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Old August 19th 17, 01:05 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.dx
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In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 19/08/2017 10:34, Jimbo wrote:
sexes).

when I was newly licensed and poor I used 75 ohm TV coax and
belling lee
connectors on HF and got away with it .......


And it was standard on 145MHz. (QQV03-10 anyone?)


Actually, the original B&L connector is a pretty good 75 ohm match up to
1GHz and more. If I remember correctly, many 50 ohm BNCs are not so hot
500MHz. With 75 ohms, the problem is maintaining the structural return

loss constant while having enough PTFE insulation to hold the pin in
place. Some are only really good to around 200Mhz. Of course, for most
purposes, both are usable to much higher frequencies.

And mixable!




--
Ian

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Old August 19th 17, 02:18 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.dx
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On 19/08/2017 13:05, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 19/08/2017 10:34, Jimbo wrote:
sexes).
** when I was newly licensed and poor I used 75 ohm TV coax and
belling lee
connectors on HF and got away with it .......


And it was standard on 145MHz. (QQV03-10 anyone?)


Actually, the original B&L connector is a pretty good 75 ohm match up to
1GHz and more. If I remember correctly, many 50 ohm BNCs are not so hot
500MHz. With 75 ohms, the problem is maintaining the structural return

loss constant while having enough PTFE insulation to hold the pin in
place. Some are only really good to around 200Mhz. Of course, for most
purposes, both are usable to much higher frequencies.


The N connector was designed by Neill, the C by Concelman, and they got
together to create the BNC and TNC.

But the _REAL_ reason that the N connector is so called is because there
are N different ways to assemble it, and all of them wrong! :-)


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Old August 19th 17, 03:13 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.dx
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when I was newly licensed and poor I used 75 ohm TV coax and belling lee
connectors on HF and got away with it .......


For 43 years, my day job was cable TV - so I've rarely used anything other
than 75 ohm coax!

watch out brian will start slagging you off about digging holes now....tee
hee


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Old August 19th 17, 03:22 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.dx
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Posts: 393
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On 19/08/17 13:05, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 19/08/2017 10:34, Jimbo wrote:
sexes).
when I was newly licensed and poor I used 75 ohm TV coax and
belling lee
connectors on HF and got away with it .......


And it was standard on 145MHz. (QQV03-10 anyone?)


Actually, the original B&L connector is a pretty good 75 ohm match up to
1GHz and more. If I remember correctly, many 50 ohm BNCs are not so hot
500MHz. With 75 ohms, the problem is maintaining the structural return

loss constant while having enough PTFE insulation to hold the pin in
place. Some are only really good to around 200Mhz. Of course, for most
purposes, both are usable to much higher frequencies.

And mixable!


Well, the B&L connectors are used for TV which covers well into the 100s
of MHz. There is also the F connector, another 'cheap and cheerful'
beast, used beyond 1GHz. I've not done any measurements but it obviously
performs were enough for the task demanded of it.

Both the B&L and F connector suffer (as do all connectors) problems if
not fitted correctly but they are more prone to being 'bodged'. The B&L
is, for example. prone to issues with poor braid bonding while the F
connector, which uses the centre conductor as the pin, tend to be prone
to the 'pin' not aligning etc. I believe the F connector is used in the
US where we would, generally, expect to see a B&L connector. I believe
the B&L is virtually unknown in the US. I was contacted by a US amateur
some time back who had acquired a bit of UK kit (KW?) which had B&L
sockets. He'd not seen them before. I sent him some plugs etc.

Of course, there is nothing 'magic' about 50 ohm coax or the connectors
we 'normally' use on our radios. If we were to stick to using 75 ohm
coax and B&L connectors the world wouldn't end. Likewise, if you mixed
50 ohm and 75 ohm, while you may be able to measure a slight difference,
chances are, in real terms, it wouldn't make much difference to the
overall set up performance- at least unless you were doing something
'exotic'. You'd be more likely to notice the impact of a poorly fitted
'correct' connector in an all 50 ohm system.

I tend to favour N types but I've not change all the connectors on my
radios. The 'first' patch lead as whatever the radio needs on one end
and required N type to connect to rest on the station on the other. The
same for my mobile set ups.

I also have a good collect of, quality, interseries, adaptors etc and a
set of the correct connectors for my Bird power meters and dummy load
etc. Through in a few home brew special adaptor leads for things I don't
have adaptors for and I can interconnect virtually anything.





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Old August 19th 17, 03:35 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.dx
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Posts: 10
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"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 19/08/2017 10:34, Jimbo wrote:
sexes).
when I was newly licensed and poor I used 75 ohm TV coax and belling
lee
connectors on HF and got away with it .......


And it was standard on 145MHz. (QQV03-10 anyone?)


