In article ,
(known to some as FED UP) scribed...

The time has come (and it may indeed have passed) for trying to fix
what ails ham radio.

snippety

The only thing that truly "ails" the amateur radio service is those
who are committed to spreading messages of hate and prejudice against
those who choose a path for getting their license that said spreaders
don't happen to like.

If you're no longer happy with the HOBBY, then find another one.
Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.

*PLONK!*


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
http://www.bluefeathertech.com -- kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t calm
"Salvadore Dali's computer has surreal ports..."

I believe the points made in the Fedup postings are pretty good. It
seems like everytime
anyone objects to anything they are immediately labeled as "spreading
hate and
prejudice."

Truth is, no endeavor of betterment has ever NOT started with self
critique.

I do agree with the writer that hams have become hot house orchids in
this
respect.

Why should anyone not agreeing with you need to find a new hobby? What
gives you more rights?

Finally, for crying out loud, can using contrived words like "arse."
Say
what you mean and mean what you say. If you mean "ass," say ass.

Smokey

The only thing that truly "ails" the amateur radio service is those
who are committed to spreading messages of hate and prejudice against
those who choose a path for getting their license that said spreaders
don't happen to like.

If you're no longer happy with the HOBBY, then find another one.
Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.

"Smokey" wrote in message
...
I believe the points made in the Fedup postings are pretty good. It
seems like everytime
anyone objects to anything they are immediately labeled as "spreading
hate and
prejudice."

Truth is, no endeavor of betterment has ever NOT started with self
critique.

I do agree with the writer that hams have become hot house orchids in
this
respect.

Why should anyone not agreeing with you need to find a new hobby? What
gives you more rights?

Finally, for crying out loud, can using contrived words like "arse."
Say
what you mean and mean what you say. If you mean "ass," say ass.

Smokey

The only thing that truly "ails" the amateur radio service is those
who are committed to spreading messages of hate and prejudice against
those who choose a path for getting their license that said spreaders
don't happen to like.

If you're no longer happy with the HOBBY, then find another one.
Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.



Oh, I don't know..... I think you "both" may have some points. No one should
be "forced" from the hobby - however - there are those whose apparent love
of CW still think it is the saviour of the world and the hobby - it is NOT.
CW is being used as a wedge to cause a deep divide amongst our ranks. Those
who LOVE it and think it needs to stay. Those who had it but don't use it.
Those who have yet to break into Amateur Radio. Should those like the OP of
this thread be forced from the hobby due to their opinions? NO - but then
neither should new folks interested in becoming hams - based on their lack
of interest for "CW". CW has NOT kept the bands clean as some have tried to
impress upon the world. It is time you admit that.

As for "finding" a new hobby..... that reminds me of so many who always say
"I HATE MY JOB". OK - so go get another one! Case in point - bus drivers - I
knew a few who couldn't STAND working with the public. Well - you chose the
WRONG field. Go find a job you'll be happy with - then YOU will be happy,
your fellow employees will be happy - your family, etc. No one will have to
hear your whining. AND those you couldn't stand - won't be there - anymore.

IF you can't stand it because "CW" is being outcast - well - there is NO
easy out - there. It is a fact of life - we must accept. So, either LIVE
WITH IT - OR - DO find something that won't "frustrate" you - due to
changes. After all - WHAT GOOD - is a hobby or JOB - if you can no longer
"enjoy" it? It makes no sense to stay in it - if all it does is cause pain
and hardship. There is NO sense arguing with fellow hams and casting others
aside showing interest - JUST BECAUSE a mode is being antiquated. That is
doing no good for the hobby OR any "person". CW isn't "THEE" answer to all
the Ham problems existing - real OR imagined.

