Agreed on the not-enough ground.. that's why counterpoise kits were
available for the W1000's... I had one that worked tits.

-SSB

Frank Gilliland wrote:

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 22:22:03 GMT, sideband wrote
in :


Jay:

Thanks for your input.. A couple of things, though..

If the coax is being used as a counterpoise, it's not part of a
capacitive grounding system.

The capacitive ground comes from the metallic base/magnet mount to the
vehicle body, not from the coax.



That was an issue when I did the mag-mount tests a few months ago. As
it turns out, the coax can provide plenty of capacitive coupling to
the vehicle, even more than the mag-mount under certain conditions.
But neither of them provide much coupling, not nearly as much as would
be needed to compare with a properly mounted base.






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Hello Sideband:

Really! What counterpoise kits?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!?!?!?
Who sold them, what, when, where?

Jay in the Mojave

Kreedentials:
Rock n Roll Fan
Owner 1967 Ford F250, 4x4, with worlds loudest PA System
Took Electronics in 8th grade, way more better than that ackademic crap
that schools now teach kids now a days, ancient European history,
liberal arts, and in incoming paper clips, in place of industrial arts.
Paid Member of Mojave Desert Radio Club, 9 dollars now. (Big party
coming up soon)
Radio enthusiast type of guy

sideband wrote:
Agreed on the not-enough ground.. that's why counterpoise kits were
available for the W1000's... I had one that worked tits.

-SSB

It was a snazzy little "8-pointed star" contraption that scewed onto
the magmount base, then the antenna coil screwed onto it.. Cost about
$15.. and they were worth their weight in gold, let me tell you. I got
mine in So.Cal. when I was stationed on Pandelton. BTW, if you get
down there, pop on ch 13 and tell Master Blaster that Crazy 1 said howdy.

Wish I could remember the name of the manufacturer, but I can't ... sorry.

-SSB

Jay in the Mojave wrote:

Hello Sideband:

Really! What counterpoise kits?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!?!?!?
Who sold them, what, when, where?

Jay in the Mojave

Kreedentials:
Rock n Roll Fan
Owner 1967 Ford F250, 4x4, with worlds loudest PA System
Took Electronics in 8th grade, way more better than that ackademic crap
that schools now teach kids now a days, ancient European history,
liberal arts, and in incoming paper clips, in place of industrial arts.
Paid Member of Mojave Desert Radio Club, 9 dollars now. (Big party
coming up soon)
Radio enthusiast type of guy

sideband wrote:

Agreed on the not-enough ground.. that's why counterpoise kits were
available for the W1000's... I had one that worked tits.

-SSB

"sideband" wrote in message
m...
It was a snazzy little "8-pointed star" contraption that scewed onto
the magmount base, then the antenna coil screwed onto it.. Cost about
$15.. and they were worth their weight in gold, let me tell you. I got
mine in So.Cal. when I was stationed on Pandelton. BTW, if you get
down there, pop on ch 13 and tell Master Blaster that Crazy 1 said howdy.

Wish I could remember the name of the manufacturer, but I can't ... sorry.

-SSB

Is this the same concept as the 3 point thing they used to sell for the 102"
whip that supposedly acted as ground radials?

Dr. D:

No.. This groundplane was actually on the shield side of the
equation.. the centerlead was never touched except for the passthru to
the coil. One PL-259 male and one PL-259 female connector on it, and
it screwed right on to the base.

-SSB

DR. Death wrote:

Is this the same concept as the 3 point thing they used to sell for the 102"
whip that supposedly acted as ground radials?

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:12:37 GMT, sideband wrote:

It was a snazzy little "8-pointed star" contraption that scewed onto
the magmount base, then the antenna coil screwed onto it.. Cost about
$15.. and they were worth their weight in gold, let me tell you. I got
mine in So.Cal. when I was stationed on Pandelton. BTW, if you get
down there, pop on ch 13 and tell Master Blaster that Crazy 1 said howdy.


Surely you jest. Those little 3 inch "radial" kits were nothing more
than a gimmick. First of all, they were attached to the "active" side
of the antenna, and secondly they were way too small to make any
appreciable affect on signal.

To make any difference, it would have to provide a counterpoise which
was greater than the surface area of the car the antenna was attached
to.

I've known people who ran them, and other than look cool, they did
nothing for them........

Dave
"Sandbagger"

Dave:

I noted increased signal strength with it on, on both transmit and
receive..

