On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:25:37 -0800, Paul Johnson
wrote:

Vinnie S. wrote:

So is driving 56 mph in a 55. But I am sure you have never done that.
Hypocracy at it's finest.

Depends on the state. Most states give you 10% leeway for differences in
speedometer calibration. Oregon doesn't have speed limits in most places,
opting for a less strictly enforced posted speed (difference is the posted
speed signs say SPEED, whereas hard limits say SPEED LIMIT). In either
case, if conditions are bad, you can get a speeding ticket for going slower
than the posted speed (ie, doing 50 in a 60 zone on ice).

In Pa. they are required to give 5 MPH to take care of "Speedometer"
and speed measuring inaccuracies. In addition, just to avoid court
challenges to the precise accuracy of the speed measuring equipment
(Usually VASCAR on non-state patrolled roads, and RADAR on state
police patrolled roads), most of the cops I know tell me that they
unofficially give people 9 MPH over the posted limit before they start
pulling people over. Of course there might be a new hard-assed rookie
who might not be so "kind".......

Dave
"Sandbagger"

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:56:05 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:25:37 -0800, Paul Johnson
wrote:

Vinnie S. wrote:

So is driving 56 mph in a 55. But I am sure you have never done that.
Hypocracy at it's finest.

Depends on the state. Most states give you 10% leeway for differences in
speedometer calibration. Oregon doesn't have speed limits in most places,
opting for a less strictly enforced posted speed (difference is the posted
speed signs say SPEED, whereas hard limits say SPEED LIMIT). In either
case, if conditions are bad, you can get a speeding ticket for going slower
than the posted speed (ie, doing 50 in a 60 zone on ice).

In Pa. they are required to give 5 MPH to take care of "Speedometer"
and speed measuring inaccuracies. In addition, just to avoid court
challenges to the precise accuracy of the speed measuring equipment
(Usually VASCAR on non-state patrolled roads, and RADAR on state
police patrolled roads), most of the cops I know tell me that they
unofficially give people 9 MPH over the posted limit before they start
pulling people over. Of course there might be a new hard-assed rookie
who might not be so "kind".......


My brother in law is a cop. It's at the descretion of the cop. Since most often
this is a revenue generating system. The judge and cop are on the same municipal
team. If they want to beat you at 1 mph, they will. The reason they give 10mph
extra, is because everyone goes over the speed limit. They would be up to their
ears in court. So they take the abusers. But I highly doubt it's the
inaccuracies of the equipment or speedometers, because like you said, some
states have zero tolerance. So don't think you can claim the equipment is
inaccurate in one state, and perfect in another. I really think it's just the
descretion of the cop.

Vinnie S.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 16:39:56 -0500, Vinnie S.
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:56:05 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:25:37 -0800, Paul Johnson
wrote:

Vinnie S. wrote:

So is driving 56 mph in a 55. But I am sure you have never done that.
Hypocracy at it's finest.

Depends on the state. Most states give you 10% leeway for differences in
speedometer calibration. Oregon doesn't have speed limits in most places,
opting for a less strictly enforced posted speed (difference is the posted
speed signs say SPEED, whereas hard limits say SPEED LIMIT). In either
case, if conditions are bad, you can get a speeding ticket for going slower
than the posted speed (ie, doing 50 in a 60 zone on ice).

In Pa. they are required to give 5 MPH to take care of "Speedometer"
and speed measuring inaccuracies. In addition, just to avoid court
challenges to the precise accuracy of the speed measuring equipment
(Usually VASCAR on non-state patrolled roads, and RADAR on state
police patrolled roads), most of the cops I know tell me that they
unofficially give people 9 MPH over the posted limit before they start
pulling people over. Of course there might be a new hard-assed rookie
who might not be so "kind".......


My brother in law is a cop. It's at the descretion of the cop. Since most often
this is a revenue generating system. The judge and cop are on the same municipal
team. If they want to beat you at 1 mph, they will. The reason they give 10mph
extra, is because everyone goes over the speed limit. They would be up to their
ears in court. So they take the abusers. But I highly doubt it's the
inaccuracies of the equipment or speedometers, because like you said, some
states have zero tolerance. So don't think you can claim the equipment is
inaccurate in one state, and perfect in another. I really think it's just the
descretion of the cop.

Well, in all honesty, it mostly is at the cop's discretion, and they
know that if they want to really bust someone's stones for 1 or 2 MPH
over, they stand a good chance of losing in court. RADAR has been
taken to court before (I remember a somewhat famous one involved
pointing a RADAR gun at a tree and recording over 100 MPH). Traffic
volume, calibration certification, humidity, weather, terrain and a
host of other conditions can affect the accuracy. If you are someone
who does his homework, and presents this in court, most judges will
throw it out for such a small number.