Kids today don't take to hobbies like US older people did. They're not being
led down the paths - be it by parents OR teachers - to DISCOVER. In the last
10 years, I've "rarely" heard of any "Science Fairs" - which as children -
most of us were implored to submit entries for. Most shop classes are
shutting down - at least here they have. The ONLY source of electronics they
see here now - is IF they go to a Tech school or the military after
graduation. Even the Vo-Tech schools are left for those with a "C" average
or better - which sucks. Children "have" to fit in educationally -
SOMEWHERE. Maybe they're not that great at History, Math, etc. Maybe - like
many others - they have a knack to learn what "does" interest them - be it
"Mechanics", "Electronics", "Electrical". I know many who failed school but
are damned good at their respected jobs of those just mentioned. They got
there by learning as a CHILD then progressing through other courses they
could take - even if it were "night" classes that they could "pay" to take
at the "Vo-Tech" schools.

So - if kids today aren't being shown anything to spark their interest and
they don't touch electronics til they get it in Tech school or the
military - and I'm talking "in depth" - NOT using IPODS, COMPUTERS, MP3s,
CELLS - without getting inside them - then by that time - they've WASTED
many good "learning" years.

Bush talks of "no child left behind"! I have news for him - MANY ARE -
around here - the emphasis is on FOOTBALL - to hell with Academics. AGAIN I
say - of say 10 graduating classes - hundreds of students - DOZENS of
football players OR basketball/baseball for that matter - "MAYBE" one gets a
scholarship to college for FOOTBALL (or the others) and MAYBE he may go to
the pros. I've known MANY good players and they went no further than high
school. These players were touted as great by coaches, parents, umpires,
etc.
They're working for a living just like the rest of us. With our Educational
system NOT pursuing the arts of metal, electrical and so on - we will
eventually fall behind in skills. History, Math and so on - are great - I'm
not knocking them - but SOMEONE has to learn the skills!

CW is DEAD. CW has gone the way of smoke signals and war bearing tom toms.
Fighting for the survival of CW is like fighting to keep a person alive for
eternity - it ain't happening. Accept life and move on. There is NO sense
making enemies over something so ridiculous - especially with those you
don't even know.
You LOVE CW? Fine - USE IT - contact anyone you can on the bands in CW.
ENJOY IT! No one is forcing you to NOT use it or enjoy it. Personally, I'm
not into CW - but I do tune in once in a while. But I'm not going to tell
others to NOT use it or learn it - that is a matter of personal choice.

I beg to differ, but the CW bands are a lot cleaner than the phone
bands....listen to any of the squid-bait on the lower phone bands.
There are good and bad cw and phone operators, but I find much better
operator skills and civility in the cw only portions of the bands. Most
cw operators don't find the need to banter, nitpick, name-call, harrass
and the like . I use phone and cw and admit to preferring cw, but now
that the phone bands have cut into the cw portions of the band , now I
will have to deal with less space to operate in unless I work around
the splatter and garbage generated by more useless phone nets and
banter.....my 2 cents----Ted---KQ4MZ

On Dec 15, 10:35 am, "Radiosrfun" wrote:
"Smokey" wrote in ...





I believe the points made in the Fedup postings are pretty good. It
seems like everytime
anyone objects to anything they are immediately labeled as "spreading
hate and
prejudice."

Truth is, no endeavor of betterment has ever NOT started with self
critique.

I do agree with the writer that hams have become hot house orchids in
this
respect.

Why should anyone not agreeing with you need to find a new hobby? What
gives you more rights?

Finally, for crying out loud, can using contrived words like "arse."
Say
what you mean and mean what you say. If you mean "ass," say ass.

Smokey

The only thing that truly "ails" the amateur radio service is those
who are committed to spreading messages of hate and prejudice against
those who choose a path for getting their license that said spreaders
don't happen to like.

