On Mon, 16 May 2005 13:46:48 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:56:31 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
See, this is what's so puzzling about you Frank. Once in a while you
unload with a brilliant piece of perspective, which is at total odds
with your status in life. You're one hell of an underachiever.


Dr. Kramer probably wouldn't agree. Do you want the book or not?

Frank, I can get as much information as I need right from the
internet. It's a lot better than finding places to keep all those
books.


Hence the source of your ingnorance and the reason you find me to be
so "puzzling".

No, I find you puzzling because you are so pompous and arrogant about
what you claim as "knowledge" yet, the application of such knowledge
in your own life has been dismally short of achievement. You are
either an accomplished liar, or a severe underachiever.

For a guy who claims to know as much, and has done as much as you have
claimed, all you have to show for yourself is a job as a bartender,
driving a 20+ year old vehicle? You're a regular Cliff Clavin.
Now you muse about starting a lawn care service. No offense to Steveo,
but that's not exactly the skill level job that a man of your supposed
"credentials" should be aspiring to.

So, what's your (latest) excuse?

A man who truly knows the things that you try to pass off to the rest
of us here, would be in a high level engineering or marketing
position, or perhaps a stint as a university professor, or maybe a
government contractor. Or maybe you'd work with me.

The bottom line Frank, is that you talk a great line, but you produce
very little. I can tell that by the way you approach CB radio
troubleshooting. You offer only generic troubleshooting 101 solutions
to problems, which indicates that you have very little direct
experience with actually repairing a CB radio, which have known
problem areas.

But you go right ahead and limit yourself to the
internet for your sole source of information

Once again you make assumptions, a repetitive pattern for you. I never
said the internet was my SOLE source of information. But it is the
fastest and easiest source of information on a variety of topics,
especially current events. It was the internet, that first blew the
lid off of "Rathergate", and exposed it as the propaganda smear that
it was intended to be. The Blog has become a powerful tool to expose
media bias and helps to parse the stories in order to gain the truth.
Sure you can read about something in a book, but the internet is
instantaneous, interactive, and ever evolving. There are decisive
advantages to that.

-- let me know when you
find the winding specifications for an Ajax M-2-145T, or the firearm
most preferred by Deep-River Jim, or why Bessie slashed up her own
portrait.

If I had any interest in those subjects, I'm sure I'd find them,
assuming these people are significant.

But while we're on the subject, I have found much information on the
local history of my local area, and the trolley, rail, and canal lines
that used to run through here over the turn of the century. I have
found the horsepower specifications for the triple expansion 4
cylinder piston engines in the Titanic, as well as the Parson's
Turbine center engine. I have tracked radio wave propagation, tides, a
web cam of my favorite lake, and my friend's pool. There is nothing
you can read in print, than can't be scanned into a web page, or pdf
file. I have the complete Cisco router manuals on CD ROM. I have
access to repeater user's groups where we can seek out and share each
other's expertise to solve problems. The list is endless Frank.

I might read an intriguing novel by the fireplace on a cool winter's
night, but if it's information that I want, the fingers fly to the
keyboard.


Find a link that explains why you can see the Douglas Firs
towering above you in the middle of the woods on a pitch-black and
starless night.

I'd rather just witness that myself first hand. I do a lot of camping
you know.


Download the feelings of watching Israeli officers
picking off Palistinian schoolkids running out of a burning building
like they were ducks in a shooting gallery.

And what? You read that in a book? I've come close though. I have
corresponded, via E-Mail, with U.S. army folks fighting in Iraq, in
order to get their personal perspective on the situation. It's a far
different picture than what the mainstream media wants us to think.


I'm sure you can find a
site that has the cyber-smell file of a Northwest sawmill.

As I'm sure you can from a book. But you can go to a Home Depot and
get a similar effect.

And I'm
sure there's some adapter you can plug into the USB port that will let
you enjoy the unmatched hospitality (and world-class pastries) offered
by a family of Norwegians when all you did was ask to fill up your
water can.

When have you been to Norway? Did you need to order some new imported
beer for the bar?


The internet is fun but it's no substitute for books, people, nature,
or direct experiences. But you think that you can get everything you
need from your computer. You are a fool, Dave.

I never claimed to get ALL of my information from the internet. Only
that I can research any topic that I wish on the internet and get the
same or better information a heck of a lot quicker and easier than
using the old fashioned method of buying (or borrowing) a book.

You, on the other hand, need to get away from the left coast. It's
really affecting your perception.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

On Tue, 17 May 2005 07:32:43 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

On Mon, 16 May 2005 13:46:48 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:56:31 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
See, this is what's so puzzling about you Frank. Once in a while you
unload with a brilliant piece of perspective, which is at total odds
with your status in life. You're one hell of an underachiever.


Dr. Kramer probably wouldn't agree. Do you want the book or not?

Frank, I can get as much information as I need right from the
internet. It's a lot better than finding places to keep all those
books.


Hence the source of your ingnorance and the reason you find me to be
so "puzzling".

No, I find you puzzling because you are so pompous and arrogant about
what you claim as "knowledge" yet, the application of such knowledge
in your own life has been dismally short of achievement. You are
either an accomplished liar, or a severe underachiever.


You ignore any other possibilities.


For a guy who claims to know as much, and has done as much as you have
claimed, all you have to show for yourself is a job as a bartender,
driving a 20+ year old vehicle?


