On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 19:57:47 -0400, Scott in Baltimore
wrote in
:

But my point was that PEP @ 100% mod = 4 x carrier, a fact which
befuddles voodoo CB techs like Bill the self-proclaimed CB Amp God.

Then explain Bill's meaning of this web page:
http://www.cbtricks.com/members/kd6tas/amsig.htm


You mean the part where he's promoting the benefits of splatter and
harmonics with intentional overmodulation? Or when he says that
"unsymmetrical modulation" is common in CB radios but fails to mention
that the reason is usually due to improper alignment or modification?
Or how he implicates that a century's worth of knowledge about the
science and art of radio doesn't apply to CB radio? Or in his post
where he states the amp is limited to 1200 watts peak which limits the
dead-key to 300 watts, yet arbitrarily declares the amp good for a
dead-key of 600 watts?

Voodoo.







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On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:59:51 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

You mean the part where he's promoting the benefits of splatter and
harmonics with intentional overmodulation? Or when he says that
"unsymmetrical modulation" is common in CB radios but fails to mention
that the reason is usually due to improper alignment or modification?
Or how he implicates that a century's worth of knowledge about the
science and art of radio doesn't apply to CB radio? Or in his post
where he states the amp is limited to 1200 watts peak which limits the
dead-key to 300 watts, yet arbitrarily declares the amp good for a
dead-key of 600 watts?


Hey Frank! Don't mince words now, tell us how ya really feel! 8-P

-Chuck

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:28:53 -0400, Chuck K8CPA
wrote in :

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:59:51 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

You mean the part where he's promoting the benefits of splatter and
harmonics with intentional overmodulation? Or when he says that
"unsymmetrical modulation" is common in CB radios but fails to mention
that the reason is usually due to improper alignment or modification?
Or how he implicates that a century's worth of knowledge about the
science and art of radio doesn't apply to CB radio? Or in his post
where he states the amp is limited to 1200 watts peak which limits the
dead-key to 300 watts, yet arbitrarily declares the amp good for a
dead-key of 600 watts?


Hey Frank! Don't mince words now, tell us how ya really feel! 8-P


Shut up, you holy-roller hypocrite.






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Hello Dr Death:

Oh yeah I am sure. It boggles the mind that someone would buy something
like this, way back when.

One of the engineers from General Radiotelephone (Single Sideband Sam)
had a very large Tube amp in the back seat of his 1964 Covair with a
Johnson 350, a 2 channel SSB Radio, and a 102 inch whip antenna in the
center of the cars roof. He got out really well. He was on channel 16
and 4 LSB.

I use to monitor channel 15 in the San Fernando Valley in So Cal, use to
hear a lot of Truckers roll by, and there where a few memorable ones
with really loud strong stations in their trucks. Some really impressive.

Was able to talk to a few of the truckers all the way down into Long
Beach at the harbor. So they really had a significant station.

Jay in the Mojave

Kreedentials:...
Rock n Roll fan
CB Radio Operator, also like ham, shortwave, and keep an ear on the scanner.
Owner 1966 Ford F250 4x4 Truck, Hi Po 460, twice exhaust, no smog stuff,
had worlds loudest PA System, great for oldie but goodie night at local
drive in restraunt.
Member Mojave Desert Radio Association, cost 9 bucks, but didn't get
change back from a 10 spot!?
Still studying morse code (beeps and dots)for ham radio lic.
5 Kollage credits, 3 for passing, and 2 for leaving early.



DrDeath wrote:

"Jay in the Mojave" wrote in message
...

Hello All

This caught my eye. I didn't know they made this type of amps in a mobile
verison!

Looking at the 12 switching transistors on the back of the amp, leaves one
in awe! That had to draw more current than Bolder Dam.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VARMINT-XL-1000-...QQcmdZViewItem

Jay in the Mojave



That box needs its own seat in the car.

Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:28:53 -0400, Chuck K8CPA
wrote in :


On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:59:51 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:


You mean the part where he's promoting the benefits of splatter and
harmonics with intentional overmodulation? Or when he says that
"unsymmetrical modulation" is common in CB radios but fails to mention
that the reason is usually due to improper alignment or modification?
Or how he implicates that a century's worth of knowledge about the
science and art of radio doesn't apply to CB radio? Or in his post
where he states the amp is limited to 1200 watts peak which limits the
dead-key to 300 watts, yet arbitrarily declares the amp good for a
dead-key of 600 watts?


Hey Frank! Don't mince words now, tell us how ya really feel! 8-P



Shut up, you holy-roller hypocrite.






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LOL...

"jim" wrote in message
...
Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:28:53 -0400, Chuck K8CPA
wrote in :


On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:59:51 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:


You mean the part where he's promoting the benefits of splatter and
harmonics with intentional overmodulation? Or when he says that
"unsymmetrical modulation" is common in CB radios but fails to mention
that the reason is usually due to improper alignment or modification?
Or how he implicates that a century's worth of knowledge about the
science and art of radio doesn't apply to CB radio? Or in his post
where he states the amp is limited to 1200 watts peak which limits the
dead-key to 300 watts, yet arbitrarily declares the amp good for a
dead-key of 600 watts?


