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Cutting your own
I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering
cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?) |
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:47:26 +0100, "Airy R. Bean"
wrote: I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?) My dear Airy, I am so pleased to hear of your proposed project. The 'Raw Material' is readily available here in Cornwall, its called Quartz, and is free for those willing to collect it. However if you send me a large SAE I'll send you a few tons. HI I'll assume the question is a genuine one about the Oxley trimmers so... AFIR it was two variables in one encapsulation, one with a positive temp coeficient and the other negative. when you varied the trimmer it added one coeficient and reduced the other, without changing the capacitance.. At least thats the way it was explained to me many years ago. I hav'nt seen one for years except in my junk box, and come to think of it I hav'nt seen those for a while. hth Mike W |
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:47:26 +0100, "Airy R. Bean"
wrote: I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?) My dear Airy, I am so pleased to hear of your proposed project. The 'Raw Material' is readily available here in Cornwall, its called Quartz, and is free for those willing to collect it. However if you send me a large SAE I'll send you a few tons. HI I'll assume the question is a genuine one about the Oxley trimmers so... AFIR it was two variables in one encapsulation, one with a positive temp coeficient and the other negative. when you varied the trimmer it added one coeficient and reduced the other, without changing the capacitance.. At least thats the way it was explained to me many years ago. I hav'nt seen one for years except in my junk box, and come to think of it I hav'nt seen those for a while. hth Mike W |
In article ,
says... | I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering | cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source | of raw material? Yes, open up an old crystal if you really must consider cutting your own crystals. It is a very tricky task, so practise on scrap ones first. Any crystal cut, will then take lots of time to settle and age. Far better to use an old crystal which has already achieved stability 'as is', rather than start the aging process off again. | | Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. | (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's | Tempatrimmer?) | | A good quality crystal in an oven which provides proportional temperature control, rather than on/off switching is difficult to beat once it has had an hour to settle. Even better is a double ovened crystal. Old lab grade equipment is a good source for these. If you really must have the ultimate stand-alone standard then rubidium standards are coming onto the second-hand market at quite affordable prices. Another solution is to build a little gadget which derives a frequency standard off-the-air, phase locked using a PLL. Suitable sources are 198Khz LW and slightly less accurate, the line timebase of a TV tuned and synched to a BBC channel (15,625 hertz). This is what I have used to check the calibration of my own instruments for the past 20 years. You would probably need that latter item anyway, otherwise what would you calibrate your own standard against? -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT)... Remove the 'NOSPAM' in my email address to reply. Free Amateur Radio Courses:- http://www.ukradioamateur.org |
Try http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm
Far more stable than cutting your own crystal, can't imagine why you think making one yourself would be more stable than a good surplus xtal and oven. Steve H "Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/03 |
Try http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm
Far more stable than cutting your own crystal, can't imagine why you think making one yourself would be more stable than a good surplus xtal and oven. Steve H "Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/03 |
"Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals If your question was in the context of help with cutting your own throat, rather than cutting crystals, this could possibly turn out to be the longest thread ever posted to Usenet! HTH tox |
"Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals If your question was in the context of help with cutting your own throat, rather than cutting crystals, this could possibly turn out to be the longest thread ever posted to Usenet! HTH tox |
In article ,
says... Try http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm Far more stable than cutting your own crystal, can't imagine why you think making one yourself would be more stable than a good surplus xtal and oven. ...And it's disciplined to GPS as well. Can't get much more stable than that. 'Bout the same as a cesium standard, if I recall correctly. -- Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute (Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR) kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green) |
In article ,
says... Try http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm Far more stable than cutting your own crystal, can't imagine why you think making one yourself would be more stable than a good surplus xtal and oven. ...And it's disciplined to GPS as well. Can't get much more stable than that. 'Bout the same as a cesium standard, if I recall correctly. -- Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute (Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR) kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green) |
It's easier to make the shack and buy a crystal
|
It's easier to make the shack and buy a crystal
|
"Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?) So much for Radio Amateurs 'knowing' their hobby. The Cb'er makes himself known when he blurts out a foolish question on this NG. |
"Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?) So much for Radio Amateurs 'knowing' their hobby. The Cb'er makes himself known when he blurts out a foolish question on this NG. |
In article ,
says... |Try http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm |Far more stable than cutting your own crystal, can't imagine why you think making one yourself would |be more stable than a good surplus xtal and oven. A real radio amateur would build and set up their own network of GPS satellites ;-) -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) http://www.ukradioamateur.org |
In article ,
says... |Try http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm |Far more stable than cutting your own crystal, can't imagine why you think making one yourself would |be more stable than a good surplus xtal and oven. A real radio amateur would build and set up their own network of GPS satellites ;-) -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) http://www.ukradioamateur.org |
Oops! Posted it to the wrong group!