Only if that's how you measure "achievement". I'm not that
superficial.


You're a regular Cliff Clavin.


Even if I did work for the USPS, I'd rather deliver mail than pizzas.


Now you muse about starting a lawn care service. No offense to Steveo,
but that's not exactly the skill level job that a man of your supposed
"credentials" should be aspiring to.


By your standards. But you can't seem to understand that not everyone
lives by your standards, Dave.


So, what's your (latest) excuse?

A man who truly knows the things that you try to pass off to the rest
of us here, would be in a high level engineering or marketing
position,


Done that. Boring.


or perhaps a stint as a university professor,


Done that. Fun, but the pay sucks until you get tenure.


or maybe a
government contractor.


No thanks, I've taken a look at a few government contracts. They
barely fit the definition of "legally binding".


Or maybe you'd work with me.


Doubtful. I -order- pizzas, I don't deliver them.


The bottom line Frank, is that you talk a great line, but you produce
very little. I can tell that by the way you approach CB radio
troubleshooting. You offer only generic troubleshooting 101 solutions
to problems, which indicates that you have very little direct
experience with actually repairing a CB radio, which have known
problem areas.


Uh-huh, that's why I narrowed the buzzing-radio problem down to the
voltage regulator while you were busy defending your highly
generalized assumption that the problem is "almost always caps", huh?


But you go right ahead and limit yourself to the
internet for your sole source of information

Once again you make assumptions, a repetitive pattern for you. I never
said the internet was my SOLE source of information.


Wrong. You said, "I can get as much information as I need right from
the internet." You can try and spin the semantics all you want but it
means the same thing.


But it is the
fastest and easiest source of information on a variety of topics,
especially current events. It was the internet, that first blew the
lid off of "Rathergate", and exposed it as the propaganda smear that
it was intended to be. The Blog has become a powerful tool to expose
media bias and helps to parse the stories in order to gain the truth.
Sure you can read about something in a book, but the internet is
instantaneous, interactive, and ever evolving. There are decisive
advantages to that.


Speaking of 'media bias', are you keeping up-to-date on the status of
one of your staunchly anti-gay, conservative Republicans that happens
to be the mayor of my home town?

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/jimwest/


-- let me know when you
find the winding specifications for an Ajax M-2-145T, or the firearm
most preferred by Deep-River Jim, or why Bessie slashed up her own
portrait.

If I had any interest in those subjects, I'm sure I'd find them,
assuming these people are significant.


I doubt you could find them even if you wanted to.


But while we're on the subject, I have found much information on the
local history of my local area, and the trolley, rail, and canal lines
that used to run through here over the turn of the century. I have
found the horsepower specifications for the triple expansion 4
cylinder piston engines in the Titanic, as well as the Parson's
Turbine center engine. I have tracked radio wave propagation, tides, a
web cam of my favorite lake, and my friend's pool. There is nothing
you can read in print, than can't be scanned into a web page, or pdf
file.


Yet so much -hasn't- been scanned.


I have the complete Cisco router manuals on CD ROM. I have
access to repeater user's groups where we can seek out and share each
other's expertise to solve problems. The list is endless Frank.


It's far from endless, Dave. It doesn't even have endless potential.


I might read an intriguing novel by the fireplace on a cool winter's
night, but if it's information that I want, the fingers fly to the
keyboard.


Find a link that explains why you can see the Douglas Firs
towering above you in the middle of the woods on a pitch-black and
starless night.

I'd rather just witness that myself first hand. I do a lot of camping
you know.


No, I don't know. If you haven't witnessed what I described then maybe
you haven't done as much camping as you claim.


Download the feelings of watching Israeli officers
picking off Palistinian schoolkids running out of a burning building
like they were ducks in a shooting gallery.

And what? You read that in a book?


No, I was there, fool. How long have you -really- been in this
newsgroup?


I've come close though. I have
corresponded, via E-Mail, with U.S. army folks fighting in Iraq, in
order to get their personal perspective on the situation. It's a far
different picture than what the mainstream media wants us to think.


You don't have a clue, Dave. I'm sure you can exercise your
imagination, but there are experiences in combat situations that have
no comparison or common frame of reference to pizza delivery drivers.


I'm sure you can find a
site that has the cyber-smell file of a Northwest sawmill.

As I'm sure you can from a book. But you can go to a Home Depot and
get a similar effect.


It's not the same. It's like saying you know what a homemade apple pie
tastes like because you once bought a Hostess pastry at the 7/11.


And I'm
sure there's some adapter you can plug into the USB port that will let
you enjoy the unmatched hospitality (and world-class pastries) offered
by a family of Norwegians when all you did was ask to fill up your
water can.

When have you been to Norway?


1984.


Did you need to order some new imported
beer for the bar?


No, but I did buy a large 'Norwegian' Bud at a small grocery store. I
think I still have the label stashed away somewhere. I also might have
a couple labels from bottles of Maccabe beer from Israel. I'm pretty
sure I have a couple phone tokens and a few sheckels in coins.


The internet is fun but it's no substitute for books, people, nature,
or direct experiences. But you think that you can get everything you
need from your computer. You are a fool, Dave.

I never claimed to get ALL of my information from the internet. Only
that I can research any topic that I wish on the internet and get the
same or better information a heck of a lot quicker and easier than
using the old fashioned method of buying (or borrowing) a book.


That's only true if the info is available on the net. So much info
-isn't- on the net.


