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Old November 13th 03, 01:24 PM
charlesb
 
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Default Important Research at TAPR

According to the latest TAPR "Packet Status Register", thier quarterly
newsletter, the folks at TAPR have discovered that they are adrift, with no
purpose and direction to guide their activities. As is often the case, the
"leadership" at TAPR were the last ones to acknowlege a situation that hams
have been noticing and remarking upon for over a decade.

It appears the TAPR BoD put their heads together, discussed the question
thoroughly, and discovered that they still had no idea as to what TAPR is
supposed to be doing. At last they threw up thier hands and hired somebody
to investigate - To try to determine what TAPR might be good for.

"Uh, TAPR does technical stuff." was the conclusion the investigator
returned.

It is revealing that during the entire article describing the confusion and
debate as to what TAPR might be good for and the "answer" thier investigator
eventually turned up, the words "packet radio" were never even mentioned.

That's right; At no time did anybody in the TAPR organization or the
investigator they hired mention the words "packet radio" while working to
sovle the mystery as to what TAPR might be good for. Those words also are
lacking in the investigator's conclusion, "Uh, TAPR does technical stuff."

- So why do some people think of TAPR as a packet radio organization?
TAPR doesn't.

Charles Brabham, N5PVL
Director: USPacket.Net
http://www.uspacket.net





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Old November 13th 03, 02:01 PM
Gene Storey
 
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Default

"Some people" will always live in the past.

Could be they (TAPR) don't want to limit themselves to a technology that is
now fully obsolete, and 90% of Hams have abandoned.

Personally, I don't care about packet (ax.25), and "digital" to me means vocoders,
PSK, and OFDM. ax.25 would be the "misc" of this "digital" forum.

I also don't need your sniveling about your most hated organization. Get over it.

Even wireless devices have abandoned Spread Spectrum, and gone for OFDM
for speed (802.11g).

AOR has an OFDM modem for HF that does 2400 baud with 1200 baud of FEC.
Why would anyone use packet anymore?

Gene

"charlesb" wrote

- So why do some people think of TAPR as a packet radio organization?
TAPR doesn't.



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Old November 13th 03, 02:01 PM
Gene Storey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Some people" will always live in the past.

Could be they (TAPR) don't want to limit themselves to a technology that is
now fully obsolete, and 90% of Hams have abandoned.

Personally, I don't care about packet (ax.25), and "digital" to me means vocoders,
PSK, and OFDM. ax.25 would be the "misc" of this "digital" forum.

I also don't need your sniveling about your most hated organization. Get over it.

Even wireless devices have abandoned Spread Spectrum, and gone for OFDM
for speed (802.11g).

AOR has an OFDM modem for HF that does 2400 baud with 1200 baud of FEC.
Why would anyone use packet anymore?

Gene

"charlesb" wrote

- So why do some people think of TAPR as a packet radio organization?
TAPR doesn't.



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Old November 13th 03, 05:30 PM
user
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:01:25 -0600, Gene Storey wrote:
"Some people" will always live in the past.

Could be they (TAPR) don't want to limit themselves to a technology that is
now fully obsolete, and 90% of Hams have abandoned.

Personally, I don't care about packet (ax.25), and "digital" to me means vocoders,
PSK, and OFDM. ax.25 would be the "misc" of this "digital" forum.

I also don't need your sniveling about your most hated organization. Get over it.

Even wireless devices have abandoned Spread Spectrum, and gone for OFDM
for speed (802.11g).

AOR has an OFDM modem for HF that does 2400 baud with 1200 baud of FEC.
Why would anyone use packet anymore?



TAPR has been doing a good job in the last couple years with kits.
The DSP-10 is a MAJOR undertaking, and they did great with it. The
DSPx and KDSP10 are also very nice - I've been playing around with them
the last few days. I've had a T238 for quite a while, and it's perfect.

