Phil Kane wrote:
On 13 Oct 2005 06:21:10 -0700, wrote:


In the case of UPS it seems to have more to do with the shipper than
anything else.


And sometimes it's the gremlins. Two horror stories:

1. Six years ago I shipped an AEA TNC to Timewave for an upgrade,
UPS insured. It was well-packed - I've spent many years doing
domestic and overseas packing of fragile household goods and
electronic equipment (and during the 1967 War a commercial ocean
shipper hired me to so some of it because his regular staff was out
doing military service) so I DO know how to pack well. Timewave
reported that the knob and shaft on the only front-panel control was
bent and had to be replaced. Fast forward to last year. I had to
ship another TNC to them, and mindful of the first experience, put
TWO INCHES of snug-wrapped bubble-pack around the instrument, then
two inches of sheet foam around that. I swear - the packing must
have weighed as much as the instrument. You guessed it - Timewave
reported that the control was damaged in shipment although the box
and the packing was intact.. Go figure.

Sounds like bovine excrement to me. I have dealt with companies in the past
that always found certain things "broken" on items returned for repair,
even when they weren't. It is a great way of bringing in a little extra
money, and the customer has no way of proving the lie... well, unless
the company tells the same lame story over and over again like Timewave
appears to have done.


2. Quite a number of years ago I had a commercial art framer send a
one-of-a-kind drawing cross-country to a friend of mine for a
special birthday. It went UPS insured. When it arrived, my friend
reported that there was a small crack in the glass frame and I
reported that to the shipper.

I'm betting this wasn't packed the way UPS says you should pack fragile
items: double box, 2 inches of packing around the item, and 2 inches of
packing around the inside box. You cannot just throw a glass frame into
a box, and fill the box with peanuts, and expect it to survive. The
frame needs a single wrap of thin foam (cardboard thickness), a piece of
wood, or masonite front and back taped firmly. This should then be placed
in a sealed plastic bag. This composit should be wrapped loosly with
2 inches of bubble wrap, and boxed. The inside box should then have
another 2 inches of loosly packed peanuts. You can set the stage for a
great amount of damage to a fragile item by simply packing the peanuts
too tightly in the box.

I have *never*, repeat *never* had a problem with UPS damaging an item
that was properly packed. On the one or two occasions I have had a damage
problem, the items were heavy, and were tossed into the box, with a little
bit of crumbled newspaper thrown in on top to fill up the empty space.

Or someone has shipped a BA that originally was shipped with the transformer
removed, with the transformer installed... stupid stuff.

That isn't UPS's fault, that is the shipper's fault.

UPS moves quickly, packages literally fly through their hub. UPS gives
recommendations on how to pack to survive. If you don't follow them,
you are taking a very big risk. FedEX's ground operations are identical
to UPS's. FedEX's air freight operations gain some protection from damage
by forcing you to use their standardized boxes.

-Chuck

Back in the minicomputer days, we had a disk drive for a DEC PDP11-70 on
order. In those days drives were large and heavy, and a single drive might
take up one-third of a rack. Well, the freight truck driver pulled up near
the loading dock, opened the rear doors and backed the semi up to the
loading dock. The driver got out again and looked around for unloading help.
Not finding any help, he climbed inside the trailer and rolled the 120 pound
crate out the back of the truck and down onto the loading dock. The height
difference between the floor of the trailer and the loading dock was about
four feet. The driver pulled forward, closed the trailer doors and drove
off. Needless to say the drive didn't work, and the shock detector inside
the packing crate indicated the drive had suffered at least one large
impulse during shipment from the factory to the customer.

"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Phil Kane wrote:
[stuff]
Sounds like bovine excrement to me. I have dealt with companies in the
past...
[stuff]

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:15:37 -0400, Chuck Harris wrote:

have weighed as much as the instrument. You guessed it - Timewave
reported that the control was damaged in shipment although the box
and the packing was intact.. Go figure.

Sounds like bovine excrement to me. I have dealt with companies in the past
that always found certain things "broken" on items returned for repair,
even when they weren't. It is a great way of bringing in a little extra
money, and the customer has no way of proving the lie... well, unless
the company tells the same lame story over and over again like Timewave
appears to have done.

The cost of the replacement of the control was included in the flat
advertised price of the upgrade so a) it didn't cost me anything and
b) they would have lost money by "just doing it" unless necessary.

special birthday. It went UPS insured. When it arrived, my friend
reported that there was a small crack in the glass frame and I
reported that to the shipper.

I'm betting this wasn't packed the way UPS says you should pack fragile
items:

This was done by a commercial art framer and shipper who ships
fragile and valuable artwork all over the world. I'm sure that they
knew what they were doing. The problem wasn't the way it was
shipped by them - a small crack can result from many causes
including stress relief in the glass - and is no big deal compared
to the condition that it was returned in. We had the "as arrived at
consignee destination" pictures and the "as received in return by
original shipper" pictures to prove it.

The bottom line was that UPS figured that this would be covered by
the shipper's insurance so they didn't give a flying fig about
what happened to the package as they repacked it (by their own
request) and returned it.

UPS moves quickly, packages literally fly through their hub. UPS gives
recommendations on how to pack to survive. If you don't follow them,
you are taking a very big risk.

A former neighbor retired as the regional UPS customer service chief
some years ago. The stories she told after retirement which were
similar to mine would make your hair stand up.

Perhaps they now have a better grade of handler ???? I seem to
feel that they have a better grade of delivery persons over the last
decade.

FedEX's ground operations are identical to UPS's.

FedEx Ground is the former RPM. I have never had problems with them
and lately have done most of my business with FedEx.

