"Bob Bob" wrote in message
...
Hi Peter

As much as I'd like to believe this problem is isolated to radio users I
think it is actually a sociological state that the world has gotten into.
People are generally less tolerant than they use to be, more ready to
litigate, less happy, more selfish and finding that laws dont actually
reflect their concerns. ie lots of stupid ones get passed.

I came up with this upsetting conclusion some years ago and was intent on
isolating myself out in country NSW and choosing what amateurs I would
communicate with. In my case those only interested in technical discussion
and the joy of expermenting. Given at the time this restricted me to
50MHz there was a good chance that a lot of undesirables werent
interested in optimizing their stations and thus wouldnt appear as often.
(Why would you build an expensive 2m SSB station for example just to get
angry at someone?)

I think the world will generally get worse, amateur radio included.
Apologies for the prediction but I really do think it is that bad.

I have however moved to Texas in the US. The veil of "niceness" here seems
to come from the good manners associated with local religous beliefs.
There is also a great lack of person to person contact outside of shopping
and church (if you exclude family) and the concern that walking on ones
property will get you shot! Virtually nobody walks anywhere and cell
phones are the escape for those that have to drive! I guess if you dont
interface with people you arent likley to get into conflicts with each
other!

Amateur radio here tends to be held in much higher esteem than on Oz. This
is especially so after the recent hurricanes and general civil emergency
use during tornado season. (now!) 2m FM gets a lot of civil and 3rd party
traffic but I do hear occasional nasty people populating 20m. They seem to
be within a few hundred km. Thats my fault I guess for putting up an
antenna with a high angle radiation pattern!

Cheers Bob W5/VK2YQA East Texas

Cosmo wrote:
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

Though the poster was referring to primarily to Ham Radio - I agree with
you - it isn't limited to just radio. It is a problem within society. Road
Rage - is another instance. People never used to be so bad in that respect
either. I'm sure we can mention any number of areas that fall prey. My
original post said - the world is going to hell in a handbasket -
quick...... A good start to fixing, is each of us taking responsibility for
our own actions. We all know what the rules and laws are - they were put
there for us all to get along with. Any ingnorance of or towards any of
those rules/laws - creates problems.

clf

"Cosmo" wrote in message
u...
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

I find the operations by some licensed amateurs and perhaps a pirate
station
is just appalling. Operators and I use the word loosely, making threats at
each other, whistling over each other and discussing tracking operators
down
to sort them out!
It sounded like the 27Mhz CB band back in the mid seventies.

[SNIP]
..
I also believe that the looming threat to this great hobby come from
within
as mach as from outside forces, and there fore suggest that something akin
to intruder watch be applied to monitoring amateur operations as I think
the
authorities response will be that we need to self regulate.


It's also very hard to "self-regulate" and sort out the problem operators
when the regulator doesn't even give a damn anymore..

I know it isn't Amateur band, but a recent episode on the UHF CB emergency
channel where an 'emergency monitor' responded to a brief button pusher with
the comment "some dickheads have no ****ing brains...." obtained a response
from ACMA that such operation was not considered offensive or wrong...
Maybe not on many local repeaters, but how many people expect a torrent of
abuse from an emergency monitor on the emergency channels??

I've said this before and I will keep saying it - no matter what band we are
talking about the amount of abuse and morons will continue to increase while
ever the rest of the operators feel it is someone else's problem to deal
with it... No doubt there are some new F calls, just like there were some
new H calls a few years ago, that don't operate within what many consider
"acceptable practices", but there are also a lot of others that do the same
and until the majority of the operators are willing to stand up and either
educate the relevant operators, OR, petition the ACMA and/or WIA to take
action and make necessary changes, the problem will continue.

I know from experience how quickly the ACMA can act on a complaint when they
want to, and how they can quickly and easily solve the problem. The trouble
is that nobody, or not enough, seem willing to get involved and help in the
"self-regulate" procedure, which basically means that if a gentle talking to
doesn't help (or the problem is far too serious), that the relevant
information and evidence be handed to the ACMA with an official complaint.

Perhaps the WIA does indeed need to look at a modified form of "intruder
watch" that would encourage amateurs (not just WIA members) to "dob in"
problem operators and then the WIA takes the matter to ACMA to help ensure
something actually gets done. After all, they are "our bands" and while
ever we are willing to tolerate such behaviour the ACMA is not likely to
care less - if that results in a downturn in numbers or sever misuse of the
bands, then that's a bonus to ACMA as they then get more spectrum to sell
off!!!

