Noise level between two ant types
 

Cecil Moore wrote:

Tom Donaly wrote:

The air always has ions in it.


I hope you understand the difference between isolated ions
existing in the air and the air being ionized into a
conducting path. Isolated ions is not corona.

Nevertheless, air is in a constant state of conduction. It may
only be picoamps per square meter but it still exists and it's
what causes the earth to be a lousy capacitor.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Noise level between two ant types
 

Cecil Moore wrote:

Gene Fuller wrote:

Voltage is often poorly defined since it requires a reference.


Yes, and the web page reference provided a well defined
reference between two electrodes with known capacitance.
There is *always* a relationship between electric field
strength and voltage. I disagree that they are unrelated
as you implied.

I don't see how ionization could occur at
zero volts which you seem to imply is a possibility.


Huh?? Did I say that?


No, but you implied it when you said "ionization threshold
has *nothing* to do with voltage". Nothing is zero so you
implied an ionization threshold is completely unrelated and
independent of volts. Do you want to amend that statement?
Maybe: "The relationship between field strength and voltage
is sometimes difficult to determine."?

If I remember right, your "Dr. Static" thought that you can't
have a voltage without the presence of a conductor. You ought to
read what these guys write before you quote them.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Noise level between two ant types
 

Gene Fuller wrote:
If every interaction between objects requires that somehow the charge is
transferred to keep things "identical", how did those nasty dust
particles get charged in the first place?

Huh? It is you who says the dust particles carry exactly the
same charge as the antenna they are encountering. Otherwise,
there is current flow in the antenna system which you deny.

I am not arguing about antenna noise. I am questioning your misuse of
physics. There are no charge equalization laws.

Huh? Place a charge on a wire. Doesn't current flow in
both directions until the charge is equalized throughout
the conductor? Did my college professors lie to me?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Noise level between two ant types
 

Tom Donaly wrote:
Anyway, you're still not addressing the real
issue: can you tell whether or not it's raining solely by
listening to the static noise on your antenna?

No, but in Queen Creek, AZ, I could look outside and not see
a cloud in sight. I could look at the weather radar and
see there wasn't a cloud over the entire state of Arizona.
I probably could be convinced that static electricity
during rain or snow was corona if I had not experienced
the clear-sky charged-particle effect in Arizona. I suspect
that neither you nor W8JI has ever experienced the clear-sky
charged-particle effect and therefore deny its existence.
I know better from my own personal experience as do others.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Noise level between two ant types
 

Cecil Moore wrote:

I've never said I have ever heard a single particle
discharge. It was someone else who said that. I agree
with the 2000 ARRL Handbook when they said it was
"almost continuous". I have certainly heard that
"hash-type noise" get worse with wind speed. I wish
I had made S-meter measurements.

Were having a 'Santa Ana' wind today in
So Cal. High ion concentration. S9+
noise levels on the HF bands. Happens
almost every time we have a 'Santa Ana'
condition.

73, ac6xg

Noise level between two ant types
 

Tom Donaly wrote:
Nevertheless, air is in a constant state of conduction.

Nevertheless, that is *NOT* corona.

You will be glad to hear that Madisonville, TX is
experiencing rather severe corona effects today.
The knife switches that I use to vary the length
of my transmission line are snap, cracklin', and
poppin'. In this high humidity region of Texas,
I am not sure that charged-particle static ever
occurs. However, I am absolutely sure that it
sometimes occurs in Queen Creek, AZ, where I
lived for 11 years.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Noise level between two ant types
 

Jim Kelley wrote:


Cecil Moore wrote:

I've never said I have ever heard a single particle
discharge. It was someone else who said that. I agree
with the 2000 ARRL Handbook when they said it was
"almost continuous". I have certainly heard that
"hash-type noise" get worse with wind speed. I wish
I had made S-meter measurements.


Were having a 'Santa Ana' wind today in So Cal. High ion concentration.
S9+ noise levels on the HF bands. Happens almost every time we have a
'Santa Ana' condition.

73, ac6xg



Hot, dry air off the desert. Just like a clothes dryer. You guys are
suffering from static cling.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Noise level between two ant types
 

Jim Kelley wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
I've never said I have ever heard a single particle
discharge. It was someone else who said that. I agree
with the 2000 ARRL Handbook when they said it was
"almost continuous". I have certainly heard that
"hash-type noise" get worse with wind speed. I wish
I had made S-meter measurements.

Were having a 'Santa Ana' wind today in So Cal. High ion concentration.
S9+ noise levels on the HF bands. Happens almost every time we have a
'Santa Ana' condition.

So Jim, would you say that's corona discharge or dry-air
charged-particle problems?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Noise level between two ant types
 

Tom Donaly wrote:
Hot, dry air off the desert. Just like a clothes dryer. You guys are
suffering from static cling.

"Nevertheless", unrelated to corona.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Noise level between two ant types
 

Jim Kelley wrote:
Were having a 'Santa Ana' wind today in So Cal. High ion concentration.
S9+ noise levels on the HF bands. Happens almost every time we have a
'Santa Ana' condition.

Jim, I forgot to ask. Do you have a bare-wire dipole
with no DC connection between the elements? If so,
does the coax connector ever arc when you disconnect
it from your system?

The first time I encountered this phenomenon in Arizona,
my G5RV coax connector was arcing while connected to
my IC-745. I disconnected the coax from my transceiver
and tossed it on the floor. It woke me up arcing and
scorching my carpet. Shorting the coax conductors
cured the arcing problem.

It was a clear starry night with the wind blowing about
30 mph. I have a hard time diagnosing that as a corona
problem.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp