"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
...
In , "Randy" wrote:

snip

Just so I am clear about one thing .... In all of these articles that I
have been reading, when they talk about grounding the antenna, they are
referring to a RF ground (ground plane) and not a physical ground? If for
some reason the shield is not grounded would this be my problem?


Close. Whine is RF interference from the engine electrical system (and
sometimes
other electrical devices like the fuel pump) and occurs on almost all
vehicles.
The difference is that an engine compartment which is fully enclosed by
metal
will shield the radio and coax from this noise (the noise can also pass
through
the electrical system, but that doesn't seem to be your problem). If you
have a
fiberglass hood, or if your coax passes through the engine compartment,
the coax
must be grounded at the radio end or it will pick up this noise just like
an
antenna.

An RF ground is both an electrical ground -and- a physical ground. It is a
low-impedance path for RF and is very dependent on the physical properties
of
the connection. Usually, a good RF ground is any point where electricity
can
easily take many different directions -- kinda like ****ing into a lake.
Just
about any point on the chassis will be a good RF ground. A single wire to
the
chassis is a better antenna than an RF ground. For example, if your radio
is
grounded with a wire longer than just a few inches it will allow RF
voltage to
develop on the radio chassis, and the radio effectively becomes part of
your
antenna system. That makes it very suseptible to engine noise and other
types of
RF interference that may be picked up by the coax shield (which is
connected
directly to your radio chassis) or passed through the electrical system to
your
power leads. So by RF grounding the radio (and therefore your coax) you
are
shunting all that RF interference to ground so the radio doesn't have to
deal
with it.

Not having a good RF ground at the antenna can screw up your SWR, but
that's
about all. It's much more important to ground that radio!


My boss will not care that this unit has a whine. I am not sure he would
care whether it has a CB or not. I had to take the truck down to the shop
last week to get the steer tires balanced, I had to pay for everything.
He
is not a bad guy ... just cheap!


If it's a business expense it should be paid for by the business.


The unit might not be grounded very good. It sits in an upper header
console, just strapped in not bolted. I will ground the unit and purchase
a
noise filter then adjust my antennas.


The upper header console is a terrible ground if your roof is fiberglass.
I
would recommend mounting it on the dash or the hump, close to the chassis.
That
will require rerouting the coax, but at this point that seems unavoidable.


I tried reading as many articles as I could but they all were saying
the
same things and some of that I could not understand. I thank you for your
time. I will let you know if the problem persist after these changes.

Thanks again





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Actually the header is aluminum and part of the cab, not bolted or riveted.
After working with it today I feel the alternator is the primary problem.
Since I have no ignition and no whine with the key in the ON position (Fuel
Pump), the alternator seems to be the culprit. I have been reading about
installing a micro_farad capacitor between the alternator and ground in
order to steady the voltage thus reducing the whine. I understand the theory
but could use some feedback about the practical application.

I feel this might be my least time consuming and least expensive solution.

In , "Randy" wrote:

snip
Actually the header is aluminum and part of the cab, not bolted or riveted.


Then you might get a fairly good ground right there. Bolt the bracket right to
the aluminum and run the black power lead to one of the bracket bolts, cutting
the wire as short as possible (no longer than six inches should be fine).


After working with it today I feel the alternator is the primary problem.
Since I have no ignition and no whine with the key in the ON position (Fuel
Pump), the alternator seems to be the culprit. I have been reading about
installing a micro_farad capacitor between the alternator and ground in
order to steady the voltage thus reducing the whine. I understand the theory
but could use some feedback about the practical application.

I feel this might be my least time consuming and least expensive solution.


You could try that, too. Find yourself a 'motor run' (NOT a 'motor start')
capacitor of around 1 to 5 uF. They usually have tabs for terminals so you can
use crimp connectors, and they can be mounted just about anywhere with a cable
clamp. Mount it as close as possible to the alternator, or even right on the
alternator if possible. Run one wire to the output and the other to ground,
again keeping the wires as short as possible. The capacitor is not polarized so
it doesn't matter which terminal goes to ground.

But know that some regulators are messed up by putting a cap across the
alternator. If you screw up your engine, don't blame me.





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"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
...
In , "Randy" wrote:

snip
Actually the header is aluminum and part of the cab, not bolted or
riveted.


