OK, there hasn't been much posted here lately that's actually about DX,
so here goes...

Just worked 6O0N on 20 meters CW. The QSO would have happened much
faster if not for some of the stations listed below:

6O0N: KN5??
Callers: K7LB KC6AWX KA5TQF

6O0N: VE7??
Callers: W6VM AB9H KA5TQF

6O0N: KC6AWX 5NN
Callers: several, but NOT KC6AWX!

6O0N: W9WI 5NN
Caller: K7LB
(I *did* complete the QSO successfully)

6O0N: KA5TQF 5NN
Callers: VE7AHA VE2FVD AA6W (but NOT KA5TQF!)

6O0N: WB??
Caller: AA6W

There are, of course, some patterns here. You can also rest assured the
stations mentioned weren't the only lids calling DX they apparently
can't copy. (I was listening in 500Hz bandwidth on the second receiver
so only heard about 1/4 of the pileup at any given time)

Yes, when the 6O came back to KC6AWX, and later when he came back to
KA5TQF, they didn't hear him... they were calling a DX station they
couldn't hear... I suppose that's probably not a surprise to the real
DXers on this forum... At least to TQF's credit, he did copy the 6O on
the third try...

Add to that the European station who decided to call CQ dead on top of
the 6O without bothering to ask whether the frequency was in use...
(but much to my pleasant surprise, nobody but the 6O told him to QSY...)
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm

Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
OK, there hasn't been much posted here lately that's actually about DX,
so here goes...
[ Lids in Pileups ]

I absolutely share your sentiments. Right now I am listening to
FH/G3TXF on 7022kHz. He is doing a great job, working a good
rate. After observing where he hears, I worked him after two
calls (700W, Dipole). Now that I have worked him, I am leaning
back and have a listen to people calling him; a sad pictu

DF3?
ja5aqc f5tni rn3ok

DF3L?
ja5aqc f5tni rn3ok

OK1 5nn
ur5fav

on TXF's QRG: "ANT TEST DE F5VHZ/P CQ CQ de F5VHZ/P PSE K"
"CQ de F5VHZ/P ANT TEST" -- "QSY QSY" "PSE QSY"
"QRZ de F5VHZ" "LID"
(he absolutely doesn't realize what he is doing!)

QRZ? FH/G3TXF up

SV8DKI? 5nn
ur8mg

G3?B?
ur5fav

G3 G3?
ut5vx ut5vx i3 ur8mg

(NB: I was listening up 2kHz with a narrow filter, although TXF
listened somewhere else most of the time.)

And so on, just a few minutes randomly picked up. It can always
happen that one sends his callsign *once* at the wrong time, for
whatever reason, but the calls I mentioned above were all heard
*several* times, so it's clear to me that they do it on purpose --
how very liddish!
I am sure that one could make a list of *hundreds* of calls with
lids who do this.

Another thing I observed last night, right after the CQWW 160m
ended, was 3V8DLH, calling "CQ WEST COAST", but some EUs,
especially DL4JNB, just kept calling. That made me unbelievably
angry, but I am not one of those who start complaining about it
on the DX frequency!

People need to learn that they are much more successful DXers
when they *LISTEN* before they call! Of the above mentioned
callsigns, some have *still* not made it through the pileup at
the time of writing, although they are certainly not the weakest.

The more I think about it, the more respect I have for guys like
G3TXF, who, in spite of all the horrible lids, QRMers, etc, still
go on DXpeditions and do a great job working their pileups!

73,
--
Fabian Kurz, DJ1YFK/AD5UR * Dresden, Germany * http://fkurz.net/
Last 500 QSOs: http://dl0tud.tu-dresden.de/~dj1yfk/log.html

Fabian Kurz wrote:
And so on, just a few minutes randomly picked up. It can always
happen that one sends his callsign *once* at the wrong time, for
whatever reason, but the calls I mentioned above were all heard
*several* times, so it's clear to me that they do it on purpose --
how very liddish!

Yep, a single "oops" is understandable -- when one transmits every time
the DX stops (and even sometimes when he doesn't!) it's pretty obvious
one don't know what they're doing. It's even more obvious when the DX
comes back to one and they keep calling anyway!

I am sure that one could make a list of *hundreds* of calls with
lids who do this.

Unfortunately, true.

(and with regard to the other reply, I guarantee you the same thing
happens on SSB. To be honest I usually don't even bother with
split-frequency SSB pileups as I usually can't find the guy the DX is
working to figure out where he's listening. (and calling blind on some
random frequency, hoping the DX happens to find me, is not my idea of
fun...))

(Don't have enough experience in digimodes to form an informed opinion.
I did work 5H1C on 15m RTTY just a few minutes later & didn't have any
lid problems. Though that could be because nobody realized 15 was
opengrin, the 5H was CQing his head off usually with no replies.)

People need to learn that they are much more successful DXers
when they *LISTEN* before they call! Of the above mentioned
callsigns, some have *still* not made it through the pileup at
the time of writing, although they are certainly not the weakest.

I guess I always figured there were people calling in pileups who
couldn't hear the DX. I was surprised (maybe naive?) to hear two
blatant examples in just a few minutes.