VASCAR since it is a manual timing device, can be even more prone to
inaccuracies.

It's more of an unwritten rule in Pa., that they "give" you 5 MPH, but
all of the cops I know pretty much told me the same thing, and that is
that they don't start pulling people over until they hit 10 MPH over.

I'm sure it's different in other states.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

David T. Hall wrote:
In Pa. they are required to give 5 MPH to take

care of "Speedometer" and speed measuring

inaccuracies



I am glad you availed yourself the facts of the matter and reclarified
your bull**** above with:

Well, in all honesty, it mostly is at the cop's

discretion,

It's more of an unwritten rule in Pa., that they

"give" you 5 MPH,


That's a far cry from you claiming it was a "requirement" the Pa. police
*give* you the extra speed of a few miles per hour. Nevertheless, you
illustrate once again you speak of things you know nothing of (the law)
and do not need Frank to make you reverse your earlier position. Since
you realized your error, there is no need to provide you with the Pa.
vehicle code. Flip-flop.

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:12:10 -0500, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:

David T. Hall wrote:
In Pa. they are required to give 5 MPH to take

care of "Speedometer" and speed measuring

inaccuracies



I am glad you availed yourself the facts of the matter and reclarified
your bull**** above with:

Well, in all honesty, it mostly is at the cop's

discretion,

It's more of an unwritten rule in Pa., that they

"give" you 5 MPH,


That's a far cry from you claiming it was a "requirement" the Pa. police
*give* you the extra speed of a few miles per hour. Nevertheless, you
illustrate once again you speak of things you know nothing of (the law)
and do not need Frank to make you reverse your earlier position. Since
you realized your error, there is no need to provide you with the Pa.
vehicle code. Flip-flop.

True to form, you show up to pick yet another bowl of nits. It is an
unwritten "requirement" in order to avoid the pain of fighting in
court. The courts have a history of throwing out speed citations for
small amounts, due to the potential for inaccuracies in both the car
speedometer and the speed measuring devices. The success rate for
having these fines "stick" increases greatly when the amounts exceed 5
MPH over.

I've gotten the same story from several different cops who work in
different precincts and the state police.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

From: (Dave=A0Hall)
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:12:10 -0500, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:
David T. Hall wrote:
In Pa. they are required to give 5 MPH to take

care of "Speedometer" and speed measuring

inaccuracies

I am glad you availed yourself the facts of the matter and reclarified
your bull**** above with:

Well, in all honesty, it mostly is at the cop's

discretion,

It's more of an unwritten rule in Pa., that they

"give" you 5 MPH,

That's a far cry from you claiming it was a "requirement" the Pa. police
*give* you the extra speed of a few miles per hour. Nevertheless, you
illustrate once again you speak of things you know nothing of (the law)
and do not need Frank to make you reverse your earlier position. Since
you realized your error, there is no need to provide you with the Pa.
vehicle code. Flip-flop.

True to form, you


Ahhh,,,,unable to defend the topic, junior does what all unskilled and
uneducated louts do,,,they attack the chatter. Dave, you have always
been a lid and have one hell of a time debating void of emotion. Get
educated, junior.

show up to pick yet another

bowl of nits.

So sorry you feel persecuted again, Junior, yet, illustrating your
self-contradictory claims has a rather unnerving effect on you. Call it
whatever your bruised ego dictates, you talk sideways.


It is an unwritten "requirement" in order to

avoid the pain of fighting in court.


What insight,,,,if it's "unwritten", it doesn't exist as a requirement,
Dave, no matter WHAT you try to explain you "mean" by it.

The courts have a history of throwing out



(snip)

Not relevant. Your claim that is was a requirement degraded to your
current claim it is now a "unwritten" requirement, yet, according to
you, 'friends' of yours are cops who affirmed both your claims. Well,
Dave, you are full of **** again. I posed your question to several LEOs
in a traffic forum and you are wrong. Need the URL? Care to join me
where you can be educated by actual Pa. leos?

speed citations for small amounts, due to the

potential for inaccuracies in both the car

speedometer and the speed measuring

devices.



The success rate for having these

fines "stick" increases greatly when the

amounts exceed 5 MPH over.


And has nothing to do with any "unwritten requirement". If it is
unwritten, it can not be a requirement LEOs must follow.

I've gotten the same story from several

different cops who work in different precincts

and the state police.


LOL,,sure, sure, just like those you claimed agreed with you that roger
beeps are illegal, only you menstruate when asked to actually provide
for such a claim.
No, you haven't been told that by any Pa. cop, and the LEO forum serves
to illustrate your degeneration caused by pathological lies.

