Hi,

I am a SWL from Bangalore,India, and i heard from the HAMs here that it
is difficult to have QSOs in 40m band like they used to do some 5 years
back. It seems that they were able to have QSOs with just 5w (distance
of 400KM and more), but now even if they are pumping 50W SSB they are
not able to have comfortable QSOs seperated by a distance of just 50KM.
I designed and built a super het receiver and i am not able to receive
anything in the 40m Band. Are there any reasons for the above said
experiences?
Thanks in advance.

Regards
Shan

Well, we are at solar minimun right now. That could be part of it...



wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I am a SWL from Bangalore,India, and i heard from the HAMs here that it
is difficult to have QSOs in 40m band like they used to do some 5 years
back. It seems that they were able to have QSOs with just 5w (distance
of 400KM and more), but now even if they are pumping 50W SSB they are
not able to have comfortable QSOs seperated by a distance of just 50KM.
I designed and built a super het receiver and i am not able to receive
anything in the 40m Band. Are there any reasons for the above said
experiences?
Thanks in advance.

Regards
Shan

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Well, we are at solar minimun right now. That could be part of it...


Thanks for the reply, but what is meant by solar minimum?

Shan

wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:

Well, we are at solar minimun right now. That could be part of it...



Thanks for the reply, but what is meant by solar minimum?

Shan

Read up on sun spots. If you are going to SWL that is the key to
understanding how the ionosphere changes over 11 year cycle. This has
everything to do with how bands sound.

wrote:
I am a SWL from Bangalore,India, and i heard from the HAMs here that it
is difficult to have QSOs in 40m band like they used to do some 5 years
back. It seems that they were able to have QSOs with just 5w (distance
of 400KM and more), but now even if they are pumping 50W SSB they are
not able to have comfortable QSOs seperated by a distance of just 50KM.
I designed and built a super het receiver and i am not able to receive
anything in the 40m Band. Are there any reasons for the above said
experiences?

If it is more difficult to have QSOs on 40m than it was 5 years ago, I
would say local conditions (noise, interference from broadcast stations)
are to blame. At least here in the eastern US I've heard some of the
best conditions in my 35 years in ham radio on 40m recently.

Generally, the 40m band is almost *always* open to somewhere. During
the day, distances between zero and 700-800km should be common; at
night, strong signals should be available over distances of as much as
8,000km or more.

We are in fact at the sunspot minimum. There is an 11-year cycle to
sunspot activity; these sunspots influence the ionization of the
ionosphere and affect the ability to communicate over long distances on
high frequencies. For example, there will be little or no long-distance
propagation on the 10m band for a few more years.

However, it's pretty rare for the activity to get low enough to make the
40m band completely dead.

Sometimes (and especially at sunspot minimum) the 40m band can develop a
"skip zone". (this is pretty common at higher frequencies) Signals
from stations that are too close will shoot right on out into space -
you can communicate with stations 3,000km away, but those 200km distant
cannot be heard. I suspect this is what's going on: the stations in
your area are too *close*. They could communicate effectively with
other stations in other Indian cities and nearby countries, but not with
stations in the immediate Bangalore area.

I am not familiar with activity levels in India, but I would expect
there to be *some* signals (at least broadcast signals) on 40m at all
times, 24/7. To be honest, if you're hearing nothing, I would suspect
your receiver is not working properly.

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

wrote:

I designed and built a super het receiver and i am not able to receive
anything in the 40m Band. Are there any reasons for the above said
experiences?

What kind of antenna do you use? Indian stations can be heard every night on
40m here in Europe.

Peter Lemken
Berlin

--
Paul Lincke ist dem Zille sein Milhaud.

(Harry Rowohlt)

helmsman wrote:
On 2 May 2006 00:16:43 -0700, wrote:

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Well, we are at solar minimun right now. That could be part of it...


Thanks for the reply, but what is meant by solar minimum?

Shan

Read this http://www.ae4rv.com/tn/propflash.htm

Thanks everybody for the answers. I read about the Solar minimum
yesterday and found it very interesting.

As for Doug's question, i am able to receive the broadcast stations
very strongly, but all through the band there is QRN which sounds likes
continuous shot noise. If i disconnect my antenna, then there is
absolutely no noise except the slight hiss from the preamp. I am not
able to come to any conclusion about what is the reason for the noise
which is very high, even broadcast stations are difficult to receive
sometimes.

To answer Peter's question: I am using a long wire antenna probably
some 20m in length.

As Doug told HAMS from nearby Chennai which is 350KM from Bangalore are
not able to communicate with Bangalore as well as to cities whih are
approximately in 250 KM radius.

Regards
Shan

wrote:
helmsman wrote:
On 2 May 2006 00:16:43 -0700, wrote:

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
Well, we are at solar minimun right now. That could be part of it...


Thanks for the reply, but what is meant by solar minimum?

Shan

Read this http://www.ae4rv.com/tn/propflash.htm

Thanks everybody for the answers. I read about the Solar minimum
yesterday and found it very interesting.