The more I think about it, the more respect I have for guys like
G3TXF, who, in spite of all the horrible lids, QRMers, etc, still
go on DXpeditions and do a great job working their pileups!

Absolutely! I do pretty well with computer-generated pileups but fear I
wouldn't be nearly as good at the real thing.

G3TXF is one of the best CW ops out there. The day he decides to hang
up his passport & stay home will be a sad day in the DX world...
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm

I am not sure if this is appropriate under this subject, but it may
help explain what is going on. A few weeks ago I spent an evening
when 80 meters was open to Europe listening around the lower CW
portion of the band. Several stations were CQ'ing with no callers,
but they would have an instant pile up shortly after I "spotted" them
on the clusters. I suspect many of these had called before ever
hearing the DX station.

Horses are the only animal I know whose body can travel in separate
parts. Unfortunately, we all know which part we most frequently
encounter on the bands....

On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:58:55 -0500, N1KI wrote:

I am not sure if this is appropriate under this subject, but it may
help explain what is going on. A few weeks ago I spent an evening
when 80 meters was open to Europe listening around the lower CW
portion of the band. Several stations were CQ'ing with no callers,
but they would have an instant pile up shortly after I "spotted" them
on the clusters. I suspect many of these had called before ever
hearing the DX station.

So stop spotting them. If there were no spots, folks would actually
have to listen and find the DX. And the DX would actually have to
give out their calls and announce where they are listening more
frequently, which would be refreshing.

Wes Stewart wrote:
On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:58:55 -0500, N1KI wrote:

I am not sure if this is appropriate under this subject, but it may
help explain what is going on. A few weeks ago I spent an evening
when 80 meters was open to Europe listening around the lower CW
portion of the band. Several stations were CQ'ing with no callers,
but they would have an instant pile up shortly after I "spotted" them
on the clusters. I suspect many of these had called before ever
hearing the DX station.

So stop spotting them. If there were no spots, folks would actually
have to listen and find the DX. And the DX would actually have to
give out their calls and announce where they are listening more
frequently, which would be refreshing.

Instead, we have a contest "who spots first and does so ith the most precise
QSX information at the time of the QSO".

Peter Lemken
DF5JT
Berlin

--
Paul Lincke ist dem Zille sein Milhaud.

(Harry Rowohlt)

Wes Stewart wrote:

So stop spotting them. If there were no spots, folks would actually
have to listen and find the DX. And the DX would actually have to
give out their calls and announce where they are listening more
frequently, which would be refreshing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Amen. Too bad we can't "uninvent" all kinds of spotting. It's a curse,
even though I admit I use it from time to time. A character flaw, to be
sure.

73, Bill W6WRT

\Wes Stewart wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:58:55 -0500, N1KI wrote:


I am not sure if this is appropriate under this subject, but it may
help explain what is going on. A few weeks ago I spent an evening
when 80 meters was open to Europe listening around the lower CW
portion of the band. Several stations were CQ'ing with no callers,
but they would have an instant pile up shortly after I "spotted" them
on the clusters. I suspect many of these had called before ever
hearing the DX station.


So stop spotting them. If there were no spots, folks would actually
have to listen and find the DX. And the DX would actually have to
give out their calls and announce where they are listening more
frequently, which would be refreshing.

NAW!!! No need to stop spotting them. Use spotting to your advantage!
grin

Example: LA4WD is actually working 14010.0 QSX +2

Simply spot them as working 14020.0 QSX +5.

Results: Those who hear 'em work 'em. Those who chase spots are gone !!!!!

N1KI wrote:
I am not sure if this is appropriate under this subject, but it may
help explain what is going on. A few weeks ago I spent an evening
when 80 meters was open to Europe listening around the lower CW
portion of the band. Several stations were CQ'ing with no callers,
but they would have an instant pile up shortly after I "spotted" them
on the clusters. I suspect many of these had called before ever
hearing the DX station.

I think you're probably right on the mark here. I suppose it's
*possible* they heard a pileup & figured they'd just join in (it did
happen in the days before packet) but that high in the band (14035) it
seems rather unlikely.

I don't blame the packet system. (heck, that's how *I* knew the 6O was
there) One would, however, think common sense would tell people even if
you do know which DX station is there, you're going to have to be able
to hear him to make a QSO!

It would be an interesting exercise... for a DXpedition to use custom
software... that issues a random code number for each QSO... and
transmits it. If you want a QSL, you have to provide the right code for
your QSO. I wonder what it would do to the QSL rate if you *had* to
copy the DX?

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm

Doug Smith W9WI wrote:

It would be an interesting exercise... for a DXpedition to use custom
software... that issues a random code number for each QSO... and
transmits it. If you want a QSL, you have to provide the right code for
your QSO. I wonder what it would do to the QSL rate if you *had* to
copy the DX?

That's one heck of a good idea! Alternatively, you can just key the random
code back. If correct, you get "TU", if not, you have two more tries.

Third try without luck is a "not in log".

I like that.

Peter Lemken
DF5JT
Berlin

--
Paul Lincke ist dem Zille sein Milhaud.

(Harry Rowohlt)