In article ,
(gudmundur) wrote:

Multiple mags don't like to 'lock up' very well in pulse duty and
you surely won't be running any microwave oven mags in cw mode.

Bzzzt, Wrong assumption, would you like to try for what is behind Curtain
#2??????

ALL Consumer Microwave Ovens are using CW mode.... just where did you
get your idea, that they are pulsed from????? Your a Dufus.....

In article ,
says...

In article ,
(gudmundur) wrote:

Multiple mags don't like to 'lock up' very well in pulse duty and
you surely won't be running any microwave oven mags in cw mode.

Bzzzt, Wrong assumption, would you like to try for what is behind Curtain
#2??????

ALL Consumer Microwave Ovens are using CW mode.... just where did you
get your idea, that they are pulsed from????? Your a Dufus.....

Hey dumb ass, they are running from 1/2 wave voltage doubled a.c.
and conduct on only 1/2 of the a.c. cycle. That isn't C.W. by the
definition of C.W. I'd call that a 50% duty cycle output which
is NOT c.w. by intelligent minds.

I didn't indictate that they were being pulsed either, I stated that
'pulsed magnetrons' don't like to lock up correctly. That is why
in extremely high power radar we no longer use multiple mags, and
never really did. Klystrons, klystrodes, and crossed field amplifiers
are the norm here. I'll bet my ETC and four gold service stripes
I forgot more about mags and waveguides than you ever knew.

The original poster seemed clueless and a danger to himself and
others with his experiments. Exactly the kind of guy you should
have as your C.E.O. of your 'New and improved c.w. microwave oven'
company.

Can't help thinking how much you look like your uncle dad!
I don't think you were ever one of my Seaman Recruits. I would
have taught you better. (In your words 'learned you gooder')
Dufus, yup, I been called worse, it kinda bounces right off
my rocker and lands where my crow can crap on it.

gudmundur wrote:

...
The original poster seemed clueless and a danger to himself and
others with his experiments. ...

Heck, with a pair of MW RF shielding glasses, tin foil hat and a copper
jockstrap, I'd fire one of those puppies up, in the open, in a
heartbeat! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:
gudmundur wrote:

...
The original poster seemed clueless and a danger to himself and
others with his experiments. ...

Heck, with a pair of MW RF shielding glasses, tin foil hat and a copper
jockstrap, I'd fire one of those puppies up, in the open, in a
heartbeat! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS

This all reminds me, back in the early 90's I dropped back to college
for some refresher courses. Circulating on the net was a picture of
supposed NY policemen posing with a microwave oven with a horn antenna
attached to the front--looked as if it was constructed of sheet metal.

The article spoke of this "weapon" being used by one neighbor at another
apartment neighbor ...

Anyone remember seeing this particular article? I have search the net
several times and unable to find it. It may have even been a fraud, but
was well done if so.

Anyway, I would get a kick out of seeing it again and making it
available for others to view.

Regards,
JS

In article ,
(gudmundur) wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
(gudmundur) wrote:

Multiple mags don't like to 'lock up' very well in pulse duty and
you surely won't be running any microwave oven mags in cw mode.

Bzzzt, Wrong assumption, would you like to try for what is behind Curtain
#2??????

ALL Consumer Microwave Ovens are using CW mode.... just where did you
get your idea, that they are pulsed from????? Your a Dufus.....

Hey dumb ass, they are running from 1/2 wave voltage doubled a.c.
and conduct on only 1/2 of the a.c. cycle. That isn't C.W. by the
definition of C.W. I'd call that a 50% duty cycle output which
is NOT c.w. by intelligent minds.

I didn't indictate that they were being pulsed either, I stated that
'pulsed magnetrons' don't like to lock up correctly. That is why
in extremely high power radar we no longer use multiple mags, and
never really did. Klystrons, klystrodes, and crossed field amplifiers
are the norm here. I'll bet my ETC and four gold service stripes
I forgot more about mags and waveguides than you ever knew.

The original poster seemed clueless and a danger to himself and
others with his experiments. Exactly the kind of guy you should
have as your C.E.O. of your 'New and improved c.w. microwave oven'
company.

Can't help thinking how much you look like your uncle dad!
I don't think you were ever one of my Seaman Recruits. I would
have taught you better. (In your words 'learned you gooder')
Dufus, yup, I been called worse, it kinda bounces right off
my rocker and lands where my crow can crap on it.

