JDer8745 wrote:

Howdy,

Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the
letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo".

73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's...

kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis


Of course, for my callsign I could use

Knife Zucchini One Oedipus

or even

Kilo Zero One One

73,
kz1o

The ATC thing reminds me of a problem that my dad and I had when we flew
a Cessna 172, whose tail number was N466SR. Whenever we'd say "November
4 6 6 Sierra Romeo", there was a 50-50 chance that ground would reply to
"zero romeo" (our 'sierra' sounded like 'zero'). Whenever we used
"sugar romeo" as the phonetic, they always got it first time.

LRod wrote:

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector"
wrote:


Ah phonetics


Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence.

The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a
*standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood,
in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be
necessary.

First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years
and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately
familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a
daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page
by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the
standard words.

However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I
found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of
shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as
"kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I
used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by
the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO.

The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally
understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt
I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work.

Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would
have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur
radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams
(or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely
to have even heard of it.

The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for
"kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of
"kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and
"watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly
and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable.

Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful
communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are
very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England,
France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who
doesn't immediately recognize those words.

Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we
have no particular external requirement to get our communications
completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are
required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken
Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In
amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If
"Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably,
it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick
with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a
proven winner.


LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

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The ATC thing reminds me of a problem that my dad and I had when we flew
a Cessna 172, whose tail number was N466SR. Whenever we'd say "November
4 6 6 Sierra Romeo", there was a 50-50 chance that ground would reply to
"zero romeo" (our 'sierra' sounded like 'zero'). Whenever we used
"sugar romeo" as the phonetic, they always got it first time.

LRod wrote:

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector"
wrote:


Ah phonetics


Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence.

The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a
*standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood,
in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be
necessary.

First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years
and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately
familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a
daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page
by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the
standard words.

However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I
found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of
shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as
"kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I
used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by
the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO.

The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally
understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt
I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work.

Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would
have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur
radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams
(or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely
to have even heard of it.

The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for
"kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of
"kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and
"watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly
and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable.

Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful
communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are
very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England,
France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who
doesn't immediately recognize those words.

Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we
have no particular external requirement to get our communications
completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are
required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken
Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In
amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If
"Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably,
it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick
with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a
proven winner.


LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

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message will be deleted, unread)

How about Knot Zinciferous Onomatopoeia One? That seems really
quite clear in a phonetic sense. Or am I missing something...

:-)


Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for
the
letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo".

73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's...

kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis


Of course, for my callsign I could use

Knife Zucchini One Oedipus

or even

Kilo Zero One One

73,
kz1o

How about Knot Zinciferous Onomatopoeia One? That seems really
quite clear in a phonetic sense. Or am I missing something...

:-)


Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for
the
letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo".

73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's...

kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis


Of course, for my callsign I could use

Knife Zucchini One Oedipus

or even

Kilo Zero One One

73,
kz1o

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector"
wrote:

Ah phonetics

Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence.

The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a
*standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood,
in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be
necessary.

First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years
and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately
familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a
daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page
by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the
standard words.

However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I
found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of
shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as
"kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I
used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by
the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO.

The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally
understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt
I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work.

Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would
have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur
radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams
(or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely
to have even heard of it.

The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for
"kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of
"kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and
"watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly
and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable.

Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful
communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are
very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England,
France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who
doesn't immediately recognize those words.

Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we
have no particular external requirement to get our communications
completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are
required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken
Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In
amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If
"Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably,
it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick
with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a
proven winner.


LRod


I would've never thought this would've been an issue. My *own* method has to
generally adhere to the standard phonetics during message traffic, and
anything goes in informal QSOs. For example, the first time I ever signed
on years ago with KC4KWH, one of the guys on the local repeater remarked,
"AH! It's 'kilowatt hours"! And the name stuck. But he was not the only
one to think of it. When I "graduated" to HF, many times diverse hams
;picked up on those phonetics without any prompt-ing from me---even when I
sounded the suffix as
"kilo whiskey hotel", the guy was likely to respond with
'kilowatt hours'. During difficult conditions, I, too, have resorted to
kilowatt hours, and it *seems* to be universally understood. One or two in
the electrical industry said, "Boy, I wish I could 'buy' that call". LOL!
So when Vanity came along, I just dropped the 'c' and
became K4KWH.

Bottom line is, aw c'mon guys, relax and don't be so serious!

73

Jerry
K4KWH
(Kilowatt Hours)

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector"
wrote:

Ah phonetics

Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence.

The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a
*standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood,
in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be
necessary.

First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years
and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately
familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a
daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page
by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the
standard words.