If you're no longer happy with the HOBBY, then find another one.
Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.Oh, I don't know..... I think you "both" may have some points. No one should
be "forced" from the hobby - however - there are those whose apparent love
of CW still think it is the saviour of the world and the hobby - it is NOT.
CW is being used as a wedge to cause a deep divide amongst our ranks. Those
who LOVE it and think it needs to stay. Those who had it but don't use it.
Those who have yet to break into Amateur Radio. Should those like the OP of
this thread be forced from the hobby due to their opinions? NO - but then
neither should new folks interested in becoming hams - based on their lack
of interest for "CW". CW has NOT kept the bands clean as some have tried to
impress upon the world. It is time you admit that.

As for "finding" a new hobby..... that reminds me of so many who always say
"I HATE MY JOB". OK - so go get another one! Case in point - bus drivers - I
knew a few who couldn't STAND working with the public. Well - you chose the
WRONG field. Go find a job you'll be happy with - then YOU will be happy,
your fellow employees will be happy - your family, etc. No one will have to
hear your whining. AND those you couldn't stand - won't be there - anymore.

IF you can't stand it because "CW" is being outcast - well - there is NO
easy out - there. It is a fact of life - we must accept. So, either LIVE
WITH IT - OR - DO find something that won't "frustrate" you - due to
changes. After all - WHAT GOOD - is a hobby or JOB - if you can no longer
"enjoy" it? It makes no sense to stay in it - if all it does is cause pain
and hardship. There is NO sense arguing with fellow hams and casting others
aside showing interest - JUST BECAUSE a mode is being antiquated. That is
doing no good for the hobby OR any "person". CW isn't "THEE" answer to all
the Ham problems existing - real OR imagined.

Kids today don't take to hobbies like US older people did. They're not being
led down the paths - be it by parents OR teachers - to DISCOVER. In the last
10 years, I've "rarely" heard of any "Science Fairs" - which as children -
most of us were implored to submit entries for. Most shop classes are
shutting down - at least here they have. The ONLY source of electronics they
see here now - is IF they go to a Tech school or the military after
graduation. Even the Vo-Tech schools are left for those with a "C" average
or better - which sucks. Children "have" to fit in educationally -
SOMEWHERE. Maybe they're not that great at History, Math, etc. Maybe - like
many others - they have a knack to learn what "does" interest them - be it
"Mechanics", "Electronics", "Electrical". I know many who failed school but
are damned good at their respected jobs of those just mentioned. They got
there by learning as a CHILD then progressing through other courses they
could take - even if it were "night" classes that they could "pay" to take
at the "Vo-Tech" schools.

So - if kids today aren't being shown anything to spark their interest and
they don't touch electronics til they get it in Tech school or the
military - and I'm talking "in depth" - NOT using IPODS, COMPUTERS, MP3s,
CELLS - without getting inside them - then by that time - they've WASTED
many good "learning" years.

Bush talks of "no child left behind"! I have news for him - MANY ARE -
around here - the emphasis is on FOOTBALL - to hell with Academics. AGAIN I
say - of say 10 graduating classes - hundreds of students - DOZENS of
football players OR basketball/baseball for that matter - "MAYBE" one gets a
scholarship to college for FOOTBALL (or the others) and MAYBE he may go to
the pros. I've known MANY good players and they went no further than high
school. These players were touted as great by coaches, parents, umpires,
etc.
They're working for a living just like the rest of us. With our Educational
system NOT pursuing the arts of metal, electrical and so on - we will
eventually fall behind in skills. History, Math and so on - are great - I'm
not knocking them - but SOMEONE has to learn the skills!

CW is DEAD. CW has gone the way of smoke signals and war bearing tom toms.
Fighting for the survival of CW is like fighting to keep a person alive for
eternity - it ain't happening. Accept life and move on. There is NO sense
making enemies over something so ridiculous - especially with those you
don't even know.
You LOVE CW? Fine - USE IT - contact anyone you can on the bands in CW.
ENJOY IT! No one is forcing you to NOT use it or enjoy it. Personally, I'm
not into CW - but I do tune in once in a while. But I'm not going to tell
others to NOT use it or learn it - that is a matter of personal choice.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

OK, just to clarify a point I made below AND a few times - the bad operators
I spoke of - were NOT in the CW portions of the bands - they were operating
SSB. Still - they were BEFORE NO CODE was even brought about.
The majority were General class and above - CW 13 or 20 WPM operators. So -
maybe CW kept the CW portions clean - but it had little effect on the SSB
frequencies. So, I still believe that CW did little to keep the bands
"clean".