Cheers

Martin, VK2UMJ

flame-protective suit on

I have also heard this same type of behaviour on a Melbourne repeater just 3
days back and it involved 2 full call operators at first, then another
operator joined them and tried to quell the situation but without any luck.
I myself have just joined the amateur ranks and was very disapointed to hear
this sort of thing happening, this is something I would have expected to
hear on the CB bands, but not on amateur radio. I can only hope this was an
isolated incident as I achieved my licence to get away from this type of
activity.

Cheers and 73`s to all.

Graeme VK3FTTG
"Cosmo" wrote in message
u...
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

I find the operations by some licensed amateurs and perhaps a pirate
station
is just appalling. Operators and I use the word loosely, making threats at
each other, whistling over each other and discussing tracking operators
down
to sort them out!
It sounded like the 27Mhz CB band back in the mid seventies.

I can remember when amateurs took pride in their operating practices and
gentlemanly behaviour. If this what it is to become why would anyone be
attracted to the hobby unless perhaps they are an ignorant thugs. It
appears
to me and I know I will be condemned for this, but we seem to have
accepting
lower standards in more ways than we expected.

I believe that simply ignoring these operating practices and these
operators
will allow segments of the bands to become no go ghettos. A completely
unacceptable and un-Australian outcome.
I also believe that the looming threat to this great hobby come from
within
as mach as from outside forces, and there fore suggest that something akin
to intruder watch be applied to monitoring amateur operations as I think
the
authorities response will be that we need to self regulate.

I am offering this observation for discussion and we be keen to see what
others think!

Cheers

Peter VK3YSF

Something tells me that this didn't begin in Southern California, although
we've been accused of it the last thirty years (and then some). The banter
on this NNTP-feed sounds so familiar, I almost feel as though I know
everyone here!!!

HF bands, like any other band when popular (i.e. skip, et al) get crowded,
and hams "electronically-elbow" each other at times. (Yes, people were
more polite once upon a time.)

Best thing to do is stay out of each other's ways -- in Los Angeles, we
have one main (2m) repeater where people "do their thing," and the users
of other repeaters usually lock that frequency (147.435 MHz) out of their
radios, for fear that their ears may fall off. Many HF locals here know
each other by their VHF personas, and it can be downhill from there.

If anyone finds such a repeater or user group objectionable, then consider
not having a toilet. (No loo = poo.) Some hams need playgrounds, and we
should all be glad that they're the

http://www.435.org

HF, unfortunately doesn't have any such groups as of yet to confine their
activities to any particular place. (To my knowledge, anyway. Though the
AMers of yore had some solidarity against the SSBers.)

Repeaters are communities ("virtual communities" of perhaps the oldest
electronic network still in existance), and therefore, have their own
"community standards." And ham radio is also a hobby that we've probably
all taken too seriously at times. 73s, all...

....Dave, N6BHU


On Sat, 11 Mar 2006, Graeme Koch wrote:

I have also heard this same type of behaviour on a Melbourne repeater just 3
days back and it involved 2 full call operators at first, then another
operator joined them and tried to quell the situation but without any luck.
I myself have just joined the amateur ranks and was very disapointed to hear
this sort of thing happening, this is something I would have expected to
hear on the CB bands, but not on amateur radio. I can only hope this was an
isolated incident as I achieved my licence to get away from this type of
activity.

Cheers and 73`s to all.

Graeme VK3FTTG
"Cosmo" wrote in message
u...
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

I find the operations by some licensed amateurs and perhaps a pirate
station
is just appalling. Operators and I use the word loosely, making threats at
each other, whistling over each other and discussing tracking operators
down
to sort them out!
It sounded like the 27Mhz CB band back in the mid seventies.

I can remember when amateurs took pride in their operating practices and
gentlemanly behaviour. If this what it is to become why would anyone be
attracted to the hobby unless perhaps they are an ignorant thugs. It
appears
to me and I know I will be condemned for this, but we seem to have
accepting
lower standards in more ways than we expected.

I believe that simply ignoring these operating practices and these
operators
will allow segments of the bands to become no go ghettos. A completely
unacceptable and un-Australian outcome.
I also believe that the looming threat to this great hobby come from
within
as mach as from outside forces, and there fore suggest that something akin
to intruder watch be applied to monitoring amateur operations as I think
the
authorities response will be that we need to self regulate.

I am offering this observation for discussion and we be keen to see what
others think!