David T. Hall Jr

n3cvj

"Sandbagger"

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:12:12 -0500, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:


True to form, you


Ahhh,,,,unable to defend the topic, junior does what all unskilled and
uneducated louts do,,,they attack the chatter. Dave, you have always
been a lid and have one hell of a time debating void of emotion. Get
educated, junior.

show up to pick yet another

bowl of nits.

So sorry you feel persecuted again, Junior, yet, illustrating your
self-contradictory claims has a rather unnerving effect on you. Call it
whatever your bruised ego dictates, you talk sideways.

Nonetheless, you are picking nits. As you always do.


Not relevant. Your claim that is was a requirement degraded to your
current claim it is now a "unwritten" requirement, yet, according to
you, 'friends' of yours are cops who affirmed both your claims. Well,
Dave, you are full of **** again. I posed your question to several LEOs
in a traffic forum and you are wrong. Need the URL? Care to join me
where you can be educated by actual Pa. leos?

That's interesting. Your adoration with me has made you go through the
trouble of actually seeking out and finding these mythical LEO's, just
to pose this question. Which you did and got a reply back in less than
a day. Wow.

I'm sure this "group" in the same place as that fictitious military
group that you tried to snow Frank with. But sure, go ahead and give
it to me. If nothing else, it'll be good for a laugh or two.


No, you haven't been told that by any Pa. cop, and the LEO forum serves
to illustrate your degeneration caused by pathological lies.


Prove it. Provide the URL.

Prediction: nothing will result.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:12:12 -0500, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:

From: (Dave*Hall)
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:12:10 -0500, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:
David T. Hall wrote:
In Pa. they are required to give 5 MPH to take

care of "Speedometer" and speed measuring

inaccuracies

I am glad you availed yourself the facts of the matter and reclarified
your bull**** above with:

Well, in all honesty, it mostly is at the cop's

discretion,

It's more of an unwritten rule in Pa., that they

"give" you 5 MPH,

That's a far cry from you claiming it was a "requirement" the Pa. police
*give* you the extra speed of a few miles per hour. Nevertheless, you
illustrate once again you speak of things you know nothing of (the law)
and do not need Frank to make you reverse your earlier position. Since
you realized your error, there is no need to provide you with the Pa.
vehicle code. Flip-flop.

You're right. I shouldn't have deviated from my original stance since,
as it turns out, I was right about it.

See:

http://members.aol.com/StatutesP1/75PA3368.html

Pay particular attention to 3368 (c) number 4., which states:

"No person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through the use of
devices authorized by paragraphs (2) and (3) unless the speed recorded
is six or more miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit.
Furthermore, no person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through
the use of devices authorized by paragraph (3) in an area where the
legal speed limit is less than 55 miles per hour if the speed recorded
is less than ten miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit.
This paragraph shall not apply to evidence obtained through the use of
devices authorized by paragraph (3) within a school zone"



So what were you saying about knowing the law?


Dave
"Sandbagger"

True to form, you


Ahhh,,,,unable to defend the topic, junior does what all unskilled and
uneducated louts do,,,they attack the chatter. Dave, you have always
been a lid and have one hell of a time debating void of emotion. Get
educated, junior.

show up to pick yet another

bowl of nits.

So sorry you feel persecuted again, Junior, yet, illustrating your
self-contradictory claims has a rather unnerving effect on you. Call it
whatever your bruised ego dictates, you talk sideways.


It is an unwritten "requirement" in order to

avoid the pain of fighting in court.


What insight,,,,if it's "unwritten", it doesn't exist as a requirement,
Dave, no matter WHAT you try to explain you "mean" by it.

The courts have a history of throwing out



(snip)

Not relevant. Your claim that is was a requirement degraded to your
current claim it is now a "unwritten" requirement, yet, according to
you, 'friends' of yours are cops who affirmed both your claims. Well,
Dave, you are full of **** again. I posed your question to several LEOs
in a traffic forum and you are wrong. Need the URL? Care to join me
where you can be educated by actual Pa. leos?

speed citations for small amounts, due to the

potential for inaccuracies in both the car

speedometer and the speed measuring

devices.



The success rate for having these

fines "stick" increases greatly when the

amounts exceed 5 MPH over.


And has nothing to do with any "unwritten requirement". If it is
unwritten, it can not be a requirement LEOs must follow.

I've gotten the same story from several

different cops who work in different precincts

and the state police.


LOL,,sure, sure, just like those you claimed agreed with you that roger
beeps are illegal, only you menstruate when asked to actually provide
for such a claim.
No, you haven't been told that by any Pa. cop, and the LEO forum serves
to illustrate your degeneration caused by pathological lies.

David T. Hall Jr

n3cvj

"Sandbagger"