However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I
found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of
shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as
"kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I
used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by
the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO.

The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally
understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt
I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work.

Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would
have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur
radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams
(or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely
to have even heard of it.

The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for
"kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of
"kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and
"watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly
and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable.

Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful
communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are
very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England,
France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who
doesn't immediately recognize those words.

Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we
have no particular external requirement to get our communications
completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are
required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken
Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In
amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If
"Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably,
it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick
with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a
proven winner.


LRod


I would've never thought this would've been an issue. My *own* method has to
generally adhere to the standard phonetics during message traffic, and
anything goes in informal QSOs. For example, the first time I ever signed
on years ago with KC4KWH, one of the guys on the local repeater remarked,
"AH! It's 'kilowatt hours"! And the name stuck. But he was not the only
one to think of it. When I "graduated" to HF, many times diverse hams
;picked up on those phonetics without any prompt-ing from me---even when I
sounded the suffix as
"kilo whiskey hotel", the guy was likely to respond with
'kilowatt hours'. During difficult conditions, I, too, have resorted to
kilowatt hours, and it *seems* to be universally understood. One or two in
the electrical industry said, "Boy, I wish I could 'buy' that call". LOL!
So when Vanity came along, I just dropped the 'c' and
became K4KWH.

Bottom line is, aw c'mon guys, relax and don't be so serious!

73

Jerry
K4KWH
(Kilowatt Hours)

"Steve Silverwood" wrote in message
...
In article , jder8745
@aol.com says...
Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for
the
letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo".

Could this be considered, "hamming it up?"

groan

Steve - this sort of nit-pick has no place in ham radio. There are many
phonetic word lists, and they all have different words: International,
Police, ITU, ARRL, Navy, Western Union, ICAO(CAA) - and not a one of them is
illegal to use, and even the cute self-created ones work just fine. Yes, if
I were doing police dispatching, I would use the police phonetics. But this
is amateur radio, and it's supposed to be fun. In Ohio days I stopped using
WILD ZEBRAS 8 ALFALFA because the "8" got confused with the "A"(as in
"ate"). But as long as you could tell the call was WZ8A, it was legal. You
would probably correct me if I said my "handle is Andy." Understand that the
use of "handle," as a cute substitute for "name," was going on long before
CB ever existed. I was saying "my handle is Andy" on the 11-meter ham band
back in 1959. Hams probably picked it up from the military. The strict
protocol may be good training for traffic nets and such, but please loosen
up a little. That stuffed-shirt stuff could take the fun out of the hobby
for a beginner, and there is no reason for it. Think I'll turn on the rig
and send a "dit-dah-dah-dit-dit" waiting for a "dit-dit" back (instead of a
CQ call). It's legal, as long as I send my call within ten minutes.

73, King 4 Young King Zebra

"Steve Silverwood" wrote in message
...
In article , jder8745
@aol.com says...
Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for
the
letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo".

Could this be considered, "hamming it up?"

groan

Steve - this sort of nit-pick has no place in ham radio. There are many
phonetic word lists, and they all have different words: International,
Police, ITU, ARRL, Navy, Western Union, ICAO(CAA) - and not a one of them is
illegal to use, and even the cute self-created ones work just fine. Yes, if
I were doing police dispatching, I would use the police phonetics. But this
is amateur radio, and it's supposed to be fun. In Ohio days I stopped using
WILD ZEBRAS 8 ALFALFA because the "8" got confused with the "A"(as in
"ate"). But as long as you could tell the call was WZ8A, it was legal. You
would probably correct me if I said my "handle is Andy." Understand that the
use of "handle," as a cute substitute for "name," was going on long before
CB ever existed. I was saying "my handle is Andy" on the 11-meter ham band
back in 1959. Hams probably picked it up from the military. The strict
protocol may be good training for traffic nets and such, but please loosen
up a little. That stuffed-shirt stuff could take the fun out of the hobby
for a beginner, and there is no reason for it. Think I'll turn on the rig
and send a "dit-dah-dah-dit-dit" waiting for a "dit-dit" back (instead of a
CQ call). It's legal, as long as I send my call within ten minutes.

73, King 4 Young King Zebra

I tried that one, but some Zulu tribes have an issue with it (and I
couldn't bust the Zulu pileup). So I went with Zsa-Zsa (as in Gabor).

Dave
kz1o

Tom wrote:

How about Knot Zinciferous Onomatopoeia One? That seems really
quite clear in a phonetic sense. Or am I missing something...

:-)



Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for

the

letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo".

73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's...

kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis


Of course, for my callsign I could use

Knife Zucchini One Oedipus

or even

Kilo Zero One One

73,
kz1o





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