Cheers

Peter VK3YSF

Dave I hate to tell you but we have one in Vancovuer, Canada as well. So
it's not just Southern California that has the problem with fowl mouth
operators. I was making adelivery in Vancouver, British Columbia when I
dialed into one of the local 2 meter repeaters and I couldn't believe my
ears. The language was so fowl that I've removed that frequency from all my
radios. Like yourself I though I was listening to the CB in the truck in
stead of a amateur radio repeater. I'm a truck drive and ruff language is
part of the trade, but not on the air ways and least of not on amateur
radio. I've been involved with amateur radio for 43 years and yes I had a CB
license back when we had to pay for them too. In the old days it was a
required item in a truck and it still is if you do the I-5 corridor from the
Canadian border down and back once a week. Let's face California produce is
a hot commodity in Canada, we don't grow oranges up here, something to do
with the misquitoes the size of humming birds, hi hi.
But like your problem in southern Cal, we have almost the same thing in
souther BC, sadly do say. I remember when this paticular repeater VE7RAG use
to be the one to have good contacts on. For an old truck driver it was a God
sent when I couldn't find the place I had to deliver too, all it took was a
"anyone know where this place is" and my call and I would have people
climbing all over each other to tell you where and how to get to it. But
now, forget it, the polite curtious operators have all but given up on this
repeater. I can only hope they clean it up before 2010 when the Winter
Olympics are on, it would not be a nice picture to paint for our hobby and
for Canada's reputation either.
I remember the days when you didn't dare make a mistake and let a swear word
out over the air. You would get a citation in the mail registered and a
knock on your door by DOC (Canadian version of the FCC) to inspect your
station. Too many budget cuts have turned our hobby into the next CB band(s)
I'm sad to say.

73 all...de ve7agw
Al


"Dave Hildebrand" wrote in message
enga.com...
Something tells me that this didn't begin in Southern California, although
we've been accused of it the last thirty years (and then some). The banter
on this NNTP-feed sounds so familiar, I almost feel as though I know
everyone here!!!

HF bands, like any other band when popular (i.e. skip, et al) get crowded,
and hams "electronically-elbow" each other at times. (Yes, people were
more polite once upon a time.)

Best thing to do is stay out of each other's ways -- in Los Angeles, we
have one main (2m) repeater where people "do their thing," and the users
of other repeaters usually lock that frequency (147.435 MHz) out of their
radios, for fear that their ears may fall off. Many HF locals here know
each other by their VHF personas, and it can be downhill from there.

If anyone finds such a repeater or user group objectionable, then consider
not having a toilet. (No loo = poo.) Some hams need playgrounds, and we
should all be glad that they're the

http://www.435.org

HF, unfortunately doesn't have any such groups as of yet to confine their
activities to any particular place. (To my knowledge, anyway. Though the
AMers of yore had some solidarity against the SSBers.)

Repeaters are communities ("virtual communities" of perhaps the oldest
electronic network still in existance), and therefore, have their own
"community standards." And ham radio is also a hobby that we've probably
all taken too seriously at times. 73s, all...

...Dave, N6BHU


On Sat, 11 Mar 2006, Graeme Koch wrote:

I have also heard this same type of behaviour on a Melbourne repeater
just 3
days back and it involved 2 full call operators at first, then another
operator joined them and tried to quell the situation but without any
luck.
I myself have just joined the amateur ranks and was very disapointed to
hear
this sort of thing happening, this is something I would have expected to
hear on the CB bands, but not on amateur radio. I can only hope this was
an
isolated incident as I achieved my licence to get away from this type of
activity.

Cheers and 73`s to all.

Graeme VK3FTTG
"Cosmo" wrote in message
u...
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

I find the operations by some licensed amateurs and perhaps a pirate
station
is just appalling. Operators and I use the word loosely, making threats
at
each other, whistling over each other and discussing tracking operators
down
to sort them out!
It sounded like the 27Mhz CB band back in the mid seventies.

I can remember when amateurs took pride in their operating practices
and
gentlemanly behaviour. If this what it is to become why would anyone be
attracted to the hobby unless perhaps they are an ignorant thugs. It
appears
to me and I know I will be condemned for this, but we seem to have
accepting
lower standards in more ways than we expected.

I believe that simply ignoring these operating practices and these
operators
will allow segments of the bands to become no go ghettos. A completely
unacceptable and un-Australian outcome.
I also believe that the looming threat to this great hobby come from
within
as mach as from outside forces, and there fore suggest that something
akin
to intruder watch be applied to monitoring amateur operations as I
think
the
authorities response will be that we need to self regulate.

I am offering this observation for discussion and we be keen to see
what
others think!

Cheers

Peter VK3YSF

Big Al wrote:
Dave I hate to tell you but we have one in Vancovuer, Canada as well. So

I remember the days when you didn't dare make a mistake and let a swear word
out over the air. You would get a citation in the mail registered and a
knock on your door by DOC (Canadian version of the FCC) to inspect your
station. Too many budget cuts have turned our hobby into the next CB band(s)
I'm sad to say.

nice to hear that the ARS is chatching up a bit to reality if ever did
cath up that would certainly imporve its chnaces of surviving

73 all...de ve7agw
Al

ass****ed by an old friend wrote:

nice to hear that the ARS is chatching up a bit to reality if ever did
cath up that would certainly imporve its chnaces of surviving

What do you care, all you can get is the training weheel no code tech,
loser.

