"Day Brown" ) writes:

No, I'm thinking about 180 mhz, kinda close to TV channel 8, but...
out here, the nearest TV channel 8 transmitter is 300 miles away.
Besides, TV antennas are being scrapped all the time; everyone is
switching to Dish TV. Out in rural areas, RFI/EMI from ham gear no
longer bothers anyone watching TV.

Besides, seems like there mite be pulse emitters/detectors that work
at this speed. No Carrier wave, no IF. Technically, its *NOT*
"radio". Ordinary tuners would ignore it; it aint AM nor FM. A 12 db
antenna would be about 13' foot long. Awta go 30 miles to an ISP in
some town that stays up serving users on the weekends. I've tried all
three of the local small town ISPs, which have a nasty habit of
crashing on friday nite, and not coming back online til monday
morning.

Of course it's radio. You'll find that if you aren't radiating a signal,
there's no signal and it's not radio. Otherwise, it's radio. And that
means licensing and all the rest.

And there's a good reason wifi is higher in frequency. Because the
bandwidth is there, to allow for multiple signals. Likewise, the shorter
range means losts of points can reuse the same frequency, because the range
is quite limited. And of course, the higher the bandwidth of data, the
more radio space it uses.

Move to a lower frequency, and you'll have less chance to control the signal.
You may find there's too much interference to other users. There may not
be enough radio bandwidth for everyone who wants it.

That you don't realize this would be radio is a good indication, like someone
else suggests, that there is no solution for you because you don't have
the grounding to go anywhere with it.

Michael VE2BVW

On Mar 3, 1:28 pm, (Michael Black) wrote:
"Day Brown" ) writes:
No, I'm thinking about 180 mhz, kinda close to TV channel 8, but...
out here, the nearest TV channel 8 transmitter is 300 miles away.
Besides, TV antennas are being scrapped all the time; everyone is
switching to Dish TV. Out in rural areas, RFI/EMI from ham gear no
longer bothers anyone watching TV.

Besides, seems like there mite be pulse emitters/detectors that work
at this speed. No Carrier wave, no IF. Technically, its *NOT*
"radio". Ordinary tuners would ignore it; it aint AM nor FM. A 12 db
antenna would be about 13' foot long. Awta go 30 miles to an ISP in
some town that stays up serving users on the weekends. I've tried all
three of the local small town ISPs, which have a nasty habit of
crashing on friday nite, and not coming back online til monday
morning.

Of course it's radio. You'll find that if you aren't radiating a signal,
there's no signal and it's not radio. Otherwise, it's radio. And that
means licensing and all the rest.

And there's a good reason wifi is higher in frequency. Because the
bandwidth is there, to allow for multiple signals. Likewise, the shorter
range means losts of points can reuse the same frequency, because the range
is quite limited. And of course, the higher the bandwidth of data, the
more radio space it uses.

Move to a lower frequency, and you'll have less chance to control the signal.
You may find there's too much interference to other users. There may not
be enough radio bandwidth for everyone who wants it.

That you don't realize this would be radio is a good indication, like someone
else suggests, that there is no solution for you because you don't have
the grounding to go anywhere with it.
The whole reason there's a problem is that there aint that many users.
If there was, DSL would be here. If you drive from Little Rock north
thru the Ozarks up US 65 twards Springfield MO, most of the time you
can use your cell phone. But get 20 miles east or west of that string
of transponders, and its dead even if you are on a mountain, never
mind behind a ridgeline, much less down in a creek bottom.

For right now, there arent any other users. And even if I get this
developed and working, there wont be that many. The population density
is low. The biggest town in Van Buren county is Clinton, pop 3000, and
in Searcy county Marshall, 1200. And if you drive from Clinton to
Marshall, the only town is Leslie, pop 627. Moreover, if you drive up
US 65 from Leslie twards Marshall and hit the search button on your
FM, it'll find the Christian fund radio station in Marshall. Hit
'search' again, and it'll find.... the Christian fundy radio station
in Marhsall. There is dead air all over the TV and radio bands out
here that nobody is doing anything with, nor will they ever.

