Please then state your facts .. did your landlord share this with you ?

what was the cost ? ,
what amount of hot water does or did the system produce ?
how many years has it produced hot water ?

and how about some simple numbers to back-up your claim it didn't have an
economical payback ...

http://www3.sympatico.ca/hipett/ho****er.htm 3-4 year payback
http://www.solagen.com/water-heating.htm 1-3 year payback
http://www.environment.act.gov.au/Fi...temsreport.pdf 4-6
years (in AU dollars)
http://www.ecs-solar.com/solarho****er_faq.htm 3-4 year based on 600-700
year savings
http://www.solardev.com/hot-water-types.php 4-7 years
http://www.uneptie.org/energy/act/re...cs/thermal.PDF 4 - 14
years (I guess you can pay to much for anything)
http://www.sixriverssolar.com/solar_water_heating.htm 4 -8 years

Every hear of Google ?

most of the above links are a bit outdated , and if today's electric/Natural
gas prices were used , payback for a self installed system would be in the
2-3 year range. (based on a 1600.00 kit , that I having bought and installed
, replacing 600.00 year in electricity.) I bought and installed and used
this system for 2.5 years ... what are your numbers NOSPAM ?


"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" wrote
in message ...


SNIP

My apt. owner put solar water heater panels on the roof more than
ten
years ago, and I don't think they've been cost effective.


SNIP AGAIN

Facts are facts. I simply stated a fact. First off, that the solar
water heater that I have experience with, and that's a *fact*. And
secondly, your followup is not easily readable, misuse of commas, etc.
Needs work. Fact.

Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\" wrote:
"Anthony Matonak" wrote in message

The price penalty is only on items that try to replace or substitute
for meat (and often failing miserably). If you simply purchase items
such as beans, rice, grains, nuts and so forth, as they exist in
nature (or at least, supermarket shelves) then their prices become
very
low.

Last I checked, nuts were more expensive than some meats. And most
people haven't got a clue as to how to eat a meat-free diet and get
proper nutrition. That's the problem.

Well, then don't buy more expensive products and educate yourself
about proper nutrition. It's not like this is especially complex or
the information particularly difficult to find.

Anthony

Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\" wrote:
"Anthony Matonak" wrote in message

The price penalty is only on items that try to replace or substitute
for meat (and often failing miserably). If you simply purchase items
such as beans, rice, grains, nuts and so forth, as they exist in
nature (or at least, supermarket shelves) then their prices become
very
low.

Last I checked, nuts were more expensive than some meats. And most
people haven't got a clue as to how to eat a meat-free diet and get
proper nutrition. That's the problem.

Well, then don't buy more expensive products and educate yourself
about proper nutrition. It's not like this is especially complex or
the information particularly difficult to find.

Anthony

Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size
here,
one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller
ones...
It is on the coast, and it is always windy here...
How big is that thing?
JP
==============================
As I reported in a previous message its rated capacity is only 150 Watts.
6 Blades , 900 mm diameter, max rpm approx 250 , 3 phase generator ( DC
through one and a half standard 25 Amperes bridge rectifiers)
The thing sits on a street lamp post with an extension (approx 8 metres
above ground.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size
here,
one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller
ones...
It is on the coast, and it is always windy here...
How big is that thing?
JP
==============================
As I reported in a previous message its rated capacity is only 150 Watts.
6 Blades , 900 mm diameter, max rpm approx 250 , 3 phase generator ( DC
through one and a half standard 25 Amperes bridge rectifiers)
The thing sits on a street lamp post with an extension (approx 8 metres
above ground.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups"
wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win:

Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home
made shunt controller .
System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy
(and usually sunless) periods
Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here,
one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones...
It is on the coast, and it is always windy here...
How big is that thing?
JP

Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ?

HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators.

...Jim Thompson

It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons
there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down
for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more
cost effective than burning coal.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups"
wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win:

Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home
made shunt controller .
System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy
(and usually sunless) periods
Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here,
one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones...
It is on the coast, and it is always windy here...
How big is that thing?
JP

Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ?

HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators.

...Jim Thompson

It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons
there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down
for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more
cost effective than burning coal.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700) it happened Jim Thompson
wrote in
:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups"
wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win:

Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home
made shunt controller .
System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy
(and usually sunless) periods
Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here,
one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones...
It is on the coast, and it is always windy here...
How big is that thing?
JP

Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ?

HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators.
Only seen pictures of it.
These look the same as the ones we have here.
There are plans to build a whole bunch out in the sea here, but I dunno how
far that is from realization.
JP

On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700) it happened Jim Thompson
wrote in
:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups"
wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win:

Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home
made shunt controller .
System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy
(and usually sunless) periods
Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here,
one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones...
It is on the coast, and it is always windy here...
How big is that thing?
JP

Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ?

HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators.
Only seen pictures of it.
These look the same as the ones we have here.
There are plans to build a whole bunch out in the sea here, but I dunno how
far that is from realization.
JP

On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:11:48 -0700) it happened "Watson A.Name -
\"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote in
:


"Jan Panteltje" wrote in message
...
On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:57:18 GMT) it happened
wrote in :
A guy in Florida quoted 48 years pay back time. I ran
the numbers for my home - over 40 years, and I pay 13
cents per kwh. A 2 kW system costs $15000. Assuming
an average of 8 hours per day of 2kW per hour, that
solar system would give me 16 kWh. I pay 16*.13 or
$2.08 for 16 kWh. Works out to 19+ years for payback,
if you don't count on mortgage payments for the system.
Add that in, and the cost of a $15000 system is
much worse - over 30,000 in a 25 year, 7% mortgage.
You have to take into account that the cost of a kWh from
the grid in 25 years will be a LOT higher too, if there
still is a grid during and after WW3 that is.
JP

I don't blame you for being paranoid about WW3, if you're from Holland.
History has treated those countries poorly during the last WWs. But
then, who cares if there's a WW3? I'm more concerned about the next big
earthquake. Some scientists are predicting a big 6.something earthquake
in the Southern Calif. desert before Sept. I hope so, 'cause some of
these immigrants might consider going back to their point of
origination.
Yea, every place has it problems, here it is the water level, and dikes
-so flooding-.
Those imigrants are a workforce, illegal immigrants behave usually pretty
well to avoid being exposed.
I personally think they have equal rights as the native Americans who stole
the land from the Indiens (spelling?).
Zero rights? Or the right of the strongest.
Was it not Reagan who pardonned most of them in California?
Then they started paying taxes....
Was not California short of cash?
JP