You, on the other hand, need to get away from the left coast. It's
really affecting your perception.


"The West is the best".







----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Tue, 17 May 2005 05:40:36 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2005 07:32:43 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

On Mon, 16 May 2005 13:46:48 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:56:31 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
See, this is what's so puzzling about you Frank. Once in a while you
unload with a brilliant piece of perspective, which is at total odds
with your status in life. You're one hell of an underachiever.


Dr. Kramer probably wouldn't agree. Do you want the book or not?

Frank, I can get as much information as I need right from the
internet. It's a lot better than finding places to keep all those
books.


Hence the source of your ingnorance and the reason you find me to be
so "puzzling".

No, I find you puzzling because you are so pompous and arrogant about
what you claim as "knowledge" yet, the application of such knowledge
in your own life has been dismally short of achievement. You are
either an accomplished liar, or a severe underachiever.


You ignore any other possibilities.

Yes, I ignored many possibilities in order to focus on the two most
likely PROBABILITIES.


For a guy who claims to know as much, and has done as much as you have
claimed, all you have to show for yourself is a job as a bartender,
driving a 20+ year old vehicle?


Only if that's how you measure "achievement". I'm not that
superficial.

Yea, we all know how superficial the pursuit of a person's greatest
potential is.


You're a regular Cliff Clavin.


Even if I did work for the USPS, I'd rather deliver mail than pizzas.

So would I. The bennies are pretty good when you work for the
government.



Now you muse about starting a lawn care service. No offense to Steveo,
but that's not exactly the skill level job that a man of your supposed
"credentials" should be aspiring to.


By your standards. But you can't seem to understand that not everyone
lives by your standards, Dave.

Yea, I know, you're an underachiever by choice. That's what they all
say.......



So, what's your (latest) excuse?

A man who truly knows the things that you try to pass off to the rest
of us here, would be in a high level engineering or marketing
position,


Done that. Boring.


or perhaps a stint as a university professor,


Done that. Fun, but the pay sucks until you get tenure.

An interesting comment from someone who just a few lines back claimed
to be "not that superficial".

or maybe a
government contractor.


No thanks, I've taken a look at a few government contracts. They
barely fit the definition of "legally binding".

Now, let's take a closer look at this, and expose just why these
answers that you gave are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you
were in the military in the mid 80's, then worked for a while. Then
you went back to school (presumably because you had trouble finding a
decent job). Now a BS program requires a 4 year course study at a
minimum. Assuming you're not living at home sponging off mon and dad,
you're going to have to work to make ends meet, which means a leaner
curriculum, and a longer time frame. Personal experience has shown me
that a night school BS degree can take up to 8 years to complete. But
even so, you likely did not receive your degree until the 90's. Now, a
BS in engineering does not, in itself qualify you to teach. You would
also need additional education to receive a teaching certificate. Then
there is the issue of experience. Most guys straight out of school are
not worth a heck of a lot, and are usually hired at entry level
positions in order to gain experience. During this time, you've also
claimed to have worked as a broadcast engineer at 2 different radio
stations (which is probably the only truth).

So, in a period of time that spans no more than about 10 to 15 years,
you want us to believe that you've been a broadcast engineer, worked
in marketing and design engineering (even with no previous related
experience), and taught at a university (Even without any teaching
experience in "lower" educational institutions). Man, you're one busy
guy Frank. So, I guess the stint tending bar is just a result of
"burnout" from all that achieving?

Either you just can't seem to figure out what you want to do for a
living, or you like to tell tall tales.


Or maybe you'd work with me.


Doubtful. I -order- pizzas, I don't deliver them.

Ah yes, the other defense mechanism typical from an underachiever with
self esteem issues. It is certainly more comforting, to someone in
your predicament, to accuse and believe that others are worse off than
you are thereby justifying, to some degree, your own failures. So if
you want to believe that I deliver pizza's for a living (And
supporting a family, a large home, a boat, camper, and 3 vehicles on
that salary) so that you can feel better about yourself, then I'll go
along with it. Heck, I'd hate to think you went for the razor blades
or the old rubber hose from the tailpipe on my account.


The bottom line Frank, is that you talk a great line, but you produce
very little. I can tell that by the way you approach CB radio
troubleshooting. You offer only generic troubleshooting 101 solutions
to problems, which indicates that you have very little direct
experience with actually repairing a CB radio, which have known
problem areas.


Uh-huh, that's why I narrowed the buzzing-radio problem down to the
voltage regulator while you were busy defending your highly
generalized assumption that the problem is "almost always caps", huh?

The final answer to that question was never realized. Your continued
egotistical need to belittle me in that thread most likely chased the
original poster away.


But you go right ahead and limit yourself to the
internet for your sole source of information

Once again you make assumptions, a repetitive pattern for you. I never
said the internet was my SOLE source of information.


Wrong. You said, "I can get as much information as I need right from
the internet." You can try and spin the semantics all you want but it
means the same thing.

Which means exactly that, I can get the factual information that I
need from the internet. That does not mean that I get life EXPERIENCE
from the internet, as you attempted to claim with later examples.



But it is the
fastest and easiest source of information on a variety of topics,
especially current events. It was the internet, that first blew the
lid off of "Rathergate", and exposed it as the propaganda smear that
it was intended to be. The Blog has become a powerful tool to expose
media bias and helps to parse the stories in order to gain the truth.
Sure you can read about something in a book, but the internet is
instantaneous, interactive, and ever evolving. There are decisive
advantages to that.


