On 4/14/2011 5:18 PM, Scott wrote:
On 4-14-2011 12:51, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

I would respectfully suggest that you are missing the big picture. It's
not just the magazine(s).

Like them or not, the ARRL is the ONLY organization that supports ham
radio on a national level, going to bat for us before Congress and the
FCC.

73,
Joe


Yes, I understand that very well. However, they should have more money
to spend to fight for ham radio if they would let me substitute the 6
issues per year of QEX versus the 12 issues of QST.

N0EDV

I'm basing this opinion on the ARRL budgets that were published in QST
about 20 years ago. They currently (still) claim they are there for
mainly 2 things, protecting our rights and privileges as operators and
adding new operators through education and other methods. Unless they
have gotten rid of all the bits they used to have that they didn't need,
they are still spending between 2 and 5% of the money they collect on
what's supposed to be the main goal.

Where does all the rest go? Read the budgets if they still make them
available.

Charlatans then, are they now? I don't know. And don't care. They
lost me.

tom
K0TAR

In article , news4792
@taring.org says...

I'm basing this opinion on the ARRL budgets that were published in QST
about 20 years ago. They currently (still) claim they are there for
mainly 2 things, protecting our rights and privileges as operators and
adding new operators through education and other methods. Unless they
have gotten rid of all the bits they used to have that they didn't need,
they are still spending between 2 and 5% of the money they collect on
what's supposed to be the main goal.

Where does all the rest go? Read the budgets if they still make them
available.

Charlatans then, are they now? I don't know. And don't care. They
lost me.

tom
K0TAR

Pretty well identical with the UK situation. The RSGB have lost many,
many members for these reasons - including me.

On 4/14/2011 5:18 PM, Scott wrote:
On 4-14-2011 12:51, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

I would respectfully suggest that you are missing the big picture. It's
not just the magazine(s).

Like them or not, the ARRL is the ONLY organization that supports ham
radio on a national level, going to bat for us before Congress and the
FCC.

73,
Joe


Yes, I understand that very well. However, they should have more money
to spend to fight for ham radio if they would let me substitute the 6
issues per year of QEX versus the 12 issues of QST.

N0EDV

On 4/14/2011 9:47 PM, tom wrote:

I'm basing this opinion on the ARRL budgets that were published in QST
about 20 years ago. They currently (still) claim they are there for
mainly 2 things, protecting our rights and privileges as operators and
adding new operators through education and other methods. Unless they
have gotten rid of all the bits they used to have that they didn't need,
they are still spending between 2 and 5% of the money they collect on
what's supposed to be the main goal.

Where does all the rest go? Read the budgets if they still make them
available.

Charlatans then, are they now? I don't know. And don't care. They lost me.

tom
K0TAR

tom, just my personal opinion, but too bad you left the ARRL and too bad
you don't care.

I don't know about your "2 to 5%" figure, but even if it is true, it's
exactly 2 to 5% more than any other organization is spending to go to
bat for ham radio...and IMHO, we NEED (and should support) a national
organization.

73,
Joe

On 4-15-2011 12:27, Joe from Kokomo wrote:


tom, just my personal opinion, but too bad you left the ARRL and too bad
you don't care.

I don't know about your "2 to 5%" figure, but even if it is true, it's
exactly 2 to 5% more than any other organization is spending to go to
bat for ham radio...and IMHO, we NEED (and should support) a national
organization.

73,
Joe

Why? If every ham just wrote to their elected officials (for the cost
of a stamp, or free by email), they would get the message just as well,
if not better than, if they got 1 letter or a personal visit from the
ARRL "lobbyist".

On 4-15-2011 12:27, Joe from Kokomo wrote:


tom, just my personal opinion, but too bad you left the ARRL and too bad
you don't care.

I don't know about your "2 to 5%" figure, but even if it is true, it's
exactly 2 to 5% more than any other organization is spending to go to
bat for ham radio...and IMHO, we NEED (and should support) a national
organization.

73,
Joe

On 4/15/2011 6:41 PM, Scott wrote:

Why? If every ham just wrote to their elected officials (for the cost of
a stamp, or free by email), they would get the message just as well, if
not better than, if they got 1 letter or a personal visit from the ARRL
"lobbyist".

Just my personal opinion, but I believe it is quite naive to think that
if "every ham just wrote". Extremely unlikely...and oh, if not the ARRL,
just who do you think is going to tell the hams to write and what to
write about?

Finally, it's quite naive to think that a national lobbying organization
is not helpful -- just look at how successful the NRA is.

On 04/15/2011 08:31 PM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

On 4-15-2011 12:27, Joe from Kokomo wrote:


tom, just my personal opinion, but too bad you left the ARRL and too bad
you don't care.

I don't know about your "2 to 5%" figure, but even if it is true, it's
exactly 2 to 5% more than any other organization is spending to go to
bat for ham radio...and IMHO, we NEED (and should support) a national
organization.

73,
Joe

On 4/15/2011 6:41 PM, Scott wrote:

Why? If every ham just wrote to their elected officials (for the cost of
a stamp, or free by email), they would get the message just as well, if
not better than, if they got 1 letter or a personal visit from the ARRL
"lobbyist".

Just my personal opinion, but I believe it is quite naive to think that
if "every ham just wrote". Extremely unlikely...and oh, if not the ARRL,
just who do you think is going to tell the hams to write and what to
write about?