So, I'm MORE than happy with them as a kit vendor. When it comes
to general packet radio, then, no, I don't look to them as a leader.
  #5   Report Post  
Old November 13th 03, 05:30 PM
user
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:01:25 -0600, Gene Storey wrote:
"Some people" will always live in the past.

Could be they (TAPR) don't want to limit themselves to a technology that is
now fully obsolete, and 90% of Hams have abandoned.

Personally, I don't care about packet (ax.25), and "digital" to me means vocoders,
PSK, and OFDM. ax.25 would be the "misc" of this "digital" forum.

I also don't need your sniveling about your most hated organization. Get over it.

Even wireless devices have abandoned Spread Spectrum, and gone for OFDM
for speed (802.11g).

AOR has an OFDM modem for HF that does 2400 baud with 1200 baud of FEC.
Why would anyone use packet anymore?



TAPR has been doing a good job in the last couple years with kits.
The DSP-10 is a MAJOR undertaking, and they did great with it. The
DSPx and KDSP10 are also very nice - I've been playing around with them
the last few days. I've had a T238 for quite a while, and it's perfect.

So, I'm MORE than happy with them as a kit vendor. When it comes
to general packet radio, then, no, I don't look to them as a leader.


  #6   Report Post  
Old November 13th 03, 10:50 PM
charlesb
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"user" wrote in message
...

TAPR has been doing a good job in the last couple years with kits.
The DSP-10 is a MAJOR undertaking, and they did great with it. The
DSPx and KDSP10 are also very nice - I've been playing around with them
the last few days. I've had a T238 for quite a while, and it's perfect.

So, I'm MORE than happy with them as a kit vendor. When it comes
to general packet radio, then, no, I don't look to them as a leader.


Yes, TAPR has been good about the kits and technical articles for some time,
but they are not really a packet radio organization as their name and
web-site implies.

The popular conception that TAPR is a packet radio organization is
incorrect. TAPR has no interest in packet radio and does not support it.
Many of the movers 'n shakers involved in TAPR despise packet radio in fact,
and several are downright rude to hams who express an interest in it. The
fact that TAPR marketed the TNC2 kit long ago has nothing to do with what
they are now.

I think we can safely allow Gene Story to be the TAPR poster-child with his
response here, displaying the sort of attitude about packet radio that you
can expect to find within TAPR.

USPacket.Net is a genuine packet radio organization, dedicated to that
aspect of the hobby. We do not feel that it is necessary to run down other
aspects of amateur radio, in order to promote packet. Naturally, we at USPN
would not want hams to mistakenly go to TAPR for packet information, only to
be discouraged or derided by TAPR folk who share many opinions with our
poster-boy Gene, here.

It would be just as inappropriate for hams to go to USPN looking for kits or
highly technical articles, as we do not offer any. What we do offer is
support and usable, useful information for hams who are interested in
amateur packet radio and most especially packet radio networking in the USA.

Gene Story accused me of "hating" TAPR in his nastygram-post, but my
feelings about TAPR do not run that strongly. As a technical organization
that puts out kits, TAPR does a great job. What I do "hate" though, is to
see hams being confused into thinking that TAPR is a packet radio
organization when they are not.

Personally, I applaud TAPR's reassessment of itself. It is accurate, and now
only a name change is needed in order to reduce any remaining confusion as
to what TAPR is, and what it does for the hobby.

Charles Brabham, N5PVL
Director: USPacket.Net
http://www.uspacket.net



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Old November 13th 03, 10:50 PM
charlesb
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"user" wrote in message
...

TAPR has been doing a good job in the last couple years with kits.
The DSP-10 is a MAJOR undertaking, and they did great with it. The
DSPx and KDSP10 are also very nice - I've been playing around with them
the last few days. I've had a T238 for quite a while, and it's perfect.

So, I'm MORE than happy with them as a kit vendor. When it comes
to general packet radio, then, no, I don't look to them as a leader.


Yes, TAPR has been good about the kits and technical articles for some time,
but they are not really a packet radio organization as their name and
web-site implies.