Reg Edwards wrote in message ... It's easier to make the shack and buy a crystal |
Oops! Posted it to the wrong group!
Reg Edwards wrote in message ... It's easier to make the shack and buy a crystal |
am considering
cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. ============================ Ahhhh, you've unearthed the philosopher's stone. Any left-over scraps to spare for me? I'm in great need and will collect. Are you in the Call Book? |
am considering
cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. ============================ Ahhhh, you've unearthed the philosopher's stone. Any left-over scraps to spare for me? I'm in great need and will collect. Are you in the Call Book? |
Was intended for alt.horology, a reference to pallet stones.
Reg Edwards wrote in message ... am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Ahhhh, you've unearthed the philosopher's stone. Any left-over scraps to spare for me? I'm in great need and will collect. Are you in the Call Book? |
Was intended for alt.horology, a reference to pallet stones.
Reg Edwards wrote in message ... am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Ahhhh, you've unearthed the philosopher's stone. Any left-over scraps to spare for me? I'm in great need and will collect. Are you in the Call Book? |
"Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... Was intended for alt.horology, a reference to pallet stones. A most unconvincing attempt to cover up a major faux pas. Your original post said: "I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?)" Let us examine this a little: "make a master oscillator for the shack". Well that could be a construed as referring to the 'balance wheel' in a clock (or watch) escapment but only by a leap beyond the credible. "own crystals in order to reduce ageing" The "crystals" used in the pallet of an escapement are using usually synthethtic ruby and, while the changing of their profile can contribute to a loss of accuracy, the 'ageing problem' is wear on the escape wheel and, while this is related to the 'cut' of the pallet stones, other aspects of the system accuracy determine the various profiles in this area (in particular the need for the escape lever to provide the impetus to the 'balance' wheel). "I am considering the use of bi-metals." The escape mechanism in a clock (or watch) is often temperature compensated but the mechanism is either on the "balance" wheel (the radius is changed to vary the angular momentum) or the balance spring (the tension being varied). Neither of these align with the mechanism of a tempratrimmer. As regards accuracy, the limits for a certified chronometer are -0 +5s per day, if memory serves me correctly. There are far more practical ways to achieve better than this without resorting to cutting pallet stones. No Gareth, you were just trying to start another thread where you didn't understand the topic. Having realised your error you are now trying to divert the thread- as it happens into an area where your knowledge seems equally challenged. |
"Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... Was intended for alt.horology, a reference to pallet stones. A most unconvincing attempt to cover up a major faux pas. Your original post said: "I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?)" Let us examine this a little: "make a master oscillator for the shack". Well that could be a construed as referring to the 'balance wheel' in a clock (or watch) escapment but only by a leap beyond the credible. "own crystals in order to reduce ageing" The "crystals" used in the pallet of an escapement are using usually synthethtic ruby and, while the changing of their profile can contribute to a loss of accuracy, the 'ageing problem' is wear on the escape wheel and, while this is related to the 'cut' of the pallet stones, other aspects of the system accuracy determine the various profiles in this area (in particular the need for the escape lever to provide the impetus to the 'balance' wheel). "I am considering the use of bi-metals." The escape mechanism in a clock (or watch) is often temperature compensated but the mechanism is either on the "balance" wheel (the radius is changed to vary the angular momentum) or the balance spring (the tension being varied). Neither of these align with the mechanism of a tempratrimmer. As regards accuracy, the limits for a certified chronometer are -0 +5s per day, if memory serves me correctly. There are far more practical ways to achieve better than this without resorting to cutting pallet stones. No Gareth, you were just trying to start another thread where you didn't understand the topic. Having realised your error you are now trying to divert the thread- as it happens into an area where your knowledge seems equally challenged. |
"RVMJ" wrote in message
... Airy R. Bean wrote to uk.radio.amateur and rec.radio.amateur.misc "I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?)" Then when offered relevant advice on the subjects mentioned, said "Was intended for alt.horology, a reference to pallet stones" This latter statement has also attracted a considered reply. Mr Bean has not yet corrected his posting error, and so for the information of alt.horology, have added them to the FUs. Perhaps we should call him Nero, with everything burning up around him he just keeps on fiddling about. Alternatively we could call him Thomas as in Crapper; a tribute to the quality of his posts. -- ;) 73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint. |