Speaking of 'media bias', are you keeping up-to-date on the status of
one of your staunchly anti-gay, conservative Republicans that happens
to be the mayor of my home town?

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/jimwest/


No, I'm more interested in the criminal activities surrounding the
associates of the democratic mayor of Philadelphia in a "Pay to play"
scandal. It is, after all, more regionally relevant for me.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10995886.htm


-- let me know when you
find the winding specifications for an Ajax M-2-145T, or the firearm
most preferred by Deep-River Jim, or why Bessie slashed up her own
portrait.

If I had any interest in those subjects, I'm sure I'd find them,
assuming these people are significant.


I doubt you could find them even if you wanted to.

If that's truly the case, then it's equally likely that I'd have
little interest.




But while we're on the subject, I have found much information on the
local history of my local area, and the trolley, rail, and canal lines
that used to run through here over the turn of the century. I have
found the horsepower specifications for the triple expansion 4
cylinder piston engines in the Titanic, as well as the Parson's
Turbine center engine. I have tracked radio wave propagation, tides, a
web cam of my favorite lake, and my friend's pool. There is nothing
you can read in print, than can't be scanned into a web page, or pdf
file.


Yet so much -hasn't- been scanned.

Key Word: "Yet".

All I can say is that I sure wish I had the tools of the internet and
computers back when I had to do term papers. The task would have been
much less tedious and actually somewhat interesting, and fun.


There will be a time, in the not so distant future, where all
published works will be delivered in electronic format. Printed books
will become museum attractions, for those desiring a return to the
"quaint old days". I am currently involved in projects that enable
much of the concept of a seamless central home voice, video, and data
model.


I have the complete Cisco router manuals on CD ROM. I have
access to repeater user's groups where we can seek out and share each
other's expertise to solve problems. The list is endless Frank.


It's far from endless, Dave. It doesn't even have endless potential.

Ok, so it's "virtually" (no pun) endless.



I might read an intriguing novel by the fireplace on a cool winter's
night, but if it's information that I want, the fingers fly to the
keyboard.


Find a link that explains why you can see the Douglas Firs
towering above you in the middle of the woods on a pitch-black and
starless night.

I'd rather just witness that myself first hand. I do a lot of camping
you know.


No, I don't know. If you haven't witnessed what I described then maybe
you haven't done as much camping as you claim.

I have seen trees of all sorts towering over me at night. There's no
mystery to this. Even on a moonless and cloudy night, there is still
enough ambient light to show the silhouettes of the trees.


Download the feelings of watching Israeli officers
picking off Palistinian schoolkids running out of a burning building
like they were ducks in a shooting gallery.

And what? You read that in a book?


No, I was there, fool. How long have you -really- been in this
newsgroup?

Oh, that's right, you were in the military.

I've come close though. I have
corresponded, via E-Mail, with U.S. army folks fighting in Iraq, in
order to get their personal perspective on the situation. It's a far
different picture than what the mainstream media wants us to think.


You don't have a clue, Dave.

So, are you claiming that these people are lying to me? People that I
am related to or friends with?

I'm sure you can exercise your
imagination, but there are experiences in combat situations that have
no comparison or common frame of reference to pizza delivery drivers.

Ah, that underachiever's ego feel good justification rears its ugly
head once again. It's curious (maybe not so) that you stoop to that
level when you cannot counter my points with any facts. That leave
nothing but insults. Your case gets weaker by the day.


I'm sure you can find a
site that has the cyber-smell file of a Northwest sawmill.

As I'm sure you can from a book. But you can go to a Home Depot and
get a similar effect.

It's not the same. It's like saying you know what a homemade apple pie
tastes like because you once bought a Hostess pastry at the 7/11.

Assuming I have a desire to make an apple pie.


And I'm
sure there's some adapter you can plug into the USB port that will let
you enjoy the unmatched hospitality (and world-class pastries) offered
by a family of Norwegians when all you did was ask to fill up your
water can.

When have you been to Norway?


1984.

Ah, another port of call for the traveling military grunt on Uncle
Sam's nickel. It's a far different experience traveling, when you can
stay at a 4 or 5 star hotel on the company tab. The downside though is
that the food can get a bit rich and that tends to make the job of
maintaining my boyish figure a bit more difficult ;-)

I've never been to Norway, although I came close to hitting Amsterdam.
I managed to get out of going because I didn't want to leave my wife
and then infant daughter home alone for a few weeks. I don't like
traveling to foreign countries anyway. Especially with the
anti-American sentiment going around. But there are a lot of very nice
U.S. cities that I've liked. Mostly I remember them due to interesting
eateries the I've found there. The "Wattaburger" in Brownsville Texas,
Dickies Ribs in Dallas, Farmer Jones' Red Barn in Lakeland Florida,
Nandell's Inn in Seattle, The Airplane themed pub (the name escapes
me) across from Mitchell airport in Milwaukee, and many others.

We could talk about airports too. Even those folks in Denver and San
Francisco want their pizza's delivered hot and fresh, even if it takes
5 hours to get there.


Did you need to order some new imported
beer for the bar?


No, but I did buy a large 'Norwegian' Bud at a small grocery store. I
think I still have the label stashed away somewhere. I also might have
a couple labels from bottles of Maccabe beer from Israel. I'm pretty
sure I have a couple phone tokens and a few sheckels in coins.

