in the one second long line since they cannot stand still. Where are they if, as K8LV asserts, the Z0 of the line is forcing a V/I ratio of 50 ohms? They can exist in only one place, in the 200W forward wave and 100W reflected wave each of which forces a V/I ratio of 50 ohms, just as K8LV asserts. Exactly the same thing happens when standing EM waves of light are formed in free space. Let's see K8LV explain that one without the existence of forward traveling light waves and rearward traveling light waves. How do these quotes agree with standing waves of light? "... the forward and reverse waves do not exist separately ..." I think I can hear a multitude of physicists laughing at the assertion that standing waves of light do not require the separate existence of forward and reverse waves. QEX was interested in publishing an article of mine with light wave examples until they realized the implications of those technical facts. This is just one more example of the dumbing down of amateur radio accompanying the dumbing down of the US educational system in general. Unfortunately, it seems to be a trend that cannot be reversed because it is the biased view being pushed by the ARRL and its supporters. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
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