Actually, the original B&L connector is a pretty good 75 ohm match up to
1GHz and more. If I remember correctly, many 50 ohm BNCs are not so hot
500MHz. With 75 ohms, the problem is maintaining the structural return

loss constant while having enough PTFE insulation to hold the pin in
place. Some are only really good to around 200Mhz. Of course, for most
purposes, both are usable to much higher frequencies.

And mixable!



I got a load of weird connectors and adaptors from a guy that worked at the
sub base at New London in 1979 ...still using them ......




  #16   Report Post  
Old August 19th 17, 04:23 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.dx
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: May 2017
Posts: 32
Default [S&DWS] Foundation Course Material in PDF Format

In message , Brian Reay writes
On 19/08/17 13:05, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 19/08/2017 10:34, Jimbo wrote:
sexes).
when I was newly licensed and poor I used 75 ohm TV coax and
belling lee
connectors on HF and got away with it .......


And it was standard on 145MHz. (QQV03-10 anyone?)

Actually, the original B&L connector is a pretty good 75 ohm match
up to 1GHz and more. If I remember correctly, many 50 ohm BNCs are
not so hot
500MHz. With 75 ohms, the problem is maintaining the structural
return

loss constant while having enough PTFE insulation to hold the pin in
place. Some are only really good to around 200Mhz. Of course, for most
purposes, both are usable to much higher frequencies.
And mixable!


Well, the B&L connectors are used for TV which covers well into the
100s of MHz. There is also the F connector, another 'cheap and
cheerful' beast, used beyond 1GHz. I've not done any measurements but
it obviously performs were enough for the task demanded of it.

Both the B&L and F connector suffer (as do all connectors) problems if
not fitted correctly but they are more prone to being 'bodged'.


As already mentioned about the N-connector, the B&L assembly is almost
specifically designed to be botched. [Note: 'Botched' is the word, not
'bodged'!]

The B&L is, for example. prone to issues with poor braid bonding while
the F connector, which uses the centre conductor as the pin, tend to be
prone to the 'pin' not aligning etc. I believe the F connector is used
in the US where we would, generally, expect to see a B&L connector. I
believe the B&L is virtually unknown in the US. I was contacted by a US
amateur some time back who had acquired a bit of UK kit (KW?) which had
B&L sockets. He'd not seen them before. I sent him some plugs etc.


These days, because of the American use, the F-connector is the standard
RF connector on all customer cable TV equipment (and also used a lot on
headend and associated equipment).

One technical virtue of the F male connector is that the 'pin' is simply
the cable inner. That should not prevent it aligning with the female
receptacle, unless whoever cut the cable bent it while doing so. It
helps mating if the inner is cut to the correct length, ie protruding
1/16th inch.

While the structural return loss of the F male connector is essentially
perfect, it's the capacitance of the female that limits the top
frequency. Like many connectors, it can be used at frequencies well
above where it should be!

These days, the cable TV industry uses various types of 'snap and seal'
male connectors (the old crimp type are definitely verboten). However,
for home use, for convenience I normally use the domestic screw-on type.
Like the B&L, the secret is knowing what to do with the braid.

Of course, there is nothing 'magic' about 50 ohm coax or the connectors
we 'normally' use on our radios. If we were to stick to using 75 ohm
coax and B&L connectors the world wouldn't end. Likewise, if you mixed
50 ohm and 75 ohm, while you may be able to measure a slight
difference, chances are, in real terms, it wouldn't make much
difference to the overall set up performance- at least unless you were
doing something 'exotic'. You'd be more likely to notice the impact of
a poorly fitted 'correct' connector in an all 50 ohm system.


The company once had a clear-out, and (among a lot of stuff) was going
to dump several 1000' reels of RG11. Needless to say, I and another
licensed co-worker tried to help them out with some of the cable. We
offered it to three or four of the local clubs, but it was refused on
the grounds that it was 75 ohms.

I tend to favour N types but I've not change all the connectors on my
radios. The 'first' patch lead as whatever the radio needs on one end
and required N type to connect to rest on the station on the other. The
same for my mobile set ups.

I also have a good collect of, quality, interseries, adaptors etc and a
set of the correct connectors for my Bird power meters and dummy load
etc. Through in a few home brew special adaptor leads for things I
don't have adaptors for and I can interconnect virtually anything.






--
Ian
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Old August 19th 17, 04:23 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.dx
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2011
Posts: 79
Default [S&DWS] Foundation Course Material in PDF Format

On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 15:35:41 +0100, "Jimbo"
wrote:


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 19/08/2017 10:34, Jimbo wrote:
sexes).
when I was newly licensed and poor I used 75 ohm TV coax and belling
lee
connectors on HF and got away with it .......


