"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
Caveat Lector wrote:
There is this to understand

All of the below is old hat and has been going on for a long time -- 30
years that I know of.
No worse now as compared to then.

I would disagree with that assessment.

There are a lot of things in ham radio that aren't worse than they were 30
years ago. But this isn't one of them.

I got my license in 1973 and I clearly remember a day when if you would
listen, you could almost always find the guy the DX was working. Yeah,
there were plenty of people who didn't know that - who would just pick a
transmit frequency at random & just call there - but they didn't call
continuously *every time* the DX stopped transmitting.

And WHILE the DX is transmitting ...

Indeed, while I hate to join the "I hate packet" bandwagon there really
does seem to be a correlation between continuous calling and the explosive
growth of spotting nets.

Used to use things like the telephone and of course 10M AM.
The local group tended to monitor 28.7.

--

... Hank

http://home.earthlink.net/~horedson
http://home.earthlink.net/~w0rli

"Hank Oredson" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
Caveat Lector wrote:
There is this to understand

All of the below is old hat and has been going on for a long time -- 30
years that I know of.
No worse now as compared to then.

I would disagree with that assessment.

There are a lot of things in ham radio that aren't worse than they were
30 years ago. But this isn't one of them.

I got my license in 1973 and I clearly remember a day when if you would
listen, you could almost always find the guy the DX was working. Yeah,
there were plenty of people who didn't know that - who would just pick a
transmit frequency at random & just call there - but they didn't call
continuously *every time* the DX stopped transmitting.

And WHILE the DX is transmitting ...

Indeed, while I hate to join the "I hate packet" bandwagon there really
does seem to be a correlation between continuous calling and the
explosive growth of spotting nets.

Used to use things like the telephone and of course 10M AM.
The local group tended to monitor 28.7.

--

... Hank

http://home.earthlink.net/~horedson
http://home.earthlink.net/~w0rli


And in the past, many DX clubs set up DX spotting repeaters on 2M -- some
with 200 members
Also 2M simplex
And prior to that folks gave a one ringer landline call to their DX buddies
as u sed.
An before the clusters, avid DXers subscribed to DX newsletters to "spot"
the DX
Ala The West Coast DX Bulletin by Hugh Cassidy WA6AUD
Or now a days The Daily DX.

Any difference between these and today's Packet Cluster other than wide
distribution ?????

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
is how people can expect to work FT5XO on CW when they can't copy Morse.

Hint to DXers: IF YOU CAN'T COPY CODE, DON'T BOTHER TRYING TO WORK DX ON
CW! That's what SSB and RTTY are for...
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Can't imagine any one who can't copy the code, trying to work CW DX or a
contest.

What you will find is lots of DXers and budding contesters (extra heavy
included) who can't copy much above 20 WPM very well.

Generally these folks can recognize their call sign at any speed, and with a
memory keyer -- pushing buttons (or keyboarding macros) is what they do to
work CW DX or contesting.

So these folks get befuzzled when the DX sends something out of the ordinary
such as QSO NR PSE etc. or UR ZONE ?

Hey it's just a hobby, let the slow guys give contacts -- the DX
(contesters) loves em, especially toward the end of the contest or
DXpedition.

I know one extra lite here who hung in there and with some study and working
contests is now copying 25WPM. Contests are good CW practice -- why deny
that to the newbies ?

PS the DX uses memory keyers or keyboarding too!

Caveat Lector -- A medium speed extra (;-)

Caveat Lector wrote:
Hint to DXers: IF YOU CAN'T COPY CODE, DON'T BOTHER TRYING TO WORK DX ON
CW! That's what SSB and RTTY are for...
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com


Can't imagine any one who can't copy the code, trying to work CW DX or a
contest.

Never said anything about contests.

Any contester of value will welcome any CW op regardless of speed. I
would hope slower CW ops would not be intimidated by my high CQ speed
and would call anyway. (I realize that's probably not realistic) I
will happily slow down to match the speed at which you call me.

There was someone on one of the Chilean islands -- CE0X, I think -- who
didn't know Morse, a few years back. He worked a bunch of RTTY. One of
his RTTY contacts realized his terminal unit would work on CW, and
talked this guy into running a CW sked using his TU. That ended up
being far from his last CW QSO. There wasn't much rate -- automatic
Morse decoders are iffy enough with strong interference-free code,
pileups are a big problem! -- but his much-appreciated effort landed a
bunch of CW ops a rare one. And all with an op who didn't know CW at all...

Generally these folks can recognize their call sign at any speed, and with a
memory keyer -- pushing buttons (or keyboarding macros) is what they do to
work CW DX or contesting.

So these folks get befuzzled when the DX sends something out of the ordinary
such as QSO NR PSE etc. or UR ZONE ?

Or someone else's call, apparently.

My problem, quite simply, is with people who call the DX when the DX has
obviously answered someone else. To be honest I highly doubt poor
copying ability is responsible for most offenses. Usually, this crap
results from liddish behavior on the parts of ops whose Morse speed is
quite respectable. (I know I've worked at least three of the lids in
the FT5XO pile in the ARRL CW SS contest at speeds of at least 26wpm.
You don't complete a Sweepstakes exchange unless you're competent at the
Morse speed in use.)

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
Caveat Lector wrote:
Hint to DXers: IF YOU CAN'T COPY CODE, DON'T BOTHER TRYING TO WORK DX ON
CW! That's what SSB and RTTY are for...
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com


Can't imagine any one who can't copy the code, trying to work CW DX or a
contest.

Never said anything about contests.

Any contester of value will welcome any CW op regardless of speed. I
would hope slower CW ops would not be intimidated by my high CQ speed and
would call anyway. (I realize that's probably not realistic) I will
happily slow down to match the speed at which you call me.