Hey Frank! Don't mince words now, tell us how ya really feel! 8-P



Shut up, you holy-roller hypocrite.






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Newsgroups
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LOL...

X 2 LOL LOL!

Landshark


--
That's funny. You managed to actually make the thug alter his outside
real world actions because of his incompetence in this ng. The internet
magnifies peoples' idiocy, as he shows.

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:21:21 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:28:53 -0400, Chuck K8CPA
wrote in :

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:59:51 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

You mean the part where he's promoting the benefits of splatter and
harmonics with intentional overmodulation? Or when he says that
"unsymmetrical modulation" is common in CB radios but fails to mention
that the reason is usually due to improper alignment or modification?
Or how he implicates that a century's worth of knowledge about the
science and art of radio doesn't apply to CB radio? Or in his post
where he states the amp is limited to 1200 watts peak which limits the
dead-key to 300 watts, yet arbitrarily declares the amp good for a
dead-key of 600 watts?


Hey Frank! Don't mince words now, tell us how ya really feel! 8-P


Shut up, you holy-roller hypocrite.



bite me, twirp...





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On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 12:47:40 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

+On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 18:36:32 GMT, james wrote
+in :
+
+On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:51:36 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
+
++On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:08:10 GMT, the self-proclaimed "CB Amp God"
++Bill Eitner wrote in
.com:
++
++
++
++Jay in the Mojave wrote:
++ Hello All:
++
++ Yes this had to run in someone's mobile, I would think it took way over
++ 200 amps to run. This really has to be one for the hall of fame!
++
++ It would take nearly 20 amps just to
++ keep it on standby.
++
++
++Closer to 10 amps.
++
+******
+
+Closer to 15 amps. The filaments, with (6)6LR6s and (3) 6KV6As alone
+are over 10 amps. Then add in the switcing transisitors. If I remember
+correctly the original output tubes were 6LF6s. The amp is three tubes
+to drive 6.
+
+
+Closer to 10 amps -- it has a standy mode that reduces the current
+through the filaments and shuts off the inverter. Besides, I ran one
+across the bench a few years ago and measured the standby current.
+
+
++
++ .....A DC pig it
++ definitely is. However, as far as
++ output, by todays standards, it isn't
++ that big a deal. A daily-use 8-pill
++ is easily its equal.
++
++ I saved the photos on a disk. Where would you put this monster in a car
++ or truck?!??!!??!?! Hehehehhehehehe
++
++ On the floor, in the trunk, or in A
++ custom box in the bed. In those days
++ the radios didn't have the frequency
++ coverage that is common today. That
++ means that once it was tuned it could
++ be left alone.
++
++
++What a load of hogwash. This amp has a tuned pi-tank output that you
++can clearly see in the pics; i.e, you need to retune if you change
++freqs. Tube amps can be designed to be broadband just like solid-state
++amps, and solid-state amps can be built with tuned output tanks. But a
++broadband amp -- tube -or- transistor -- eliminates the tuned output
++tank, the result being harmonics that increase with non-linearity. The
++only difference between 'then' and 'now' is that ampheads these days
++don't give a rat's ass about harmonics bleeding all over the spectrum.
++
+
+Tuning was not as critical for that amp. When there was only 23
+channels, you set it at channel 12 and it pretty much was adequate for
+the whole 23 channels. You only had a span of 300 KHz. Granted it
+maynot have been optimum at the band edges, but was useable. For 40
+channel operation that maybe stretching it a bit.
+
+
+Quite a bit.
+
+
+I agree toaday most could care less about harmonics. The further the
+meter goes to the right the happier they are.
+
+
+Unfortunately, that's all too true.
+
+
++And as far as frequency coverage is concerned, the range of bipolars
++is generally narrower than power RF tubes, the latter being usable
++from 0 Hz all the way through to their maximum frequency. In fact,
++most are rated in their data sheets for use as audio amps. Even
++smaller RF tubes like the 6146 have been used in guitar amps. You
++can't do -that- with a 2SC2290.
++
+****
+
+Come on, crossover distortion at 12 volts is horrible compared to 450
+volts. For audio, Tubes of FETs are superior to bipolar transistors.
+
+
+Again, true story. Where did I say anything different? You need a
+feedback loop in order to reduce crossover distortion in a bipolar
+push-pull, but you can't put a feedback loop in an RF amp.
+
+
******

Well you can but it is difficult to keep the amp an amp and not an
oscillator. I was pointing out that Tubes and FETs are more usable for
audio applications than bipolar in my opinion.