RRF

"tjbitt" wrote in message
ups.com...
I beg to differ, but the CW bands are a lot cleaner than the phone
bands....listen to any of the squid-bait on the lower phone bands.
There are good and bad cw and phone operators, but I find much better
operator skills and civility in the cw only portions of the bands. Most
cw operators don't find the need to banter, nitpick, name-call, harrass
and the like . I use phone and cw and admit to preferring cw, but now
that the phone bands have cut into the cw portions of the band , now I
will have to deal with less space to operate in unless I work around
the splatter and garbage generated by more useless phone nets and
banter.....my 2 cents----Ted---KQ4MZ

On Dec 15, 10:35 am, "Radiosrfun" wrote:
"Smokey" wrote in
...





I believe the points made in the Fedup postings are pretty good. It
seems like everytime
anyone objects to anything they are immediately labeled as
"spreading
hate and
prejudice."

Truth is, no endeavor of betterment has ever NOT started with self
critique.

I do agree with the writer that hams have become hot house orchids
in
this
respect.

Why should anyone not agreeing with you need to find a new hobby?
What
gives you more rights?

Finally, for crying out loud, can using contrived words like
"arse."
Say
what you mean and mean what you say. If you mean "ass," say ass.

Smokey

The only thing that truly "ails" the amateur radio service is those
who are committed to spreading messages of hate and prejudice against
those who choose a path for getting their license that said spreaders
don't happen to like.

If you're no longer happy with the HOBBY, then find another one.
Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.Oh, I don't
know..... I think you "both" may have some points. No one should
be "forced" from the hobby - however - there are those whose apparent
love
of CW still think it is the saviour of the world and the hobby - it is
NOT.
CW is being used as a wedge to cause a deep divide amongst our ranks.
Those
who LOVE it and think it needs to stay. Those who had it but don't use
it.
Those who have yet to break into Amateur Radio. Should those like the OP
of
this thread be forced from the hobby due to their opinions? NO - but then
neither should new folks interested in becoming hams - based on their
lack
of interest for "CW". CW has NOT kept the bands clean as some have tried
to
impress upon the world. It is time you admit that.

As for "finding" a new hobby..... that reminds me of so many who always
say
"I HATE MY JOB". OK - so go get another one! Case in point - bus
drivers - I
knew a few who couldn't STAND working with the public. Well - you chose
the
WRONG field. Go find a job you'll be happy with - then YOU will be happy,
your fellow employees will be happy - your family, etc. No one will have
to
hear your whining. AND those you couldn't stand - won't be there -
anymore.

IF you can't stand it because "CW" is being outcast - well - there is NO
easy out - there. It is a fact of life - we must accept. So, either LIVE
WITH IT - OR - DO find something that won't "frustrate" you - due to
changes. After all - WHAT GOOD - is a hobby or JOB - if you can no longer
"enjoy" it? It makes no sense to stay in it - if all it does is cause
pain
and hardship. There is NO sense arguing with fellow hams and casting
others
aside showing interest - JUST BECAUSE a mode is being antiquated. That is
doing no good for the hobby OR any "person". CW isn't "THEE" answer to
all
the Ham problems existing - real OR imagined.