Bring a portable TV up here, and the rabbit ear antenna will find two
TV channels: 4 & 6; and if you come down off the ridgetop, only 6. I
got a 12ft boom Yagi on a 25' mast on the top of a ridge, and all I
can get are 2,4,6,7,11 in watchable condition. 16,20,38,42 are too
snowy to bother with. Anyone who wants to watch much TV or listen to
the radio gets a satellite dish.

I'm only 6 air miles from Clinton, but the ISPs to hook up to are all
in town, down in the valley with a mountain to get over. CB radio at
27mhz can bend down in there, but anything over 100 mhz looks dubious.
Leslie has an ISP up on the side of a ridge, that would be close to
line of sight, but I'd havta clearcut about 14 miles of timber to get
thru unless I get down to 400 mhz which has a wavelength longer than
wet pine needles. Even if I could get over that, the pine grows about
18"/year.

One of the reason folks live out here is we like the woods; there's a
lot of it. National & state forest, game & fish land, transnational
paper loblolly pine plantations and our own private woodlots. None of
the commercially available transceivers can punch thru it all,
especially when its wet. Looks like there's a problem with my
Hughes.net satellite dish when it gets wet too. I called after the
last hard rain, over a week ago, they said they'd get a service rep
right out. I heard from him on thurs finally saying he'd be out next
tues. Its a hundred mile drive, so its not somethign they like to do
often.

I need a piece of equipment I can maintain myself and deal with the
server end when I go to town shopping. Its only been in the last 5
years that Alltel in Searcy county replaced *rotary dial* with
touchtone. Til then, the "Welcome Home" community fire dept had a
party line. If you know what that is. The sheer backwardness of many
rural areas makes low frequency transceivers necessary. I dont blame
them; its damn expensive to bury cable when you need 3000' foot per
customer. When I first got on line, I hadda run a mile of my own
cable.

With 12db tuned yagi on each end, I should be able to cover the
distance with only a few watts. It aint like it'd be walking on
anything anyone else had, and it aint like the FCC is gonna bother
sending agents all the way out here to try to find my setup. They
couldnt even find jerks in major metro areas putting 1000 watts on a
CB channel. We usta hear them walking all over our own neighborhood
rigs in the woods.

All the folks in town have DSL; that leaves only maybe 15,000 spread
out over 1250 sq miles of hills. And of those, with 4/house, less than
4000 PCs that mite possibly want to be online on about 200 acre farms
each. Scattered in all directions. With the directionality of tuned
Yagi, nobody would be interefering with anyone else's signal. Arent
there notch filters that only accept a few megahertz? And pulse
detectors that'd recognize clipped sine wave peaks for zero and the
normal amplitude as one?

Day Brown wrote:
All the folks in town have DSL; that leaves only maybe 15,000 spread
out over 1250 sq miles of hills. And of those, with 4/house, less than
4000 PCs that mite possibly want to be online on about 200 acre farms
each. Scattered in all directions. With the directionality of tuned
Yagi, nobody would be interefering with anyone else's signal. Arent
there notch filters that only accept a few megahertz? And pulse
detectors that'd recognize clipped sine wave peaks for zero and the
normal amplitude as one?

What you really need to do is to convince your local power company to
do what Israel Electric did. A long time ago they figured that BPL was
not worth it, but their right of way was. So they ran a fiber optic network
along with their power lines and use it to monitor and control their
distribituion equipment.

If they ever can get a license to sell Internet access, then they can just use
the fiber optics.

As for the local telephone company just upgrading from dial service, isn't
there a fairly large tax in the U.S. to support providing telephone
service to rural customers? Where did that money go?

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

On Mar 4, 2:44 am, (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote:
What you really need to do is to convince your local power company to
do what Israel Electric did. A long time ago they figured that BPL was
not worth it, but their right of way was. So they ran a fiber optic network
along with their power lines and use it to monitor and control their
distribituion equipment.

If they ever can get a license to sell Internet access, then they can just use
the fiber optics.