There was someone on one of the Chilean islands -- CE0X, I think -- who
didn't know Morse, a few years back. He worked a bunch of RTTY. One of
his RTTY contacts realized his terminal unit would work on CW, and talked
this guy into running a CW sked using his TU. That ended up being far
from his last CW QSO. There wasn't much rate -- automatic Morse decoders
are iffy enough with strong interference-free code, pileups are a big
problem! -- but his much-appreciated effort landed a bunch of CW ops a
rare one. And all with an op who didn't know CW at all...

Generally these folks can recognize their call sign at any speed, and
with a memory keyer -- pushing buttons (or keyboarding macros) is what
they do to work CW DX or contesting.

So these folks get befuzzled when the DX sends something out of the
ordinary such as QSO NR PSE etc. or UR ZONE ?

Or someone else's call, apparently.

My problem, quite simply, is with people who call the DX when the DX has
obviously answered someone else. To be honest I highly doubt poor copying
ability is responsible for most offenses. Usually, this crap results from
liddish behavior on the parts of ops whose Morse speed is quite
respectable. (I know I've worked at least three of the lids in the FT5XO
pile in the ARRL CW SS contest at speeds of at least 26wpm. You don't
complete a Sweepstakes exchange unless you're competent at the Morse speed
in use.)

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com


Very well stated - yep agree

Doug Smith W9WI said :

Any contester of value will welcome any CW op regardless of speed. I
would hope slower CW ops would not be intimidated by my high CQ speed
and would call anyway. (I realize that's probably not realistic) I
will happily slow down to match the speed at which you call me.

Generally these folks can recognize their call sign at any speed, and with a
memory keyer -- pushing buttons (or keyboarding macros) is what they do to
work CW DX or contesting.

This is something I can relate to. Not being a CW lover, my DXCC was
SSB-only, and until last year, that's all I really operated. That and
a little RTTY and PSK-31.

Well, once I realized that even though my primary DXCC was phone, my
band awards could be mixed, I started to get curious. I still couldn't
do more than about 8 or 9 WPM after not using code for about 20 years
(and never being much good at it even then), so I took to using CW
decoding software. It helped a little but I found it more useless than
useful.

Then I discovered CW contesting as a means to building up my 40 and
80m totals. Intimidating as hell at 35-40 WPM, but with packet spots,
in S&P mode, I could see who I was working; I could audibly confirm
their calls even if it took 3 or 4 tries (or 5 or 6 if they were
really fast). I can pick my own call out of noise easily, I know what
report I was being given back (even serial numbers if I listened
carefully), and all of a sudden I was a lot more comfortable with
code. N1MM generates my replies with good clean CW which helps, too!

I now DX in CW just as happily as in phone (though my TS-570's AGC
makes is painful at times), but I still can't hold a long QSO in that
mode. I just bought a Vibroplex iambic and with luck, my QSO speed
will start back to 17-20 WPM by year's end.

In all of that, I never attempted to throw my call in even once if I
wasn't sure what to expect back. As I listen to the zoo that is FT5XO
on 40, I have to stop and wonder just what level some of these bozos
are at. I'm betting there are some extra-heavies in there (along with
extra-lites). Few seem to understand the concept of split, some fists
are so bad it's agonizing to listen to and the litany of lids who
continue to throw their calls ad-infinitum-ad-nauseum, even as the
MicroLites are transmitting, is enough to drive me batty.

I just have to wonder if CW decoding software is taking a lot of
inDUHviduals from the SSB parts of the bands and making them
pretend-CW ops, fouling it for those who actually know how to listen
and have a clue on how to operate.

73 de Peter, W2IRT
(ex-AB2NZ, VE3THX)

Please reply to Double-you Two Eye Are Tee at Arrl.net

Peter Dougherty wrote:
I now DX in CW just as happily as in phone (though my TS-570's AGC
makes is painful at times), but I still can't hold a long QSO in that
mode. I just bought a Vibroplex iambic and with luck, my QSO speed
will start back to 17-20 WPM by year's end.

Congrats & welcome!

They say "practice makes perfect" and that probably applies more to CW
than pretty much anything else in life...

wasn't sure what to expect back. As I listen to the zoo that is FT5XO
on 40, I have to stop and wonder just what level some of these bozos
are at. I'm betting there are some extra-heavies in there (along with
extra-lites).

I *know* there are "extra-heavies" as some of the calls involved are
well known to me.

Really, I was being facetious when I suggested the problems in the FT5
pile are due to poor general CW skills. They aren't. (for the most
part) The honest DXer whose CW isn't up to the FT5's speed is either
sitting out the CW side of the expedition (and sticking with SSB/RTTY)
or is doing as you are.

Few seem to understand the concept of split, some fists

I do have *one* criticism of the FT5's operating: I don't think they're
indicating that they're split often enough.

I just don't know that it's reasonable to expect people to just
naturally know that any rare expedition is likely to be working split.
That knowledge certainly comes with experience, but every DXer starts
without experience and can only acquire experience by working DX! "TU
FT5XO UP" might be a good idea.

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:05:52 GMT, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:

I do have *one* criticism of the FT5's operating: I don't think they're
indicating that they're split often enough.

I just don't know that it's reasonable to expect people to just
naturally know that any rare expedition is likely to be working split.
That knowledge certainly comes with experience, but every DXer starts
without experience and can only acquire experience by working DX! "TU
FT5XO UP" might be a good idea.


The op on 40 last evening was doing exactly that for almost every qso.

Bob, N7XY

Well, I stumbled across FT5XO on 30 meters this evening... without
benefit of a spot on the cluster, not that I've not been looking for
them on DX Summit too...

Worked on the third call -- in large part because people were a LOT
better behaved and I could actually hear the folks the FT5 was working...
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com