The star didn't touch the "active" side at all.. it was on the shield
side of the equation..

Perhaps the star, being so close to the sheetmetal of the roof (on the
magmount), increased the capacitance, thus increasing the capacitive
grounding, providing a better RF ground. Who knows. I didn't have the
equipment to test for that 10 years ago when I had one I don't now,
either.. All I know is, it did more than look cool.

-SSB

Dave Hall wrote:

Surely you jest. Those little 3 inch "radial" kits were nothing more
than a gimmick. First of all, they were attached to the "active" side
of the antenna, and secondly they were way too small to make any
appreciable affect on signal.

To make any difference, it would have to provide a counterpoise which
was greater than the surface area of the car the antenna was attached
to.

I've known people who ran them, and other than look cool, they did
nothing for them........

Dave
"Sandbagger"

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:24:56 GMT, sideband wrote:

Dave:

I noted increased signal strength with it on, on both transmit and
receive..

The star didn't touch the "active" side at all.. it was on the shield
side of the equation..

Perhaps the star, being so close to the sheetmetal of the roof (on the
magmount), increased the capacitance, thus increasing the capacitive
grounding, providing a better RF ground. Who knows. I didn't have the
equipment to test for that 10 years ago when I had one I don't now,
either.. All I know is, it did more than look cool.


But you do understand how it would be difficult to understand how a
series of small radials could do a better job at being a counterpoise
than the large amount of metal in the car body? A good counterpoise is
all about surface area. For a counterpose to be effective at CB
frequencies, the radial length has to be at least a 1/8th wave which
is about 4.5 feet.

The numbers just don't add up. But this isn't the first time I've
heard people swear that some "product" they bought improved their
performance, and it made no logical sense from an engineering
standpoint, so who knows......

Dave
"Sandbagger"

Dave:

Of course I understand that reasoning. I don't think the function of
the star was to act as ground radials at all, but to increase the
coupling to RF ground. I had a mag mount Wilson 1000 on the roof of
the cab of a '94 Ranger pickup. It did well. I added the star, it did
much better.

Forgive me if I'm rambling a bit. I just got back from surgery and am
flying a bit high on Vicodin. Just had my gallbladder out this
morning. They used a scope to do it. Pretty cool. I have pictures.

-SSB

Dave Hall wrote:
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:24:56 GMT, sideband wrote:


Dave:

I noted increased signal strength with it on, on both transmit and
receive..

The star didn't touch the "active" side at all.. it was on the shield
side of the equation..

Perhaps the star, being so close to the sheetmetal of the roof (on the
magmount), increased the capacitance, thus increasing the capacitive
grounding, providing a better RF ground. Who knows. I didn't have the
equipment to test for that 10 years ago when I had one I don't now,
either.. All I know is, it did more than look cool.



But you do understand how it would be difficult to understand how a
series of small radials could do a better job at being a counterpoise
than the large amount of metal in the car body? A good counterpoise is
all about surface area. For a counterpose to be effective at CB
frequencies, the radial length has to be at least a 1/8th wave which
is about 4.5 feet.

The numbers just don't add up. But this isn't the first time I've
heard people swear that some "product" they bought improved their
performance, and it made no logical sense from an engineering
standpoint, so who knows......

Dave
"Sandbagger"

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:24:56 GMT, sideband wrote:

Dave:

I noted increased signal strength with it on, on both transmit and
receive..

The star didn't touch the "active" side at all.. it was on the shield
side of the equation..

Perhaps the star, being so close to the sheetmetal of the roof (on the
magmount), increased the capacitance, thus increasing the capacitive
grounding, providing a better RF ground. Who knows. I didn't have the
equipment to test for that 10 years ago when I had one I don't now,
either.. All I know is, it did more than look cool.


But you do understand how it would be difficult to understand how a
series of small radials could do a better job at being a counterpoise
than the large amount of metal in the car body? A good counterpoise is
all about surface area. For a counterpose to be effective at CB
frequencies, the radial length has to be at least a 1/8th wave which
is about 4.5 feet.

The numbers just don't add up. But this isn't the first time I've
heard people swear that some "product" they bought improved their
performance, and it made no logical sense from an engineering
standpoint, so who knows......

Dave
"Sandbagger"
I have seen the addition of these"ground planes" result in a lower on mirror
mounted antennas. I believe that is primarily what they were designed. The
improvement may have made some measurable improvement in transmit or receive
capabilities of a radio but I doubt if it was anything you could hear.