FedEX's air freight operations gain some protection from damage
by forcing you to use their standardized boxes.

Never had problems with them.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:17:50 -0700 (PDT), "Phil Kane"
wrote:




The only problem that I've had with the local UPS delivery here is
that he leaves the package and rings the bell, and then it's a race
to see if I can open the door before I see The Big Brown Truck drive
off.

That was decided years ago. Numerous friends who work for UPS
tell me that, maybe ten or fifteen years ago, the beancounters figured
the extra deliveries that could be made instead of waiting for sigs
would easily cover the cost of stolen-off-the-doorstep shipments.

A friend told one of these people that a $600 antenna had been
left in plain sight under his exterior stairway and it might have been
nice to claim it wasn't delivered so he could have a spare for his
summer home.

But they have this wacko deal where it's at the driver's
discretion as to whether or not to require an adult's presence and
sig. I once had some computer books shipped from Amazon. I came home
to a yellow sticky saying the package had to be delivered to and
signed for by an adult. I called about it. No reason was given, but I
was told I could not just sign the yellow sticky and leave it on the
door.

Since the UPSsholes only work when I am at work, I had them
divert the shipment to work, hoping it wasn't some porn mis-shipped to
me for the amusement of the mailroom staff.

It was just my Amazon order, so I called UPS to ask what the
hell was up. They said the driver could make the non-overridable
judgement to require adult presence and sig. The nest they could guess
was that there might have been thefts of packages in my neighborhood,
so he decided to lay on the requirement.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 07:34:31 GMT, wrote:

The only problem that I've had with the local UPS delivery here is
that he leaves the package and rings the bell, and then it's a race
to see if I can open the door before I see The Big Brown Truck drive
off.

That was decided years ago. Numerous friends who work for UPS
tell me that, maybe ten or fifteen years ago, the beancounters figured
the extra deliveries that could be made instead of waiting for sigs
would easily cover the cost of stolen-off-the-doorstep shipments.

A friend told one of these people that a $600 antenna had been
left in plain sight under his exterior stairway and it might have been
nice to claim it wasn't delivered so he could have a spare for his
summer home.

I have checked the UPS Tracking system for all deliveries made when
I wasn't home and quite a number of them state "delivered to
addressee" rather than "left at destination".

Truth or consequences.....without a requirement for a sig, guess who
always wins.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

(-=H=-) wrote in news:GQ73f.1$z21.0@dfw-
service2.ext.ray.com:

Hi all,

I shipped two boxes of amateur radio equipment yesterday from
Lewisville, Texas to Cooper City, Florida. As always, I used
FedEx Ground. Here's why:

Two packages:
(1) weight 33.60 lbs, size 24 x 21 x 16 inches, insured $900
(2) weight 13.95 lbs, size 22 x 22 x 14 inches, insured $100

FedEx Ground, delivery in 3 business days, cost $38.77
UPS Ground, delivery in 4-5 business days, cost $56.07

UPS would have charged $17.30 more than FedEx (that's almost
45 percent) and would have taken 1-2 days longer to arrive.
To me, $17.30 is not a trivial amount of money.

Something to think about next time you're shipping packages!

73,
Dean K5DH


It's not only cheaper to use FedEx they do a better job. We ship computer
equipment all over the USA, i.e. will build the Conquest Systems :-) The
guys at UPS kick the boxs all over, the guys at FedEx carry them. When
we used UPS about 8% where damaged on delivery with FedEx less the .01%
of .01% get damaged.


--
kla1899

What I don't understand is why ANY ham would ever use UPS after what
they did to the 220 MHz band a few years ago.

Earl
KD5XB

--
Earl Needham
Clovis, New Mexico USA

Earl Needham wrote:

What I don't understand is why ANY ham would ever use UPS after what
they did to the 220 MHz band a few years ago.

Good point. And the MOST tragic part of it is that after they took the
bandwidth, they decided not to use it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Earl Needham wrote:

What I don't understand is why ANY ham would ever use UPS after what
they did to the 220 MHz band a few years ago.


Good point. And the MOST tragic part of it is that after they took the
bandwidth, they decided not to use it.
--scott


Of course, UPS only asked for the bandwidth. It was the FCC
and congress that gave them what they asked for. What UPS wanted
to do was perfectly valid, and a good idea too. If there is any
blame to pass out, it rightfully belongs to the FCC and congress.

Is there anyone who hasn't ultimately benefited from the ability
to track their packages? UPS forged the way, but all shippers
now provide the capability. It just happened that the existing
cell phone infrastructure was a more practical way of providing the
tracking service than was building an entirely new infrastructure
on 220MHz... something that, in hindsight, the FCC should have
realized.

-Chuck

"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Earl Needham wrote:

What I don't understand is why ANY ham would ever use UPS after what
they did to the 220 MHz band a few years ago.


Good point. And the MOST tragic part of it is that after they took the
bandwidth, they decided not to use it.
--scott


Of course, UPS only asked for the bandwidth. It was the FCC
and congress that gave them what they asked for. What UPS wanted
to do was perfectly valid, and a good idea too. If there is any
blame to pass out, it rightfully belongs to the FCC and congress.

Is there anyone who hasn't ultimately benefited from the ability
to track their packages? UPS forged the way, but all shippers
now provide the capability. It just happened that the existing
cell phone infrastructure was a more practical way of providing the
tracking service than was building an entirely new infrastructure
on 220MHz... something that, in hindsight, the FCC should have
realized.

-Chuck

The FCC is Reactive not Proactive. The latter would require thought.

--

Clif Holland KA5IPF
www.avvid.com