++
++ And WHAT mobile antenna would hold a full KW, other than a 102 inch
++ stainless steel whip ?
++
++ A Firestick (heliwhip), the Francis
++ whips, or even a K-40 or an Avanti
++ Mobile Moonraker that was tuned right.
++ It has to be realized that when all was
++ well that unit was good for 600 dead-key
++ and 1200 peak.
++
++
++More like 300 dead-key (RMS/AM) and 1200 PEP (SSB). And to think that
++after all these years you -still- haven't learned the difference. Go
++crawl back under your rock, Bill.
++
++
+******
+
+Almost all of the sweep tubes ran in cathode driven more linearly
+wqith much less carrier output than most CBers like. Judging by using
+4 6LQ6s in cathode driven configuration with some bias on the contrrol
+grids,I saw between 80 and 120 watts as the maximum carrier pwoer for
+good linearity. For this amp more like 120 to 180 watts carrier. Sweep
+tubes are not the best fore AM amplification. They perform adequately
+for SSB. There you can realize more power out.
+
+
+Sweep tubes aren't very linear to begin with..... at least not when
+driven as hard as they are in these RF amps. The pi-tank is almost
+essential but does nothing to improve linearity. I've never heard one
+sweep-tube amp that didn't noticably distort the audio.
+

Correct on the PI-Network. It just filters and that is only minimal,
about 6 dB per octave IIRC. Besides I never stated that the output pi
network improves linearity, That is accomplished through drive and
bias for a set of given plate and screen voltages.

In low drive situation they are adequate. Back 30 yrs ago the tubes
were cheap. I knew soemone that got me tubes from a whosale
distributer for $3 a piece. I could get 811A's for $11 a peice.

For about 100 PEP output from a pair of 6LQ6s as compared to a pair of
6146Bs, I will take the 6146B every day.


+But my point was that PEP @ 100% mod = 4 x carrier, a fact which
+befuddles voodoo CB techs like Bill the self-proclaimed CB Amp God.
+

COrrect in that. A PEP level is 4 times that of the AM Carrier. That
is the power that should be used to determine maximum useful output in
my opinion.

+
+The again output power and life expectancy of sweep tubes are
+inversely proportional. The more out, the shorter the life span.
+
+
+That's pretty much true with all power devices.
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:37:10 GMT, james wrote
in :

snip
+Again, true story. Where did I say anything different? You need a
+feedback loop in order to reduce crossover distortion in a bipolar
+push-pull, but you can't put a feedback loop in an RF amp.
+
+
******

Well you can but it is difficult to keep the amp an amp and not an
oscillator. I was pointing out that Tubes and FETs are more usable for
audio applications than bipolar in my opinion.


I guess it depends on the specific application. There have been many
popular PA's built with bipolar transistors -- Peavey, Carver, Crown,
etc. -- and they work just fine. Power MOSFETs are fine for mobile
audio. But for audio preamps and compressors, tubes are the best
choice, IMO.


snip
For about 100 PEP output from a pair of 6LQ6s as compared to a pair of
6146Bs, I will take the 6146B every day.


Absolutely. Besides, they're cheaper. I've got a dynamotor on the
shelf collecting dust and just waiting for such an application.


+But my point was that PEP @ 100% mod = 4 x carrier, a fact which
+befuddles voodoo CB techs like Bill the self-proclaimed CB Amp God.
+

COrrect in that. A PEP level is 4 times that of the AM Carrier. That
is the power that should be used to determine maximum useful output in
my opinion.


What I see a lot is new and naive CBers getting took on linears. The
amp might be rated for, say, 100 watts, but they aren't told that's
PEP, and for AM they need to reduce the dead-key input until the
output drops to 25 watts. Nor are they told that they aren't very
linear and need a LP filter to keep from being heard in the neighbor's
television.

Yeah, I've said all this about a hundred times before, but it needs to
be said again every once in a while.







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"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:37:10 GMT, james wrote
in :

snip
+Again, true story. Where did I say anything different? You need a
+feedback loop in order to reduce crossover distortion in a bipolar
+push-pull, but you can't put a feedback loop in an RF amp.
+
+
******

Well you can but it is difficult to keep the amp an amp and not an
oscillator. I was pointing out that Tubes and FETs are more usable for
audio applications than bipolar in my opinion.


I guess it depends on the specific application. There have been many
popular PA's built with bipolar transistors -- Peavey, Carver, Crown,
etc. -- and they work just fine. Power MOSFETs are fine for mobile
audio. But for audio preamps and compressors, tubes are the best
choice, IMO.


snip
For about 100 PEP output from a pair of 6LQ6s as compared to a pair of
6146Bs, I will take the 6146B every day.


Absolutely. Besides, they're cheaper. I've got a dynamotor on the
shelf collecting dust and just waiting for such an application.


+But my point was that PEP @ 100% mod = 4 x carrier, a fact which
+befuddles voodoo CB techs like Bill the self-proclaimed CB Amp God.
+

COrrect in that. A PEP level is 4 times that of the AM Carrier. That
is the power that should be used to determine maximum useful output in
my opinion.


What I see a lot is new and naive CBers getting took on linears. The
amp might be rated for, say, 100 watts, but they aren't told that's
PEP, and for AM they need to reduce the dead-key input until the
output drops to 25 watts. Nor are they told that they aren't very
linear and need a LP filter to keep from being heard in the neighbor's
television.

Yeah, I've said all this about a hundred times before, but it needs to
be said again every once in a while.


What do you think about Macintosh Audio equipment?

Landshark


--
The internet is fun but it's no substitute for books, people, nature,
or direct experiences. But you think that you can get everything you
need from your computer, you are a fool.

Frank Gililland