Ah, souvenirs. I have a can of Junkanoo punch from the Bahamas, a can
of Taiwan beer from Taipei, the strange looking "old fashioned" styled
Coke bottle from Mexico (The water sucks in Mexico, but the Coca-Cola
is much better).


The internet is fun but it's no substitute for books, people, nature,
or direct experiences. But you think that you can get everything you
need from your computer. You are a fool, Dave.

I never claimed to get ALL of my information from the internet. Only
that I can research any topic that I wish on the internet and get the
same or better information a heck of a lot quicker and easier than
using the old fashioned method of buying (or borrowing) a book.


That's only true if the info is available on the net. So much info
-isn't- on the net.

I agree, but I haven't run into that situation on the things that I am
interested in.


You, on the other hand, need to get away from the left coast. It's
really affecting your perception.


"The West is the best".

The west is far too liberal. A weird blend of cynicism mixed with
naive idealism.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

On Wed, 18 May 2005 07:49:36 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
Speaking of 'media bias', are you keeping up-to-date on the status of
one of your staunchly anti-gay, conservative Republicans that happens
to be the mayor of my home town?

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/jimwest/


No, I'm more interested in the criminal activities surrounding the
associates of the democratic mayor of Philadelphia in a "Pay to play"
scandal. It is, after all, more regionally relevant for me.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10995886.htm


Gee Dave, after all your sermons about morality -- you don't care
about a pedophile that not only used his government office for
cyber-sex but promised internships to young boys in exchange for
'dates'? What happened to your morality, Dave? Did it suddenly get
lost because West is a conservative Republican?


snip
All I can say is that I sure wish I had the tools of the internet and
computers back when I had to do term papers. The task would have been
much less tedious and actually somewhat interesting, and fun.


Where did you go to college, Dave? And BTW, what was the name of that
tech school you claimed to have attended? Who does the majority party
represent if not the majority? Where does the Constitution require, or
even suggest, that religious influence should play any role in the
government? How does gay and lesbian marriage infringe on your rights?







----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Wed, 18 May 2005 06:41:56 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2005 07:49:36 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
Speaking of 'media bias', are you keeping up-to-date on the status of
one of your staunchly anti-gay, conservative Republicans that happens
to be the mayor of my home town?

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/jimwest/


No, I'm more interested in the criminal activities surrounding the
associates of the democratic mayor of Philadelphia in a "Pay to play"
scandal. It is, after all, more regionally relevant for me.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10995886.htm


Gee Dave, after all your sermons about morality -- you don't care
about a pedophile that not only used his government office for
cyber-sex but promised internships to young boys in exchange for
'dates'? What happened to your morality, Dave? Did it suddenly get
lost because West is a conservative Republican?

Geeze Frank, don't get your panties into a bunch here. This has
nothing to do with my "morality", only that you live 3000 miles away
from me and, as such, the events which occur there take a back seat in
the local news to events which are also occurring here. I was simply
not aware for what you were referring.


Your "Jim West" is a scumbag, plain and simple. Being a republican
does not excuse him from human flaws or the consequences of acting out
on them.


snip
All I can say is that I sure wish I had the tools of the internet and
computers back when I had to do term papers. The task would have been
much less tedious and actually somewhat interesting, and fun.


Where did you go to college, Dave? And BTW, what was the name of that
tech school you claimed to have attended?

Give me one good reason why I should tell you.


Who does the majority party represent if not the majority?

Is this a loaded question?

Where does the Constitution require, or
even suggest, that religious influence should play any role in the
government?

Where does the Constitution require or even suggest that religious
influences should NOT play any role in the government?


How does gay and lesbian marriage infringe on your rights?

It is not a matter of infringing on my "rights". It's matter of
tarnishing an institution that is based on religious practices. The
government has no right to do such. The only thing the government can
or should do is offer a civil union option, to provide gay couples the
same civil rights and responsibilities as straight couples when
dealing with secular issues.

You, a big advocate for separation of church and state, should
understand where the line is drawn here. If you advocate that church
doctrine should not be infused into the workings of the government,
then the converse is also true. Otherwise you are practicing
hypocrisy.

I have no problem with secular civil unions. I have a big problem with
gay marriages.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:01:51 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

On Wed, 18 May 2005 06:41:56 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2005 07:49:36 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
Speaking of 'media bias', are you keeping up-to-date on the status of
one of your staunchly anti-gay, conservative Republicans that happens
to be the mayor of my home town?

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/jimwest/


No, I'm more interested in the criminal activities surrounding the
associates of the democratic mayor of Philadelphia in a "Pay to play"
scandal. It is, after all, more regionally relevant for me.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10995886.htm


Gee Dave, after all your sermons about morality -- you don't care
about a pedophile that not only used his government office for
cyber-sex but promised internships to young boys in exchange for
'dates'? What happened to your morality, Dave? Did it suddenly get
lost because West is a conservative Republican?

Geeze Frank, don't get your panties into a bunch here. This has
nothing to do with my "morality", only that you live 3000 miles away
from me and, as such, the events which occur there take a back seat in
the local news to events which are also occurring here.


Gee, so a couple gays getting married in San Francisco should be about
as unimportant as the mayor of Spokane, huh?


I was simply
not aware for what you were referring.