I have another doubt. A 11KV power line is running some 20 feet away
from my antenna. My doubt is whether this power line may be responsible
for the QRN?

Regards
Shan

I doubt it, but I wonder ..

wrote:
As for Doug's question, i am able to receive the broadcast stations
very strongly, but all through the band there is QRN which sounds likes
continuous shot noise. If i disconnect my antenna, then there is
absolutely no noise except the slight hiss from the preamp. I am not
able to come to any conclusion about what is the reason for the noise
which is very high, even broadcast stations are difficult to receive
sometimes.

Regards
Shan


There is a technique in the radio world called Over The Horizon radar
or, for short, OTH. It is a pulse type radar operation which is used in
the high frequency spectrum, often in the 40 meter area of the
spectrum. The transmitter pulses are fired off at a repetition rate
which, when heard by a 'normal' receiver, like shots being fired over
and over. In common use of this system, these normally very high power
pulses, at least in the uses in older times like this, like a woodpecker
bird battering at a tree. Hence the old name "Woodpecker" for it. A
number of countries have used the technique which fires these high power
bursts of radio energy over the horizon and then listens for the return
echo from far beyond the transmitter/receiver site(s).


The intent has been to track ships at sea, other moving objects, sea
wave and other weather issues .. from far beyond what normal direct
line-of-site radar service would be able to deliver from beyond what the
curvature of the earth would allow, irrespective of the path length of
the 'normal' radar beam.


Amateur radio operators and SWL's have long had very unpleasant feelings
about this use of radio spectrum. If you think about it, since this
service depends on the radio pulses being able to use 'skip' techniques,
and being reflected off the ionosphere to reach and return to the agency
which uses this, the pulse-type transmissions are 'competitive' for
whatever frequency is in use. For their purposes, these OTH services
are not going to get back much energy from the 'echo' from hundreds or
thousands of miles away. Surely far less signal than you get from
commercial broadcast SW transmitter stations and for SURE less from
distant ham radio stations. As well, since the return signal is so
naturally weak for this OTH operation, the use of OTH is usually focused
on using WHATEVER frequency area which is. at any given time, the
optimum for propogation over the desired path to and from the target of
interest to the OTH operations. And high power, yes VERY high power
transmissions, are used for this plus HUGH antenna arrays as felt are
needed by those who use OTH.


As well, since there is no control over virtually any other radio
service in use on any frequency in the general range for the optimum
needed for these terribly weak echoes produced from the normally huge
transmitter pulses, the operator of the OTH operation has, at least in
the past, used multiple frequencies or 'nodes' in any given frequency
range. That to optimize the possibility of getting back an echo. And
as well, the technique has used a sliding transmission frequency
technique which continuously wiggles the channel all over the optimum
path channel frequency area.


Much to the disgust of any 'normal' user of the band in question, such
as the ham operators, SWL's and so forth. Since you are Internet
oriented enough to post here for help or education, you ought to be able
to use a search engine such as Google or whatever to collect more
information on OTH. If you have an operating system and client software
for audio, I think you can even find a few audio samples of the OTH
operations from at least a few of the very disgusted hams who have been
plagued with this.


It used to be a MAJOR problem for the 40 and 20 meter ham crew back in
the 70's or so. And lately, it has again apparently become a tool of
choice for gathering whatever military or weather use is thought
'proper' by whomever has started using this radio technique again. I've
read that the transmitter site or sites is or are now focused in the
Indian and Pacific ocean area, for those which are creating major
interference to hams and SWL's wanting to use 40, 30 and 20 meter
services.


If this isn't a 24 hour a day issue with you, look all this up. If it
is an all day long every day issue, then if you really want to track it
down, you'll need to learn about directional receiving antennas such as
loops. You'll need to be able to tool up to take you receiver and the
directional receiving antenna out in the area around you. You'll need
to be able to track the direction of the interference down to a general
area. Then there are other tools which can be used to narrow the search
for the interference to the specific cause, depending on what is causing
it.


W5WQN

--


-- Sleep well; OS2's still awake!

Mike Luther

wrote:
I have another doubt. A 11KV power line is running some 20 feet away
from my antenna. My doubt is whether this power line may be responsible
for the QRN?

That's VERY possible. High-voltage lines like that tend to be pretty
noisy.

On the other hand, while it could certainly cause noise for you, it
shouldn't cause noise elsewhere in the city - other hams shouldn't have
problems.

I wonder if maybe a shortwave broadcasting transmitter, especially one
on the 41m band, has a fault and is radiating spurious noise? If the
noise is that strong, I would think such a fault could be heard
elsewhere in India, maybe within 400km or so during the day and quite a
bit further at night. The recent VU4 Andaman expedition didn't mention
anything like that though, and I'd think it *would* be audible on VU4 at
night if it was that loud.

Do you have the capability of listening on other frequency bands? Is
this noise present in the 49m (6MHz) shortwave broadcasting band? In
the 80m (3.5MHz) and/or 20m (14MHz) ham bands? How about in the MW
broadcasting band? Or on TV? (assuming you're using analog terrestrial
over-the-air reception)
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com