As for the local telephone company just upgrading from dial service, isn't
there a fairly large tax in the U.S. to support providing telephone
service to rural customers? Where did that money go?
Alltel used the money to put up the cellular transponders along US 65
& in Harrison, its largest shopping zone.

Compare the population density of Israel with the Ozarks. Lotsa folks
beside me, still have property beyond the grid. That's much of why
folks move out here; they want to get waaaaay back. There are lotsa
places you can go outside at nite, and if you turn out the lites, its
totally pitch black because there are no other lights in any
direction. Lotsa folks own real estate entirely surrounded by
National forest, family farms that were never bought up.

There are simialar regions in the Rockies. I even read about a 'net'
that used packet radio spread across hundreds of miles of mountains.
Canada, Siberia, Australia, and other regions are also way too thinly
populated to afford anyone running cable.

we all know what lightning sounds like. The Titanic had a similar
"spark transmitter", Not that different from the spark coil in a gas
engine. I can see designing a circuit with a resonant tank to produce
a pulse with a wavelength matching a tuned Yagi. No carrier wave. No
frequency or amplitude modulation. And without being hooked up to a
tuned yagi pointed in the correct direction, none of the AM/FM/TV
tuners would pick it up. No IF either. A continuous train of pulses
would look like a carrier wave, but that aint what *data* is.

If, for instance a "1" is a postive pulse, but a "0" negative, and the
sequence of 0100011101010100110.... keeps changing, as it would with
data, then tuners would ignore it. There's no sin wave. Zeners have
been used in surge suppressors rated in nsec and I've seen sin wave
illustrations of the circuitry in psec intervals. Seems like something
mite be done.

Anyone know the data rate on the IR inputs on mthbds? Seems like the
response time on IR diodes is pretty quick too... Feeding the mthbd
with whatever came in an IR detector would islolate it from the
antenna in case there really was a nearby lightning strike.

"Day Brown" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 3, 1:28 pm, (Michael Black) wrote:
"Day Brown" ) writes:
No, I'm thinking about 180 mhz, kinda close to TV channel 8, but...
out here, the nearest TV channel 8 transmitter is 300 miles away.
Besides, TV antennas are being scrapped all the time; everyone is
switching to Dish TV. Out in rural areas, RFI/EMI from ham gear no
longer bothers anyone watching TV.

Besides, seems like there mite be pulse emitters/detectors that work
at this speed. No Carrier wave, no IF. Technically, its *NOT*
"radio". Ordinary tuners would ignore it; it aint AM nor FM. A 12 db
antenna would be about 13' foot long. Awta go 30 miles to an ISP in
some town that stays up serving users on the weekends. I've tried all
three of the local small town ISPs, which have a nasty habit of
crashing on friday nite, and not coming back online til monday
morning.

Of course it's radio. You'll find that if you aren't radiating a signal,
there's no signal and it's not radio. Otherwise, it's radio. And that
means licensing and all the rest.

And there's a good reason wifi is higher in frequency. Because the
bandwidth is there, to allow for multiple signals. Likewise, the shorter
range means losts of points can reuse the same frequency, because the
range
is quite limited. And of course, the higher the bandwidth of data, the
more radio space it uses.

Move to a lower frequency, and you'll have less chance to control the
signal.
You may find there's too much interference to other users. There may not
be enough radio bandwidth for everyone who wants it.

That you don't realize this would be radio is a good indication, like
someone
else suggests, that there is no solution for you because you don't have
the grounding to go anywhere with it.
The whole reason there's a problem is that there aint that many users.
If there was, DSL would be here. If you drive from Little Rock north
thru the Ozarks up US 65 twards Springfield MO, most of the time you
can use your cell phone. But get 20 miles east or west of that string
of transponders, and its dead even if you are on a mountain, never
mind behind a ridgeline, much less down in a creek bottom.

You already answered your question, Christian radio (and TV stations) can be
found throughout your part of the Bible belt. Sadly, these promoters still
don't "get the Internet and rural access" (part of this is due to alignment
'of some' that technology is bad)
IF they did -- you would not have an Internet access problem.