And it was standard on 145MHz. (QQV03-10 anyone?)


Actually, the original B&L connector is a pretty good 75 ohm match up to
1GHz and more. If I remember correctly, many 50 ohm BNCs are not so hot
500MHz. With 75 ohms, the problem is maintaining the structural return

loss constant while having enough PTFE insulation to hold the pin in
place. Some are only really good to around 200Mhz. Of course, for most
purposes, both are usable to much higher frequencies.

And mixable!



I got a load of weird connectors and adaptors from a guy that worked at the
sub base at New London in 1979 ...still using them ......

Type 43 connector?
  #18   Report Post  
Old August 19th 17, 04:25 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.dx
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2011
Posts: 79
Default [S&DWS] Foundation Course Material in PDF Format

On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 15:22:26 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

On 19/08/17 13:05, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 19/08/2017 10:34, Jimbo wrote:
sexes).
when I was newly licensed and poor I used 75 ohm TV coax and
belling lee
connectors on HF and got away with it .......


And it was standard on 145MHz. (QQV03-10 anyone?)


Actually, the original B&L connector is a pretty good 75 ohm match up to
1GHz and more. If I remember correctly, many 50 ohm BNCs are not so hot
500MHz. With 75 ohms, the problem is maintaining the structural return

loss constant while having enough PTFE insulation to hold the pin in
place. Some are only really good to around 200Mhz. Of course, for most
purposes, both are usable to much higher frequencies.

And mixable!


Well, the B&L connectors are used for TV which covers well into the 100s
of MHz. There is also the F connector, another 'cheap and cheerful'
beast, used beyond 1GHz. I've not done any measurements but it obviously
performs were enough for the task demanded of it.

Both the B&L and F connector suffer (as do all connectors) problems if
not fitted correctly but they are more prone to being 'bodged'. The B&L
is, for example. prone to issues with poor braid bonding while the F
connector, which uses the centre conductor as the pin, tend to be prone
to the 'pin' not aligning etc. I believe the F connector is used in the
US where we would, generally, expect to see a B&L connector. I believe
the B&L is virtually unknown in the US. I was contacted by a US amateur
some time back who had acquired a bit of UK kit (KW?) which had B&L
sockets. He'd not seen them before. I sent him some plugs etc.

Of course, there is nothing 'magic' about 50 ohm coax or the connectors
we 'normally' use on our radios. If we were to stick to using 75 ohm
coax and B&L connectors the world wouldn't end. Likewise, if you mixed
50 ohm and 75 ohm, while you may be able to measure a slight difference,
chances are, in real terms, it wouldn't make much difference to the
overall set up performance- at least unless you were doing something
'exotic'. You'd be more likely to notice the impact of a poorly fitted
'correct' connector in an all 50 ohm system.

I tend to favour N types but I've not change all the connectors on my
radios. The 'first' patch lead as whatever the radio needs on one end
and required N type to connect to rest on the station on the other. The
same for my mobile set ups.

I also have a good collect of, quality, interseries, adaptors etc and a
set of the correct connectors for my Bird power meters and dummy load
etc. Through in a few home brew special adaptor leads for things I don't
have adaptors for and I can interconnect virtually anything.




Oh! has he finished? I dozed off for a moment there.
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Old August 19th 17, 04:52 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.dx
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2017
Posts: 10
Default [S&DWS] Foundation Course Material in PDF Format



The company once had a clear-out, and (among a lot of stuff) was going to
dump several 1000' reels of RG11. Needless to say, I and another licensed
co-worker tried to help them out with some of the cable. We offered it to
three or four of the local clubs, but it was refused on the grounds that
it was 75 ohms.

I have an swr bridge that is switched 52/75 ohms .........


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Old August 19th 17, 04:53 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.dx
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2017
Posts: 10
Default [S&DWS] Foundation Course Material in PDF Format


"Rambo" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 15:35:41 +0100, "Jimbo"
wrote:


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 19/08/2017 10:34, Jimbo wrote:
sexes).
when I was newly licensed and poor I used 75 ohm TV coax and
belling
lee
connectors on HF and got away with it .......


And it was standard on 145MHz. (QQV03-10 anyone?)

Actually, the original B&L connector is a pretty good 75 ohm match up to
1GHz and more. If I remember correctly, many 50 ohm BNCs are not so hot
500MHz. With 75 ohms, the problem is maintaining the structural return
loss constant while having enough PTFE insulation to hold the pin in
place. Some are only really good to around 200Mhz. Of course, for most
purposes, both are usable to much higher frequencies.

And mixable!



I got a load of weird connectors and adaptors from a guy that worked at
the
sub base at New London in 1979 ...still using them ......

Type 43 connector?


no idea ... oh was that a submarine joke? ....




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