Your "Jim West" is a scumbag, plain and simple. Being a republican
does not excuse him from human flaws or the consequences of acting out
on them.


That's it? That's all you have to say about the subject? No diatribe
about how it diminishes the credibility of your own mayor? No sermon
on how his sexual perversions are a moral abomination? Instead you
refer to his homosexuality and pedophilia as "human flaws" when you
have consistently referred to such behavior in much stronger language?

Hey, it's not like I'm suprised -- it's ok to call Kerry a criminal
when there has been no trial; but Bush, who was tried and convicted of
a DUI, is guilty of nothing more than a "civil infraction". And all
the while it was -you- that said that anyone who breaks the law is a
criminal. So instead of condemning people in your own camp with your
own standards, you simply use softer words. How nice.

Liberal pedophile: guilty of a moral sin.
Conservative pedophile: victim of a human flaw.

You're a trip, Dave.


snip
All I can say is that I sure wish I had the tools of the internet and
computers back when I had to do term papers. The task would have been
much less tedious and actually somewhat interesting, and fun.


Where did you go to college, Dave? And BTW, what was the name of that
tech school you claimed to have attended?

Give me one good reason why I should tell you.


Because if you don't then your claim has no credibility, and I will be
reiterating that fact for as long as you post in this group.


Who does the majority party represent if not the majority?

Is this a loaded question?


Not at all. Bush and the Republicans ignored the voices of the vast
majority of Americans when they tried to meddle in the Shiavo case. If
they were not acting on behalf of the majority of Americans then what
was their motive? IOW, who does the majority party represent if not
the majority?


Where does the Constitution require, or
even suggest, that religious influence should play any role in the
government?

Where does the Constitution require or even suggest that religious
influences should NOT play any role in the government?


You claimed that the Constitution included words that defined this
country to be a Christian state. Where does it say anything of the
sort?


How does gay and lesbian marriage infringe on your rights?

It is not a matter of infringing on my "rights".


That's absolutely correct, Dave.


It's matter of
tarnishing an institution that is based on religious practices.


Which has absolutely nothing to do with the government or the
Constitution.


The
government has no right to do such.


The government cannot prevent people from practicing their religion as
they see fit, even if their religion includes a definition of marriage
that's different than your's.


The only thing the government can
or should do is offer a civil union option, to provide gay couples the
same civil rights and responsibilities as straight couples when
dealing with secular issues.


You can call it a "civil union" if you want. They can call it a
"marriage" if -they- want. That's -their- right. It's not -your- right
to prevent them from exercising -their- rights.


You, a big advocate for separation of church and state, should
understand where the line is drawn here. If you advocate that church
doctrine should not be infused into the workings of the government,
then the converse is also true. Otherwise you are practicing
hypocrisy.


I agree, the government should not impose upon any religion. How does
gay marriage impose government upon religion?

I see your point, Dave. But what you refuse to accept is that marriage
is not exclusive to religion. It may have been formally defined under
religion, but I wasn't there so I don't know for sure. Regardless, the
concept of marriage is not only secular but universal. And as I have
pointed out several times before, the Christian definition of marriage
is, at best, poorly defined.


I have no problem with secular civil unions. I have a big problem with
gay marriages.


You don't want homosexuals to be able to walk down the same street
that you do. You are a bigot.






----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Thu, 19 May 2005 06:02:17 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:01:51 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

On Wed, 18 May 2005 06:41:56 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2005 07:49:36 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :

snip
Speaking of 'media bias', are you keeping up-to-date on the status of
one of your staunchly anti-gay, conservative Republicans that happens
to be the mayor of my home town?

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/jimwest/


No, I'm more interested in the criminal activities surrounding the
associates of the democratic mayor of Philadelphia in a "Pay to play"
scandal. It is, after all, more regionally relevant for me.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10995886.htm


Gee Dave, after all your sermons about morality -- you don't care
about a pedophile that not only used his government office for
cyber-sex but promised internships to young boys in exchange for
'dates'? What happened to your morality, Dave? Did it suddenly get
lost because West is a conservative Republican?

Geeze Frank, don't get your panties into a bunch here. This has
nothing to do with my "morality", only that you live 3000 miles away
from me and, as such, the events which occur there take a back seat in
the local news to events which are also occurring here.


Gee, so a couple gays getting married in San Francisco should be about
as unimportant as the mayor of Spokane, huh?


A totally different issue. One single gay couple in San Fran, is a
minor footnote. The broader reaching implications of such behavior, is
what concerns me and most Americans.

I was simply
not aware for what you were referring.


Your "Jim West" is a scumbag, plain and simple. Being a republican
does not excuse him from human flaws or the consequences of acting out
on them.


That's it? That's all you have to say about the subject?

What do you want me to say?


No diatribe
about how it diminishes the credibility of your own mayor?

Why should it? It's not the whole institution of mayor's which is at
the heart of the issue. It's simply one person's sick, perverted
behavior.


No sermon
on how his sexual perversions are a moral abomination?

I would think you'd already know that. If my assumption was wrong
then, I apologize.


Instead you
refer to his homosexuality and pedophilia as "human flaws" when you
have consistently referred to such behavior in much stronger language?

How much stronger than "scumbag" do you want me to go? I'd like to
keep this at a "PG" level.


Hey, it's not like I'm suprised -- it's ok to call Kerry a criminal
when there has been no trial; but Bush, who was tried and convicted of
a DUI, is guilty of nothing more than a "civil infraction".