"RVMJ" wrote in message
... Airy R. Bean wrote to uk.radio.amateur and rec.radio.amateur.misc "I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?)" Then when offered relevant advice on the subjects mentioned, said "Was intended for alt.horology, a reference to pallet stones" This latter statement has also attracted a considered reply. Mr Bean has not yet corrected his posting error, and so for the information of alt.horology, have added them to the FUs. Perhaps we should call him Nero, with everything burning up around him he just keeps on fiddling about. Alternatively we could call him Thomas as in Crapper; a tribute to the quality of his posts. -- ;) 73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint. |
"Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?) DAMN! I thought you were going to say throat/wrists, and was going to reply that in your case it is an excellent idea. Not you've gone and spoiled all my fun |
"Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... I wish to make a master oscillator for the shack, and am considering cutting my own crystals in order to reduce ageing. Is there a source of raw material? Also, for temperature compensation, I am considering the use of bi-metals. (I've never seen one, but what is the mechanism used in Oxley's Tempatrimmer?) DAMN! I thought you were going to say throat/wrists, and was going to reply that in your case it is an excellent idea. Not you've gone and spoiled all my fun |
WRONG! It was intended as a joke, but from the headers,
only the NEGATIVE NERDS (of which group you are rapidly becoming a member; no doubt the reason for your "Upgrade" to a CB/M3 licence) in general responded. Your response in general is one of obsessive sneering; a poor reaction to the justifiable criticism of, and your loss of face due to, your support for the gangrenous degeneration that is the M3/CB licence. Your desperation to score points has blinded you..... Brian Reay wrote in message ... "Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... Was intended for alt.horology, a reference to pallet stones. A most unconvincing attempt to cover up a major faux pas. |
WRONG! It was intended as a joke, but from the headers,
only the NEGATIVE NERDS (of which group you are rapidly becoming a member; no doubt the reason for your "Upgrade" to a CB/M3 licence) in general responded. Your response in general is one of obsessive sneering; a poor reaction to the justifiable criticism of, and your loss of face due to, your support for the gangrenous degeneration that is the M3/CB licence. Your desperation to score points has blinded you..... Brian Reay wrote in message ... "Airy R. Bean" wrote in message ... Was intended for alt.horology, a reference to pallet stones. A most unconvincing attempt to cover up a major faux pas. |
Your desperation to score points has blinded you.....
WRONG! It was a reference to a pendulum, and not to a balance wheel; I am considering the manufacture of a Regulator. You may find that the concept of master oscillators in clocks to be "a leap beyond" the credible, but that's an OU degree (6 'O' Levels at best) and an M3/CB licence for you. Brian Reay wrote in message ... "make a master oscillator for the shack". Well that could be a construed as referring to the 'balance wheel' in a clock (or watch) escapment but only by a leap beyond the credible. |
Your desperation to score points has blinded you.....
WRONG! It was a reference to a pendulum, and not to a balance wheel; I am considering the manufacture of a Regulator. You may find that the concept of master oscillators in clocks to be "a leap beyond" the credible, but that's an OU degree (6 'O' Levels at best) and an M3/CB licence for you. Brian Reay wrote in message ... "make a master oscillator for the shack". Well that could be a construed as referring to the 'balance wheel' in a clock (or watch) escapment but only by a leap beyond the credible. |
Your desperation to score points has blinded you.....
WRONG! The ageing problem when NOT using pallet stones is wear on the pallets themselves, a problem in the two clocks that I have restored recently. The NEGATIVE NERDS who seem to be my cataloguers will tell you what they were. Hence it is better to use pallet stones than not at all, and so my query for a source of them. WRONG! Your comments relating to loss of accuracy are WRONG in your assumption because I am considerng the use of a gravity escapement. Brian Reay wrote in message ... "own crystals in order to reduce ageing" The "crystals" used in the pallet of an escapement are using usually synthethtic ruby and, while the changing of their profile can contribute to a loss of accuracy, the 'ageing problem' is wear on the escape wheel and, while this is related to the 'cut' of the pallet stones, other aspects of the system accuracy determine the various profiles in this area (in particular the need for the escape lever to provide the impetus to the 'balance' wheel). |
Your desperation to score points has blinded you.....
