Oh, I LOVED the Galaxy V mark II. It was the rig I grew up on! When
my folks got divorced when I was in college they stored it in a garage
and it got rusted out completely. My second best choice is the Yaesu
FT-101E or EE, I had the E rig in my first marriage but I lost it in
the divorce and bankruptcy. I just got a Yaesu FT-101EE to reactivate
the communications part of the hobby. I am a builder, primarly, and
have been for decades.

I beg to differ regarding tube gear being tempermental. Badly designed
tube gear is certainly inferior to established solid state gear. But
well designed tube gear (Collins class and some military) is better
than most solid state gear. Success depends on a lot of factoris:
electronic design, mechanical engineering, manufacturing methods and
techniques, parts sources, pricing, and profit margin.

The FT-101, Galaxy, Drake, and Swan are not $100 pieces of gear on
EBay, they are more like $300 to $400 pretty consistencly. I think a
fully loaded multiband fresh boatanchor should sell quite nicely for
$199.95 it if offers compareable features. That would imply a
wholesale price of about $100.00. That would imply that parts, labor,
and other indirect costs should be somewhere between $50 to $80. I
think I can get from Russia or China a single sweep tube plus a handful
of smaller tubes for about $30. The rest would have to be chassis,
discretes, power, labor, shipping, and customs.

Now, if I market direct through the net rather than through a retailer,
I think I could go self sustaining after a few build-sales cycles.

If the people on this topic would be willing to be a focus group for
the fresh boat-anchor of thier dreams, I would be quite grateful.

The Eternal Squire

wrote:

Oh, I LOVED the Galaxy V mark II.

The FT-101, Galaxy, Drake, and Swan are not $100 pieces of gear on
EBay, they are more like $300 to $400 pretty consistencly. I think a
fully loaded multiband fresh boatanchor should sell quite nicely for
$199.95 it if offers compareable features. That would imply a
wholesale price of about $100.00. That would imply that parts, labor,
and other indirect costs should be somewhere between $50 to $80. I
think I can get from Russia or China a single sweep tube plus a handful
of smaller tubes for about $30. The rest would have to be chassis,
discretes, power, labor, shipping, and customs.

Now, if I market direct through the net rather than through a retailer,
I think I could go self sustaining after a few build-sales cycles.

Since I dove into this water...I'll continue my nay-saying even tho I
love BAs.

You say FT-101, etc...aren't $100 pieces of gear on ebay. Thats too
broad and maybe your perspective is different than mine. As found
Galaxy V are lucky to get $100, as are HW-100. FT-101, Kwood TS-520,
Swan 350-500, Drake TR-3/4 will garner twice that in "last time I fired
it up it worked" condition. I've given away two Galaxy V in as found
condition this year because they couldn't be sold at any price.

I'm not clear if you are suggesting building these things from scratch
or taking older xcvrs and refurbing them. If you haven't walked this
talk I suspect you'd find out very quickly that paying $35 for an old
Galaxy and refurbing it at maybe a cost of a dozen hours of labour you
might get $125 on resale on a good day when there are no other buyers
that could do the same thing for their own purpose.

To do an equivalent Galaxy 5 from scratch for $199 commercial resale?
No way.

If the people on this topic would be willing to be a focus group for
the fresh boat-anchor of thier dreams, I would be quite grateful.

Well, you have my input. I'll never discourage rolling your own but
trying to make a bizness out of it is a whole nuther can of worms.

-Bill WX4A

Bill ) writes:

You say FT-101, etc...aren't $100 pieces of gear on ebay. Thats too
broad and maybe your perspective is different than mine. As found
Galaxy V are lucky to get $100, as are HW-100. FT-101, Kwood TS-520,
Swan 350-500, Drake TR-3/4 will garner twice that in "last time I fired
it up it worked" condition. I've given away two Galaxy V in as found
condition this year because they couldn't be sold at any price.

And of course, people want the boatanchors because they are old, because
they are the rig they had when they were first in the hobby or because
they lusted after the rig decades ago but couldn't afford it. I suspect
that is the major reason, rather than because they are tube-based. Take
away that familiarity, and the interested number will also drop.

People will pay more now the more expensive it was in the first place, but
that may be as much because fewer bought them back then (hence fewer
exist) than because they are better rigs.

Michael VE2BVW

Michael:

How about a thought experiment? Assuming we don't consider copyright,
patent, trademark, or other issues. Say God gave me the gift of being
able to create a Collins-class rig at 1/2 to 1/3 the usual price on
Ebay? Would that be tempting?

The Eternal Squikre

And of course, people want the boatanchors because they are old
Collectors rather than operators, right?

they are the rig they had when they were first in the hobby
Yes, but also because they found later, purportedly more modern
equipment,
to be harder to operate or repair, or easier to break, with replacement
parts
and labor costing more than the rig itself?

they lusted after the rig decades ago but couldn't afford it.
And still can't, in the case of Collins for example.

I suspect that is the major reason, rather than because they are tube-based.
Really? I think it takes a different mentality to operate a tube rig
than a semiconductor or digital rig. I really think the casual tube
rigs were easier for children and adolescents to operate on HF. I had
the worst time trying to understand an ICOM during my 20's, for
example.

Take away that familiarity, and the interested number will also drop.
But what if I kept the familiarity of operation rather than the
familiarity of brand name? Would it drop drastically?

The Eternal Squire

wrote:



But what if I kept the familiarity of operation rather than the
familiarity of brand name? Would it drop drastically?\

Doesn't work that way anymore. In the old days the manufacturer might
have included a card in the manual that you could stick on a 5 cent
stamp and ask why the rig didn't work.
People don't accept that level of service these days.