I'm sorry if the truth bothers you. Bush's conviction was for a motor
vehicle violation at that time. Not a criminal offense. Despite the
fact that Kerry never saw a courtroom for his perjurious and arguably
treasonous behavior, his actions are still contemptible.


And all
the while it was -you- that said that anyone who breaks the law is a
criminal. So instead of condemning people in your own camp with your
own standards, you simply use softer words. How nice.

You really need to get over yourself Frank. You spend far too much
time analyzing my words, and attempting to imply meanings which are
not there.


Liberal pedophile: guilty of a moral sin.
Conservative pedophile: victim of a human flaw.

All pedophiles are guilty of moral sins, which happens to be a human
flaw.


You're a trip, Dave.

No, your interpretations are.


snip
All I can say is that I sure wish I had the tools of the internet and
computers back when I had to do term papers. The task would have been
much less tedious and actually somewhat interesting, and fun.


Where did you go to college, Dave? And BTW, what was the name of that
tech school you claimed to have attended?

Give me one good reason why I should tell you.


Because if you don't then your claim has no credibility, and I will be
reiterating that fact for as long as you post in this group.

Then neither do any of yours for, as Twisty is so fond of pointing
out, USENET is an anonymous service. Very little about anyone is
verifiable. Being a ham puts me at somewhat of a disadvantage, as my
name and address can be obtained from my call sign. But any personal
information beyond that is revealed by personal choice at your own
risk. As long as guys like Twisty can be a continual disruption and
can safely hide from the consequences behind his cloak of anonymity, I
feel no obligation to provide any more of my personal information,
just to satiate your credibility issues. Remembering what happened to
Dennis O, when his place of employment was found out, is further
incentive for me to remain quiet about those aspects of my personal
life.

If you can't handle that, Tough.


Who does the majority party represent if not the majority?

Is this a loaded question?


Not at all. Bush and the Republicans ignored the voices of the vast
majority of Americans when they tried to meddle in the Shiavo case. If
they were not acting on behalf of the majority of Americans then what
was their motive? IOW, who does the majority party represent if not
the majority?

Principles, Character, Morality. Most of which the majority posses and
agree with.


Where does the Constitution require, or
even suggest, that religious influence should play any role in the
government?

Where does the Constitution require or even suggest that religious
influences should NOT play any role in the government?


You claimed that the Constitution included words that defined this
country to be a Christian state. Where does it say anything of the
sort?

I never made any such claim. But I'm sure you've misinterpreted one of
my past statements and think I said it.

I did say that the constitution was written by religious, God
respecting people, most of whom were Christian.

How does gay and lesbian marriage infringe on your rights?

It is not a matter of infringing on my "rights".


That's absolutely correct, Dave.

Of course it is, I said it.


It's matter of
tarnishing an institution that is based on religious practices.


Which has absolutely nothing to do with the government or the
Constitution.


The
government has no right to do such.


The government cannot prevent people from practicing their religion as
they see fit, even if their religion includes a definition of marriage
that's different than your's.


The only thing the government can
or should do is offer a civil union option, to provide gay couples the
same civil rights and responsibilities as straight couples when
dealing with secular issues.


You can call it a "civil union" if you want. They can call it a
"marriage" if -they- want. That's -their- right. It's not -your- right
to prevent them from exercising -their- rights.

From a secular point of view, they have the right to live in sin, but
no true Christian church would recognize such a union. And any
institution that would, cheapens and tarnishes that institution.


You, a big advocate for separation of church and state, should
understand where the line is drawn here. If you advocate that church
doctrine should not be infused into the workings of the government,
then the converse is also true. Otherwise you are practicing
hypocrisy.


I agree, the government should not impose upon any religion. How does
gay marriage impose government upon religion?

By forcing universal recognition of gay marriages as legitimate, which
they are not in the eyes of God.


I see your point, Dave. But what you refuse to accept is that marriage
is not exclusive to religion.

But it started there.


It may have been formally defined under
religion, but I wasn't there so I don't know for sure. Regardless, the
concept of marriage is not only secular but universal.

By necessity, not by choice. And the secular definition of marriage
simply adopted the religious definition of marriage in order to define
the civil rights that married couples would gain. Creating a new
definition of marriage, that is not endorsed by the church, is not
acceptable.

Think of it as similar to a copyrighted trademark. The church has
"licensed" the term "marriage" to the government to use for civil
purposes, as long as they abide by the terms of the license. Unless
the church decides to condone a gay union (Not likely), then the
government has no right to apply the term "marriage" to a secular gay
union.

Like I said before, I have no problem with the government creating a
gay civil union, with the same civil rights and responsibilities given
to married couples, just don't call it marriage.

And as I have
pointed out several times before, the Christian definition of marriage
is, at best, poorly defined.

But it has been widely accepted in this country for hundreds of years.
Marriage is only recognized in the secular arena, due to the
additional legal rights and responsibilities that couples get. Before
the complexities of secular society necessitated such civil
recognition of marriage, the only thing a couple needed to do was have
the marriage blessed before God at a church service. That was all
that was necessary to legitimize a marriage.


I have no problem with secular civil unions. I have a big problem with
gay marriages.


You don't want homosexuals to be able to walk down the same street
that you do. You are a bigot.