Kids today don't take to hobbies like US older people did. They're not
being
led down the paths - be it by parents OR teachers - to DISCOVER. In the
last
10 years, I've "rarely" heard of any "Science Fairs" - which as
children -
most of us were implored to submit entries for. Most shop classes are
shutting down - at least here they have. The ONLY source of electronics
they
see here now - is IF they go to a Tech school or the military after
graduation. Even the Vo-Tech schools are left for those with a "C"
average
or better - which sucks. Children "have" to fit in educationally -
SOMEWHERE. Maybe they're not that great at History, Math, etc. Maybe -
like
many others - they have a knack to learn what "does" interest them - be
it
"Mechanics", "Electronics", "Electrical". I know many who failed school
but
are damned good at their respected jobs of those just mentioned. They got
there by learning as a CHILD then progressing through other courses they
could take - even if it were "night" classes that they could "pay" to
take
at the "Vo-Tech" schools.

So - if kids today aren't being shown anything to spark their interest
and
they don't touch electronics til they get it in Tech school or the
military - and I'm talking "in depth" - NOT using IPODS, COMPUTERS, MP3s,
CELLS - without getting inside them - then by that time - they've WASTED
many good "learning" years.

Bush talks of "no child left behind"! I have news for him - MANY ARE -
around here - the emphasis is on FOOTBALL - to hell with Academics. AGAIN
I
say - of say 10 graduating classes - hundreds of students - DOZENS of
football players OR basketball/baseball for that matter - "MAYBE" one
gets a
scholarship to college for FOOTBALL (or the others) and MAYBE he may go
to
the pros. I've known MANY good players and they went no further than high
school. These players were touted as great by coaches, parents, umpires,
etc.
They're working for a living just like the rest of us. With our
Educational
system NOT pursuing the arts of metal, electrical and so on - we will
eventually fall behind in skills. History, Math and so on - are great -
I'm
not knocking them - but SOMEONE has to learn the skills!

CW is DEAD. CW has gone the way of smoke signals and war bearing tom
toms.
Fighting for the survival of CW is like fighting to keep a person alive
for
eternity - it ain't happening. Accept life and move on. There is NO sense
making enemies over something so ridiculous - especially with those you
don't even know.
You LOVE CW? Fine - USE IT - contact anyone you can on the bands in CW.
ENJOY IT! No one is forcing you to NOT use it or enjoy it. Personally,
I'm
not into CW - but I do tune in once in a while. But I'm not going to tell
others to NOT use it or learn it - that is a matter of personal choice.-
Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Smokey wrote:
: Finally, for crying out loud, can using contrived words like "arse."
: Say
: what you mean and mean what you say. If you mean "ass," say ass.
Contrived?

arse == butt/bum
ass == donkey/mule
--
73 Chris Cox N0UK, G4JEC, ex-AB0CN, ex-G8PTC RNARS #1157 EN34jv33

WWW Home Page: http://WWW.Chris.Org/ http://www.pingjockey.net
Cultural observation:
Europeans think 100 miles is a long way;
Americans think 100 years is a long time!

wrote in message
...
Smokey wrote:
: Finally, for crying out loud, can using contrived words like
"arse."
: Say
: what you mean and mean what you say. If you mean "ass," say ass.
Contrived?

arse == butt/bum
ass == donkey/mule
--
73 Chris Cox N0UK, G4JEC, ex-AB0CN, ex-G8PTC RNARS #1157 EN34jv33

WWW Home Page: http://WWW.Chris.Org/ http://www.pingjockey.net
Cultural observation:
Europeans think 100 miles is a long way;
Americans think 100 years is a long time!

Whatever the case - we all know how this thread got started - and if you
forgot - read the title. AS OF 12/15 - the FCC has all but eliminated MORSE
CODE (CW). It is no longer required on tests......... So - CW Advocacy
group - GET A GRIP. As I said - if you love CW - go for it - use it all you
want - there are many who still do use it. But it isn't worth it to make
enemies over a mode - WE had no choice over. The FCC made it a part of Ham -
and the FCC took it away as a part of Ham. WE had nothing to say. ENJOY your
commaradery with your fellow hams and forget this FOOLISH argument - once
and for all - IT IS OVER. DEAD.