WRONG! The ageing problem when NOT using pallet stones is wear on the pallets themselves, a problem in the two clocks that I have restored recently. The NEGATIVE NERDS who seem to be my cataloguers will tell you what they were. Hence it is better to use pallet stones than not at all, and so my query for a source of them. WRONG! Your comments relating to loss of accuracy are WRONG in your assumption because I am considerng the use of a gravity escapement. Brian Reay wrote in message ... "own crystals in order to reduce ageing" The "crystals" used in the pallet of an escapement are using usually synthethtic ruby and, while the changing of their profile can contribute to a loss of accuracy, the 'ageing problem' is wear on the escape wheel and, while this is related to the 'cut' of the pallet stones, other aspects of the system accuracy determine the various profiles in this area (in particular the need for the escape lever to provide the impetus to the 'balance' wheel). |
Your desperation to score points has blinded you.....
You are certainly the equal of the other CBers in the NEGATIVE NERDS.....childish, sneering, and consistently technically in error. You sneered recently at my technical proposal to address the deficiencies in the offered explanations for sampling in DSP systems, "Big K", but when I challenged you, you were quite unable to debate the point.....ever had an M3/CB licence or an OU degree? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Brian Reay wrote in message ... No you were just trying to start another thread where you didn't understand the topic. Having realised your error you are now trying to divert the thread- as it happens into an area where your knowledge seems equally challenged. |
Your desperation to score points has blinded you.....
You are certainly the equal of the other CBers in the NEGATIVE NERDS.....childish, sneering, and consistently technically in error. You sneered recently at my technical proposal to address the deficiencies in the offered explanations for sampling in DSP systems, "Big K", but when I challenged you, you were quite unable to debate the point.....ever had an M3/CB licence or an OU degree? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Brian Reay wrote in message ... No you were just trying to start another thread where you didn't understand the topic. Having realised your error you are now trying to divert the thread- as it happens into an area where your knowledge seems equally challenged. |
Your desperation to score points has blinded you.....
WRONG! once again. The mechanism is NOT on the balance wheel, 'cos there won't be one, and neither will there be a balance spring - a little knowledge is dangerous, and the combination of an OU degree (6 'O' levels at best) and M3/CB licence show your knowledge and understanding up for what they are worth. Do all your pronouncements result from 5 minutes on the Web? The temperature compensation I am considering is John "Longitude" Harrison's Grid Iron. Tempatrimmer? All part of the joke, but I doubt that your apparent emotional imbalance demonstrated by your sneering tirade gives you any scope to recognise humour. Brian Reay wrote in message ... "I am considering the use of bi-metals." The escape mechanism in a clock (or watch) is often temperature compensated but the mechanism is either on the "balance" wheel (the radius is changed to vary the angular momentum) or the balance spring (the tension being varied). Neither of these align with the mechanism of a tempratrimmer. |
Your desperation to score points has blinded you.....
WRONG! once again. The mechanism is NOT on the balance wheel, 'cos there won't be one, and neither will there be a balance spring - a little knowledge is dangerous, and the combination of an OU degree (6 'O' levels at best) and M3/CB licence show your knowledge and understanding up for what they are worth. Do all your pronouncements result from 5 minutes on the Web? The temperature compensation I am considering is John "Longitude" Harrison's Grid Iron. Tempatrimmer? All part of the joke, but I doubt that your apparent emotional imbalance demonstrated by your sneering tirade gives you any scope to recognise humour. Brian Reay wrote in message ... "I am considering the use of bi-metals." The escape mechanism in a clock (or watch) is often temperature compensated but the mechanism is either on the "balance" wheel (the radius is changed to vary the angular momentum) or the balance spring (the tension being varied). Neither of these align with the mechanism of a tempratrimmer. |
"Airy R. Bean" wrote in message
... WRONG! It was intended as a joke, Yes Gareth. Of course Gareth. |
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