Ah, you're back to making unfounded speculative assumptions and then
drawing an erroneous conclusion based on those unfounded speculations.
That's yet another example of your poor logic. You never could stick
to the facts Frank. But your liberal demonization tactic doesn't work
on me Frank. Labeling me will not change the very real legitimacy of
the issue.

Dave
"Sandbagger"

From: (Dave=A0Hall)
On Wed, 18 May 2005 06:41:56 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 07:49:36 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in :
snip
"Speaking of 'media bias', are you keeping up-to-date on the status of
one of your staunchly anti-gay, conservative Republicans that happens to
be the mayor of my home town?
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/jimwest/ "

No, I'm more interested in the criminal

activities surrounding the associates of the

democratic mayor of Philadelphia in a "Pay to

play" scandal. It is, after all, more regionally

relevant for me.


http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10995886.h

tm



Philly is the scumbag capital of the country. They have nothing to be
proud of in the last twenty five years. Jobs, crime, housing,
education,..all past the brink. Medical care is the only thing that is
even half decent in that area, and even that is a joke when all is taken
in to consideration.


"Gee Dave, after all your sermons about morality -- you don't care about
a pedophile that not only used his government office for cyber-sex but
promised internships to young boys in exchange for 'dates'? What
happened to your morality, Dave? Did it suddenly get lost because West
is a conservative Republican?"



Geeze Frank, don't get your panties into a

bunch here. This has nothing to do with my

"morality", only that you live 3000 miles away

from me and, as such, the events which occur

there take a back seat in the local news to

events which are also occurring here. I was

simply not aware for what you were referring.

Your "Jim West" is a scumbag, plain and

simple. Being a republican does not excuse

him from human flaws or the consequences of
acting out on them.


Except when those flaws belong to Bush, then those consequences go out
the window and people like you blame the demos for his incompetence.

snip

All I can say is that I sure wish I had the tools

of the internet and computers back when I had
to do term papers. The task would have been

much less tedious and actually somewhat

interesting, and fun.



Chances are you would have cheated.

"Where did you go to college, Dave? And
BTW, what was the name of that tech school
you claimed to have attended?

Give me one good reason why I should tell

you.


Because you lost all credibility for all your claims for many valid
reasons. In the past, your claims were suspect at best, with a chance of
being correct. You removed all doubt with your hypocrisy. Your claims
now are now on par with what is to be found on www.snopes.com....

David HAll Jr.

N3CVJ

"Sandbagger"

On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:34:45 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/10995886.h

tm



Philly is the scumbag capital of the country. They have nothing to be
proud of in the last twenty five years. Jobs, crime, housing,
education,..all past the brink. Medical care is the only thing that is
even half decent in that area, and even that is a joke when all is taken
in to consideration.

I agree with you. Then again, Other than the fact that NYC has more
money surging through it, it isn't any better. I'm not a fan of cities
anyway.




"Gee Dave, after all your sermons about morality -- you don't care about
a pedophile that not only used his government office for cyber-sex but
promised internships to young boys in exchange for 'dates'? What
happened to your morality, Dave? Did it suddenly get lost because West
is a conservative Republican?"



Geeze Frank, don't get your panties into a

bunch here. This has nothing to do with my

"morality", only that you live 3000 miles away

from me and, as such, the events which occur

there take a back seat in the local news to

events which are also occurring here. I was

simply not aware for what you were referring.

Your "Jim West" is a scumbag, plain and

simple. Being a republican does not excuse

him from human flaws or the consequences of
acting out on them.


Except when those flaws belong to Bush, then those consequences go out
the window and people like you blame the demos for his incompetence.

Because those "flaws" were largely invented by the left leaning media.
There has been none to date which have been proven. Rathergate, is a
glaring example of one such smear which got discovered before any real
damage could be done. Then there is the more recent Newsweek gaffe
about flushing the Koran down a toilet (How does one flush a book down
a toilet anyway?). Did you know that the gutless clowns at Newsweek
had the nerve to actually blame the repercussions of their erroneous
reporting on the Bush administration, for not denying it quickly
enough? They print a lie, and they blame Bush for not denying it, as
the reason why those people were killed in the protests. Unbelievable!
But there is no character on the left side of the aisle. And it
becomes more apparent with each passing day, and each further shrill
speech a democrat makes.



All I can say is that I sure wish I had the tools

of the internet and computers back when I had
to do term papers. The task would have been
much less tedious and actually somewhat
interesting, and fun.

Chances are you would have cheated.

I've never cheated on any assignment that I've ever done. I've never
had to.




"Where did you go to college, Dave? And
BTW, what was the name of that tech school
you claimed to have attended?

Give me one good reason why I should tell
you.


Because you lost all credibility for all your claims for many valid
reasons.

What you think is irrelevant, and contrary to your wild imagination,
you do not represent the majority. But I'll make a deal with you, I'll
tell you every place where I went to school, when you give me your
real name and address. Deal?


Dave
"Sandbagger"

Dave Hall, N3CVJ wrote:
Now, let's take a closer look at this, and

expose just why these answers that you gave

are highly unlikely. You once claimed that you

were in the military in the mid 80's, then

worked for a while. Then you went back to

school (presumably because you had trouble

finding a decent job). Now a BS program

requires a 4 year course study at a minimum.



Frank was in the military (can earn you college credits) and it doesn't
take 4 years minimum to get a BS degree. It is often done in 3 or less.
In fact, there are many who do it in less time. Many major universities
and schools have BS programs that take less than 4 years.