Finally, it's quite naive to think that a national lobbying organization
is not helpful -- just look at how successful the NRA is.
All of you are also forgetting that the ARRL (for better or worse) is
now the 'back bone' of the system that handles testing for ham licenses.
Without them it would be almost impossible to find where you can
locally take the test to apply for or upgrade your ham ticket. The ARRL
also publishes most of the test guide material (though I would be
surprised if it wasn't also available on line). Finally they have a
good line of excellent technical publications on radio and electronics
technology.

Also they DO offer membership without QST, for additional members of a
family. Maybe the price of that will give you an idea of what they
think the membership itself is worth.

On 4/15/2011 7:40 PM, Kenneth Scharf wrote:
On 04/15/2011 08:31 PM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

On 4-15-2011 12:27, Joe from Kokomo wrote:


tom, just my personal opinion, but too bad you left the ARRL and too
bad
you don't care.

I don't know about your "2 to 5%" figure, but even if it is true, it's
exactly 2 to 5% more than any other organization is spending to go to
bat for ham radio...and IMHO, we NEED (and should support) a national
organization.

73,
Joe

On 4/15/2011 6:41 PM, Scott wrote:

Why? If every ham just wrote to their elected officials (for the cost of
a stamp, or free by email), they would get the message just as well, if
not better than, if they got 1 letter or a personal visit from the ARRL
"lobbyist".

Just my personal opinion, but I believe it is quite naive to think that
if "every ham just wrote". Extremely unlikely...and oh, if not the ARRL,
just who do you think is going to tell the hams to write and what to
write about?

Finally, it's quite naive to think that a national lobbying organization
is not helpful -- just look at how successful the NRA is.
All of you are also forgetting that the ARRL (for better or worse) is
now the 'back bone' of the system that handles testing for ham licenses.
Without them it would be almost impossible to find where you can locally
take the test to apply for or upgrade your ham ticket. The ARRL also
publishes most of the test guide material (though I would be surprised
if it wasn't also available on line). Finally they have a good line of
excellent technical publications on radio and electronics technology.

Also they DO offer membership without QST, for additional members of a
family. Maybe the price of that will give you an idea of what they think
the membership itself is worth.

Yes, and the blind can get a membership without QST for $8, same as a
family member without QST. That was where I got my number from in
another post in this thread.

Again, I am not suggesting anyone give up their membership in the ARRL.

On 4-16-2011 00:40, Kenneth Scharf wrote:

All of you are also forgetting that the ARRL (for better or worse) is
now the 'back bone' of the system that handles testing for ham licenses.
Without them it would be almost impossible to find where you can locally
take the test to apply for or upgrade your ham ticket.

Don't forget W5YI as a VEC. That's who I'm affiliated with, although
I'm not active with any VEC at present. They list VEs by state, so you
can find a local examiner.
http://www.w5yi.org/exam_locations_ama.php

The ARRL also
publishes most of the test guide material (though I would be surprised
if it wasn't also available on line). Finally they have a good line of
excellent technical publications on radio and electronics technology.

Yes, so I would almost say they are more in the publishing business than
the lobbying business.


Also they DO offer membership without QST, for additional members of a
family. Maybe the price of that will give you an idea of what they think
the membership itself is worth.

So, can I just pay for membership and skip QST?

I believe they are required by the IRS to set a "value" on membership if
they are a non-profit. They are a non-profit, aren't they?

On 04/15/2011 08:21 PM, Scott wrote:
On 4-16-2011 00:40, Kenneth Scharf wrote:

All of you are also forgetting that the ARRL (for better or worse) is
now the 'back bone' of the system that handles testing for ham licenses.
Without them it would be almost impossible to find where you can locally
take the test to apply for or upgrade your ham ticket.

Don't forget W5YI as a VEC. That's who I'm affiliated with, although I'm
not active with any VEC at present. They list VEs by state, so you can
find a local examiner.
http://www.w5yi.org/exam_locations_ama.php



..

On 4-16-2011 00:31, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

On 4/15/2011 6:41 PM, Scott wrote:

Why? If every ham just wrote to their elected officials (for the cost of
a stamp, or free by email), they would get the message just as well, if
not better than, if they got 1 letter or a personal visit from the ARRL
"lobbyist".

Just my personal opinion, but I believe it is quite naive to think that
if "every ham just wrote". Extremely unlikely...and oh, if not the ARRL,
just who do you think is going to tell the hams to write and what to
write about?

Well, if hams won't take any initiative to write their Congressmen, then
they probably don't give two craps enough to really care if we lose
bandwidth. All proposed NPRMs are published in the Federal Register and
a simple search on their website for "FCC" will list them.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/multidb.cgi


Finally, it's quite naive to think that a national lobbying organization
is not helpful -- just look at how successful the NRA is.

So, the ARRL is donating how much to political parties?

The NRA has donated a bit over $18 million from 1989-2010. They were
number 39 of the top 140 donors...
39 National Rifle Assn $18,209,746 17%(To Dems) 82% (To Repubs)
THAT'S probably why they are so successful. Money talks, BS Walks...

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

Didn't see the ARRL in the top 140. Searched and didn't find them on
the list at all. #140 donated about $4.7 million over the same period.

If the ARRL is so successful at lobbying, why did BPL go through even
though they begged members to send more money to fight against it and
lost the battle anyway? Remember when the 13cm band used to be
2300-2450 MHz? I do. Remember when the 1.25M band used to be 220-225
MHz. I do. Remember when a lot of foreign countries had no code
requirement for HF and we did? I do.

I'm not saying they aren't worth something, but why won't they give a
guy a choice about which magazine he wants with his membership?
Probably because QEX doesn't have so many ads as QST and they want the
advertisers to get more bang for their buck (understandably, since they
can charge more for ad space based on the number of magazine "subscribers")