"Cosmo" wrote in message
u...
I'm currently listening to 7.070Mhz. The time is 19:20EDT

I find the operations by some licensed amateurs and perhaps a pirate
station
is just appalling. Operators and I use the word loosely, making threats at
each other, whistling over each other and discussing tracking operators
down
to sort them out!
It sounded like the 27Mhz CB band back in the mid seventies.

I can remember when amateurs took pride in their operating practices and
gentlemanly behaviour. If this what it is to become why would anyone be
attracted to the hobby unless perhaps they are an ignorant thugs. It
appears
to me and I know I will be condemned for this, but we seem to have
accepting
lower standards in more ways than we expected.

I believe that simply ignoring these operating practices and these
operators
will allow segments of the bands to become no go ghettos. A completely
unacceptable and un-Australian outcome.
I also believe that the looming threat to this great hobby come from
within
as mach as from outside forces, and there fore suggest that something akin
to intruder watch be applied to monitoring amateur operations as I think
the
authorities response will be that we need to self regulate.

I am offering this observation for discussion and we be keen to see what
others think!

Cheers

Peter VK3YSF

Fact. You don't need an amateur license to purchase and illegally use
tranceivers.

Fact. Self regulation without enforceable consequences doesn't work, either
in amateur radio or elsewhere.

Fact. Operating and technical standards have nosedived among many new
amateurs compared to 30 years ago. People don't generally respect and covert
what they haven't worked their tails off for.

Opinion. AR appears to be largely irrelevant to Australian society and its
instrumentalities. Apart from some noticeable occasions when amateurs
assisted in emergencies, it always has been just a hobby pursued by a group
of wierd misfits. (myself included We were geeks before the word was
invented. The difference is that today many in the ranks have no idea that
AR was once the hobby of gentlemen, kings and politicians. It was a level
playing field where one respected someone because they had been through the
same hoops, irregardless of social standing, money or power. But that's all
apparently ancient history.

Now AR is the playground for all. No more amateurs code, it's all F#$% you
mate!
Society has unfortunately changed. It's become personal. Me first, second
and third. Get outta my way and show me the bottom line.It's all about the
money. The revolution appears to have erased the words "respect" and
"tolerance".

Question. There used to be an advisory committee composed of amateurs who
sat down with the ACA and decided what action if any to take against
amateurs who stepped over the line. I wonder if such mechanisms still exist
? If they don't then perhaps they should.

Conclusion. Two years ago I had a very public battle with several amateurs
and would be amateurs who accused me of doing a "chicken little" i.e.
yelling "the sky is falling the sky is falling!".

It may not have fallen. But I would suggest that it may be very close to the
ground.

Cheers
Jim
VK4BBG

On 11/03/06 at 22:43:36 Jim somehow managed to type:
snip


Fact. snip


Here's another fact for you. In days gone by the older, in terms of
time spent in the hobby, amateurs would help those who were new to the
hobby. They'd help with operating procedures as well as the more
technical aspects of the hobby. Today the older amateurs are MUCH more
likely to provide NO help whatsoever.

I well remember when I made my first CQ call on HF as a Z call. Did I
get any meaningful response ? Not bloody likely. All I got was "why
don't you just **** off back to CB where you belong" followed by a
lengthy and foul tirade against limited licence holders being given HF
privileges. Was it a new operator. Nope. It was a long time full call
and one who up until then I'd considered a knowledgeable gentlemen.

My view is that quite a few people who've been in the hobby for a long
while resent newcomers and will do anything to get rid of 'em because
they didn't have to do a written exam or a CW exam. Those people would
do well to remember that they did exactly what todays newcomers do.
They studied for, and passed, the required exams.

This almost constant badmouthing of foundation licencees WITHOUT trying
to educate them is idiotic and demonstrates the true character of the
people doing the badmouthing. Perhaps if these same people were to put
the same amount of effort into helping educate the newcomers we'd all
be a lot better off.


snip

--
Humbug aka VK3ZMF
BE A LOOF! (There has been a recent population explosion of lerts.)

This almost constant badmouthing of foundation licencees WITHOUT trying
to educate them is idiotic and demonstrates the true character of the
people doing the badmouthing. Perhaps if these same people were to put
the same amount of effort into helping educate the newcomers we'd all
be a lot better off.

Nicely put.

In my experience, the very infrequent cases of abuse and **** fights on
amateur bands are more often caused by those who have been licensed for many
many years. They may involve a newcomer, who will undoubtable get the blame
regardless. This was happening when I first took an interest in amateur
radio 25 years ago, and its still the same now.
--
Jack VK2CJC / MM0AXL