The popular conception that TAPR is a packet radio organization is
incorrect. TAPR has no interest in packet radio and does not support it.
Many of the movers 'n shakers involved in TAPR despise packet radio in fact,
and several are downright rude to hams who express an interest in it. The
fact that TAPR marketed the TNC2 kit long ago has nothing to do with what
they are now.

I think we can safely allow Gene Story to be the TAPR poster-child with his
response here, displaying the sort of attitude about packet radio that you
can expect to find within TAPR.

USPacket.Net is a genuine packet radio organization, dedicated to that
aspect of the hobby. We do not feel that it is necessary to run down other
aspects of amateur radio, in order to promote packet. Naturally, we at USPN
would not want hams to mistakenly go to TAPR for packet information, only to
be discouraged or derided by TAPR folk who share many opinions with our
poster-boy Gene, here.

It would be just as inappropriate for hams to go to USPN looking for kits or
highly technical articles, as we do not offer any. What we do offer is
support and usable, useful information for hams who are interested in
amateur packet radio and most especially packet radio networking in the USA.

Gene Story accused me of "hating" TAPR in his nastygram-post, but my
feelings about TAPR do not run that strongly. As a technical organization
that puts out kits, TAPR does a great job. What I do "hate" though, is to
see hams being confused into thinking that TAPR is a packet radio
organization when they are not.

Personally, I applaud TAPR's reassessment of itself. It is accurate, and now
only a name change is needed in order to reduce any remaining confusion as
to what TAPR is, and what it does for the hobby.

Charles Brabham, N5PVL
Director: USPacket.Net
http://www.uspacket.net



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Old November 13th 03, 11:16 PM
Dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You would never know it by looking through their website. I see
packet radio all over the place. I have always considered TAPR to be
the "father" of today's TNC's.

Dick - W6CCD

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:50:43 GMT, "charlesb"
wrote:

Gene Story accused me of "hating" TAPR in his nastygram-post, but my
feelings about TAPR do not run that strongly. As a technical organization
that puts out kits, TAPR does a great job. What I do "hate" though, is to
see hams being confused into thinking that TAPR is a packet radio
organization when they are not.


  #9   Report Post  
Old November 13th 03, 11:16 PM
Dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You would never know it by looking through their website. I see
packet radio all over the place. I have always considered TAPR to be
the "father" of today's TNC's.

Dick - W6CCD

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:50:43 GMT, "charlesb"
wrote:

Gene Story accused me of "hating" TAPR in his nastygram-post, but my
feelings about TAPR do not run that strongly. As a technical organization
that puts out kits, TAPR does a great job. What I do "hate" though, is to
see hams being confused into thinking that TAPR is a packet radio
organization when they are not.


  #10   Report Post  
Old November 14th 03, 01:44 AM
charlesb
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dick" wrote in message
...
You would never know it by looking through their website. I see
packet radio all over the place. I have always considered TAPR to be
the "father" of today's TNC's.


TAPR kitted the TNC2, twenty years ago. Things have changed since then, and
it has turned around to where hardly anybody at TAPR wants anything to do
with amateur packet radio, and most especially not with packet radio
networking. Packet figured large in TAPR's beginnings, but things change and
it is no longer the central focus of interest for that organization that it
once was.

The "packet radio" stuff in TAPR's name and on their web-site reflect an
earlier era in TAPR's history that is long past. It's a millstone around
their necks, contributing to their present internal confusion and lack of
focus. A lot of the unseemly and un-ham-like nastiness toward other hams
(packet enthusiasts) from TAPR folks springs from this dichotomy. This is
not doing TAPR any good, and of course it is bad for the hobby as well.

If TAPR dropped the "packet" stuff altogether and concentrated on what they
do best, both TAPR and the packet radio enthusiasts in the U.S. would be a
lot better off.

Charles Brabham, N5PVL
Director: USPacket.Net
http://www.uspacket.net







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