Then you might get a fairly good ground right there. Bolt the bracket
right to
the aluminum and run the black power lead to one of the bracket bolts,
cutting
the wire as short as possible (no longer than six inches should be fine).


After working with it today I feel the alternator is the primary problem.
Since I have no ignition and no whine with the key in the ON position
(Fuel
Pump), the alternator seems to be the culprit. I have been reading about
installing a micro_farad capacitor between the alternator and ground in
order to steady the voltage thus reducing the whine. I understand the
theory
but could use some feedback about the practical application.

I feel this might be my least time consuming and least expensive
solution.


You could try that, too. Find yourself a 'motor run' (NOT a 'motor start')
capacitor of around 1 to 5 uF. They usually have tabs for terminals so you
can
use crimp connectors, and they can be mounted just about anywhere with a
cable
clamp. Mount it as close as possible to the alternator, or even right on
the
alternator if possible. Run one wire to the output and the other to
ground,
again keeping the wires as short as possible. The capacitor is not
polarized so
it doesn't matter which terminal goes to ground.

But know that some regulators are messed up by putting a cap across the
alternator. If you screw up your engine, don't blame me.





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Well I have learned a tremendous amount about whine in a CB in the last
week. I stopped by a shop today to purchase a capacitor that I was going to
place on the alternator and the tech said he could fix the problem for
twenty dollars. I watched him open the unit, desolder a capacitor and
resolder a larger one in its place, he then shorted a couple of connections,
probably tweaking the unit. I figure he was doing the same thing I was going
to do but he did it inside the unit. I can just barely hear the whine ...
well worth twenty dollars.

I want to thank everyone for taking time to help me ... I did learn a lot
and I might put it to use when I have more time.

P.S. You all leave poor old George alone. If you would quit fueling the
fire the fire would burn itself out. I do not know what started it but it is
very detrimental to this group.

"Randy" wrote in message
...

"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
...
In , "Randy" wrote:

snip
Actually the header is aluminum and part of the cab, not bolted or
riveted.


Then you might get a fairly good ground right there. Bolt the bracket
right to
the aluminum and run the black power lead to one of the bracket bolts,
cutting
the wire as short as possible (no longer than six inches should be
fine).


After working with it today I feel the alternator is the primary
problem.
Since I have no ignition and no whine with the key in the ON position
(Fuel
Pump), the alternator seems to be the culprit. I have been reading
about
installing a micro_farad capacitor between the alternator and ground in
order to steady the voltage thus reducing the whine. I understand the
theory
but could use some feedback about the practical application.

I feel this might be my least time consuming and least expensive
solution.


You could try that, too. Find yourself a 'motor run' (NOT a 'motor
start')
capacitor of around 1 to 5 uF. They usually have tabs for terminals so
you
can
use crimp connectors, and they can be mounted just about anywhere with a
cable
clamp. Mount it as close as possible to the alternator, or even right on
the
alternator if possible. Run one wire to the output and the other to
ground,
again keeping the wires as short as possible. The capacitor is not
polarized so
it doesn't matter which terminal goes to ground.

But know that some regulators are messed up by putting a cap across the
alternator. If you screw up your engine, don't blame me.





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Well I have learned a tremendous amount about whine in a CB

Not from Geo, but that's OK. He's useless, except for tax purposes.

In , "Randy"
wrote:

snip
Well I have learned a tremendous amount about whine in a CB in the last
week. I stopped by a shop today to purchase a capacitor that I was going to
place on the alternator and the tech said he could fix the problem for
twenty dollars. I watched him open the unit, desolder a capacitor and
resolder a larger one in its place, he then shorted a couple of connections,
probably tweaking the unit. I figure he was doing the same thing I was going
to do but he did it inside the unit. I can just barely hear the whine ...
well worth twenty dollars.


He didn't fix the problem, he just covered it up for a fee. It would
cost you much less than twenty dollars to mount the radio properly,
which would eliminate the whine (as well as other noises that the
tech's 'fix' won't fix, as you will soon find out) -and- improve your
antenna's SWR.


I want to thank everyone for taking time to help me ... I did learn a lot
and I might put it to use when I have more time.


Better save these posts. You will need them in the future. You should
also do a radio check to see if your audio is clipping -- the tech's
'tweak' may have been to bypass your limiter, which will cause your
signal to splatter onto other channels.