Ok Smart Guy, just tell us ALL about how CW means that once you turn
the RF emitter ON, It must stay ON with 100% duty cycle. Since every
HAM Knows that CW doesn't mean 100% Duty Cycle. Where did you get the
Idea that the OP would be using the Oven Magnitrons Power Supply, as is,
instead of building his own, and running it Full Wave, at 100% Duty
Cycle? He doesn't say one way or the other, so your ASSUMPTION is just
that, another one of your Flab over Beltline Dufus assumptions. Your
explanation is nothing more than Cheap Squid Crap..... that comes from
all that Gold Striping that hangs off your sleeve..... Good thing that
the Navy keeps you locked up, down in the bilge, and not teaching Young
Sculls full of Mush, the basics of High Power RF Generation.

Sonny, you got a lot to learn, best you go back to A School, at NAS
Memphis and try again, to get it right...... It is amazing to "Me"
that the Blue Canoes, can even find their way out of harbor, if your
an example of their ET's, and Radarmen. Fortunately for the rest of us,
it would seem that our Navy has some better folks than you running the
show........ and have for generations........ by the way...you would
lose your bet..... Sonny.....

"gudmundur" wrote in message
...
In article
,
says...

Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

Cheers,
Bert



There isn't any hamband for the magnetrons you are likely to get
your hands on, so it would be illeagal for you to 'beam' anywhere.
Multiple mags don't like to 'lock up' very well in pulse duty and
you surely won't be running any microwave oven mags in cw mode.
How would you verify if your kluge monster was in fact locked
together? Got any ghz range spectrum analyzers handy? Most mags
designed to be used in parallel power production have a built
in injection probe with an SMA or BNC fitting right on the mag.
So you are going to be beaming, and receiving with what? A spark
gap? You don't need, and couldn't handle the power of multiple
magnetrons. You can blow up every solid state device in your workshop
just by tearing the front door off your microwave oven and jumping
out the interlocks. Do you realize the body of the magnetron is
the anode and you will probably electrocute yourself before I can
find a sound reason for anybody but a genuine rf engineer to try
putting two magnetrons in phase lock parallel operation? Far longer
would you live throwing 20 pound propane tanks into a fire and
see how far they 'beam'.

Hi

the inagural issue of Communications Quarterly Magazine ran an
article on phase locking microwave oven magnetrons for ham
use.

Regards

Peter K1ZJH

In article ,
says...

Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

Cheers,
Bert


Kind of a strange side note to the syncing issue,
There are commercial microwave ovens that use 2 magnetrons.
These ovens are usually in food courts of large business
offices or factories. They are 220vac powered of course.
Since a single mag oven produces power only on a small
portion of one half of an a.c. line cycle they did a neat
trick in the twin mag ovens and switched the line connections
to one power transformer. (the ovens have two complete and
separate h.v. supplies) So one mag makes power on the positive
half of the line cycle and the other makes power on the
negative half of the line cycle. Strangely enough I have
run into several units having the same 'in phase' line
connection (by accident or tampering I guess) and they
still work fine. Both mags tightly coupled to the cavity
producing power at the same time on the same half of the
line cycle. Talk about injection locking!!! 2 mags looking
right at each other, and I have not found their service
life to be any shorter but they take longer to pop popcorn.
Probably several reasons for that, but a differance you can
see and measure with a watch. Just by switching the primary
transformer leads back to the 'normal' out of phase condition
popcorn gets done faster.

Many members are correct. I have never done anything like this, and
there is considerable danger in what I am considering. Why would I
want to try such a foolish thing?

The nature of the experiment is to test the feasibility of beaming
power to a Thermoacoustic Engine. The ultimate goal is to power a
climber to compete in the elevator2010 contest where first prize is 1
million bucks. Now I don't expect to power a 100 pound climber with
one 1000 watt magnetron. The oven magnetron was only to test the
concept. For the real thing one would need a Burle S95608E100

Elevator2010: http://www.spaceward.org/elevator2010-pb.html
Burle 100K Magnetron: http://www.burle.com/cgi-bin/byteser...s94608E100.pdf
Thermoacoustic Engine: http://www.io.com/%7Efrg/tac.htm

Cheers,
Bert

On Jan 22, 5:06*pm, (gudmundur) wrote:
In article ,
says...



Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

Cheers,
Bert

*Kind of a strange side note to the syncing issue,
There are commercial microwave ovens that use 2 magnetrons.
These ovens are usually in food courts of large business
offices or factories. They are 220vac powered of course.
Since a single mag oven produces power only on a small
portion of one half of an a.c. line cycle they did a neat
trick in the twin mag ovens and switched the line connections
to one power transformer. (the ovens have two complete and
separate h.v. supplies) So one mag makes power on the positive
half of the line cycle and the other makes power on the
negative half of the line cycle. Strangely enough I have
run into several units having the same 'in phase' line
connection (by accident or tampering I guess) and they
still work fine. Both mags tightly coupled to the cavity
producing power at the same time on the same half of the
line cycle. Talk about injection locking!!! 2 mags looking
right at each other, and I have not found their service
life to be any shorter but they take longer to pop popcorn.
Probably several reasons for that, but a differance you can
see and measure with a watch. Just by switching the primary
transformer leads back to the 'normal' out of phase condition
popcorn gets done faster.

Bert wrote:
Does anyone in the group know anything about magnetrons? I planning to
do some experiments in transmitting microwaves.

I would like to use standard magnetrons from a microwave oven and
believe I can beam further if operated at the same frequency and
with the outputs in phase. I have no idea on how to do this. Please
advise

There seems to be quite a lot of material on the web for this topic
and I suspect some practical solutions. Also while perusing Usenet
archives on another topic I found this list from a french newsgroup
which may be useful if the links haven't succumbed to bit rot
(haven't checked them):

MAGNETRON
Beamed Microwave Power Transmission and its Application to Space -
http://engineer.tamu.edu/tees/csp/wireless/70dec5.htm
Book 11 - http://www.tpub.com/neets/book11/index.htm
Communications & Power Industries, Beverly, MA -
http://www.cpii.com/bmd/magoper1.htm
EA6VQ - Phase locking a microwave oven for EME use -
http://www.qsl.net/ea6vq/oven.html
High Power Converter of Microwaves into DC -
http://jre.cplire.ru/iso/sep99/1/text.html
How To Test The Magnetron Tube -
http://www.gallawa.com/microtech/mag_test.html
Ingolf's Web Presence Links across the net -
http://www.ee.sun.ac.za/ehg/imeier/links.html
MILAX Fuel-free Flight Experiment - http://www.kurasc.kyoto-
u.ac.jp/plasma-group/sps/milax-e.html
Publication IAF 97 - http://www.univ-reunion.fr/~lcks/PubIAF97.htm
Sps Emission - http://helios.univ-reunion.fr/~lcks/spsemiss.htm
W.C. Brown Biodata Page -
http://engineer.tamu.edu/tees/csp/wireless/brownbio.htm
Welcome to The Center for Space Power at Texas A&M University -
http://engineer.tamu.edu/tees/csp/

Regards,

Michael

Michael,

Thank you very much for the info and links.

I am forming up a team to compete this year. If we don't compete this
year we will enter next year. So far I have 3 people from work
(Lockheed Martin) including myself,one from IEEE, and a person that
has competed in previous elevator2010 contests(http://
www.spaceward.org/elevator2010.html). If you know of anyone who is
interested in joining our team (Especially if they know how to design
High Power RF/Microwave Antennas, Dishes, and Horns) please shoot me
an email at:

Thanks,
Bert




There seems to be quite a lot of material on the web for this topic
and I suspect some practical solutions. Also while perusing Usenet
archives on another topic I found this list from a french newsgroup
which may be useful if the links haven't succumbed to bit rot
(haven't checked them):

MAGNETRON
Beamed Microwave Power Transmission and its Application to Space -http://engineer.tamu.edu/tees/csp/wireless/70dec5.htm
Book 11 -http://www.tpub.com/neets/book11/index.htm
Communications & Power Industries, Beverly, MA -http://www.cpii.com/bmd/magoper1.htm
EA6VQ - Phase locking a microwave oven for EME use -http://www.qsl.net/ea6vq/oven.html
High Power Converter of Microwaves into DC -http://jre.cplire.ru/iso/sep99/1/text.html
How To Test The Magnetron Tube -http://www.gallawa.com/microtech/mag_test.html
Ingolf's Web Presence Links across the net -http://www.ee.sun.ac.za/ehg/imeier/links.html
MILAX Fuel-free Flight Experiment -http://www.kurasc.kyoto-
u.ac.jp/plasma-group/sps/milax-e.html
Publication IAF 97 -http://www.univ-reunion.fr/~lcks/PubIAF97.htm
Sps Emission -http://helios.univ-reunion.fr/~lcks/spsemiss.htm
W.C. Brown Biodata Page -http://engineer.tamu.edu/tees/csp/wireless/brownbio.htm
Welcome to The Center for Space Power at Texas A&M University -http://engineer.tamu.edu/tees/csp/

Regards,

Michael