I'm not trying to be condescening...YOU buy a Gal V on ebay or swap meet
and try to get it playing to satisfaction for a single year of regular
operation...you'll gain a different perspective. I don't think you can
'homebrew' around these issues. Its always 'something'.

-Bill

) writes:
And of course, people want the boatanchors because they are old
Collectors rather than operators, right?

they are the rig they had when they were first in the hobby
Yes, but also because they found later, purportedly more modern
equipment,
to be harder to operate or repair, or easier to break, with replacement
parts
and labor costing more than the rig itself?

they lusted after the rig decades ago but couldn't afford it.
And still can't, in the case of Collins for example.

I suspect that is the major reason, rather than because they are tube-based.
Really? I think it takes a different mentality to operate a tube rig
than a semiconductor or digital rig. I really think the casual tube
rigs were easier for children and adolescents to operate on HF. I had
the worst time trying to understand an ICOM during my 20's, for
example.

Take away that familiarity, and the interested number will also drop.
But what if I kept the familiarity of operation rather than the
familiarity of brand name? Would it drop drastically?

Thirty to forty years ago, hams abandoned those old boatanchors.
They wanted the solid state, they wanted the features. The rigs
could barely be given away. Circa 1972 a lot of boatanchor equipment
went through my hands, because people were giving it away, or they
would sell at the radio club auction for five or ten dollars. I let
it go just as easily, because I could trade it for something more
interesting or just to sample what were new things to me.

It's only in recent years that people became really interested
in that old gear. Nostalgia. And the demand raises the prices
of those once useless rigs.

If simplicity is the issue as you think, then through the decades
there would always be basic rigs being manufactured, because
there'd be demand. If people wanted basic, they'd not be
waiting decades for it. And of course, basic does not have
to mean tubes. The bells and whistles were added because ICs
and the like made it easier to add them, but there was no need
to actually add them. There could have been basic solid state
rigs, and of course Ten Tec did offer them, as did some of
the other manufacturers (though Ten Tec lasted longer than
the rest). If you think there's a market for a bare tube
rig because of ease of repair, then it's just as easy to use
discrete transistors (or discretes with some common ICs) to build
a basic solid state rig that is just as easy to repair as that
old HW-100. The only difference is that with a solid state
rig, there's no tubes that can easily be pulled out to take
to the drugstore to test in the tester, which does't matter
because the tube tester isn't there anymore, and neither does
the drugstore sell the common tubes that was the purpose of
the tester being there in the first place.

I can't say I'd spend the money, but I want a Clegg Interceptor
from the early sixties. There is nothing about that receiver that
is better than a more recent and decent receiver. It lacks features,
and of course suffers from a relatively high noise figure that came
with the tubes. I suspect its selectivity is broad compared to more
recent receivers. I don't want it for what it can do, I
want it because I remember reading about it, a decade after it was being
sold, and simply thinking it was a neat receiver.

A copy of the receiver wouldn't be the same, and is pretty inconceivable
given that there will be little demand.

I am conveying what I think about boatanchors, which may be wrong. But
I suspect you are trying to judge a market for such a rig based on your
own desires. If you think there is a market, you need to find those
people who would actually buy it, who actually do share your thinking
on the issue, to prove that there would be a market for such a project.

I still think that most people who pursue boatanchors are doing it
for nostalgia. A case can even be made that they long for simpler
days. But that doesn't mean that they want to give up bells and whistles
and modern designs on a permanent basis. I doubt newcomers to the
hobby are going off to buy that Drake 2B, they'd pursue it later as
another facet of the hobby if they do so at all (though of course
there was a time when they might have started with it, because it
was seen as a "novice" receiver or because it was available used
for cheap). I think most who go after boatanchors have more recent
rigs, and they use the old rigs in tandem, for variety.

Michael VE2BVW

Come to think of it, those are good points. I guess nostalgia can
supply its own technical justifications.

The Eternal Squire

You say FT-101, etc...aren't $100 pieces of gear on ebay. Thats too
broad and maybe your perspective is different than mine. As found
Galaxy V are lucky to get $100, as are HW-100. FT-101, Kwood TS-520,
Swan 350-500, Drake TR-3/4 will garner twice that in "last time I fired
it up it worked" condition. I've given away two Galaxy V in as found
condition this year because they couldn't be sold at any price.

Found condition is the key. I'm sorry, but I got into bidding wars at
least 3 or more times trying to get a Yaesu in guaranteed working
condition with recent maintenance.

I'm not clear if you are suggesting building these things from scratch
or taking older xcvrs and refurbing them. If you haven't walked this
talk I suspect you'd find out very quickly that paying $35 for an old
Galaxy and refurbing it at maybe a cost of a dozen hours of labour you
might get $125 on resale on a good day when there are no other buyers
that could do the same thing for their own purpose.

Nope, I am indeed talking scratch.

To do an equivalent Galaxy 5 from scratch for $199 commercial resale?
No way.

Why not?

Well, you have my input. I'll never discourage rolling your own but
trying to make a bizness out of it is a whole nuther can of worms.

Oh, and I so much appreciate that. That is not sarcasm.

The Eternal Squire

wrote:



To do an equivalent Galaxy 5 from scratch for $199 commercial resale?
No way.


Why not?

At this point you are daydreaming. Start pricing the components.
You'll likely exceed $199 before you add in any labour.

-Bill