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"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
...
In , "Randy"
wrote:

snip
Well I have learned a tremendous amount about whine in a CB in the last
week. I stopped by a shop today to purchase a capacitor that I was going
to
place on the alternator and the tech said he could fix the problem for
twenty dollars. I watched him open the unit, desolder a capacitor and
resolder a larger one in its place, he then shorted a couple of
connections,
probably tweaking the unit. I figure he was doing the same thing I was
going
to do but he did it inside the unit. I can just barely hear the whine
....
well worth twenty dollars.


He didn't fix the problem, he just covered it up for a fee. It would
cost you much less than twenty dollars to mount the radio properly,
which would eliminate the whine (as well as other noises that the
tech's 'fix' won't fix, as you will soon find out) -and- improve your
antenna's SWR.


I want to thank everyone for taking time to help me ... I did learn a
lot
and I might put it to use when I have more time.


Better save these posts. You will need them in the future. You should
also do a radio check to see if your audio is clipping -- the tech's
'tweak' may have been to bypass your limiter, which will cause your
signal to splatter onto other channels.



Yes , I have already noticed alot of background noise where there was none
before.

I have already saved all of these post. When I have more time I will apply
what I have learned. You will probably hear from me again

Hello Frank

Can you recommend a book or two that will teach me about CB
fundamentals, repairing and tweaking?

I have an little electronic background and even own an oscilloscope. I
think that if I learn the workings of a CB from the ground up it will be
easier for me to troubleshoot them. The first book should be very basic so I
can get the fundamentals down before diving off into the deep end.

Thanks


"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
...
In , "Randy"
wrote:

snip
Well I have learned a tremendous amount about whine in a CB in the last
week. I stopped by a shop today to purchase a capacitor that I was going
to
place on the alternator and the tech said he could fix the problem for
twenty dollars. I watched him open the unit, desolder a capacitor and
resolder a larger one in its place, he then shorted a couple of
connections,
probably tweaking the unit. I figure he was doing the same thing I was
going
to do but he did it inside the unit. I can just barely hear the whine
....
well worth twenty dollars.


He didn't fix the problem, he just covered it up for a fee. It would
cost you much less than twenty dollars to mount the radio properly,
which would eliminate the whine (as well as other noises that the
tech's 'fix' won't fix, as you will soon find out) -and- improve your
antenna's SWR.


I want to thank everyone for taking time to help me ... I did learn a
lot
and I might put it to use when I have more time.


Better save these posts. You will need them in the future. You should
also do a radio check to see if your audio is clipping -- the tech's
'tweak' may have been to bypass your limiter, which will cause your
signal to splatter onto other channels.





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In , "Randy"
wrote:

Hello Frank

Can you recommend a book or two that will teach me about CB
fundamentals, repairing and tweaking?

I have an little electronic background and even own an oscilloscope. I
think that if I learn the workings of a CB from the ground up it will be
easier for me to troubleshoot them. The first book should be very basic so I
can get the fundamentals down before diving off into the deep end.

Thanks


"The Radio Amateur's Handbook" by the ARRL is exactly what you are
looking for. You can usually find a copy at your local public library,
or pick one up on ebay for just a few bucks. Just about any edition
printed in the last 20-30 years will be fine. I do -NOT- recommend any
of these 'CB-tweak-n-mod' books or CDs -- not only because most of the
mods are illegal, but because most of the information is gathered from
wannabe techs and power-junkies that have little experience and even
less formal education in electronics. Learn electronics the right way
and you won't have to unlearn a whole bunch of CB-voodoo later on.






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What started it? N8wwm getting his clock cleaned after harassing cbers
for discussing various aspects of radio. His butties KC8LDO, N7VCF,
WA3MOJ and N3CVJ all ran to defend him and his (felonious) law breaking
ways while harassing others. They pushed too hard and sealed their own
reputations as law breaking lids and have been angry ever since. They
blame everyone else for their self-created misery and take no
responsibility for their own actions. Hence their tired acts of trying
to get off-topic personal information on those they are unable to debate
intelligently. When the tables are turned, they begin to menstruate all
over this group. They have always been able to dish it out but must be
forced to swallow their own bitter prescription of what entertains their
double-digit feebled minds.