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"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. ...Jim Thompson It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more cost effective than burning coal. That depends to some degree what you consider the "costs" of burning coal are. |
"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. ...Jim Thompson It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more cost effective than burning coal. That depends to some degree what you consider the "costs" of burning coal are. |
"Jan Panteltje" wrote in message ... On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700) it happened Jim Thompson wrote in : On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. Only seen pictures of it. These look the same as the ones we have here. There are plans to build a whole bunch out in the sea here, but I dunno how far that is from realization. There are already a significant number of off-shore windmills in Denmark. Or at least next to Denmark. |
"Jan Panteltje" wrote in message ... On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700) it happened Jim Thompson wrote in : On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. Only seen pictures of it. These look the same as the ones we have here. There are plans to build a whole bunch out in the sea here, but I dunno how far that is from realization. There are already a significant number of off-shore windmills in Denmark. Or at least next to Denmark. |
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:47:54 -0700, the renowned "Richard Henry"
wrote: "Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. ...Jim Thompson It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more cost effective than burning coal. That depends to some degree what you consider the "costs" of burning coal are. I think, other than the pollution, the costs are included in the overall running cost (dead miners, etc. etc.). The pollution is a bit harder to figure, but modern plants are pretty clean. I live close to a big thermal plant and the left-wing newspapers have been running pictures of the stacks (usually with evil lighting) saying that "smoke" is rising blah blah. They've dug up old pictures with all 4 stacks running, and it's usually running at 25%; never more than 50%. Of course it's mostly steam and some CO2- on a clear day you can see nothing in the air discoloring it, just the refraction from the heat and steam trails that rapidly dissipate. The stupid new gov't has been making noises about closing the thermal plants *AND* the nuclear plants- I don't know where they think the power would come from (maybe we can buy it all and export the problem to less "responsible" people). Bleh. Even with conservation measures and some deindustrialization, population is growing at a healthy rate, and so is consumption. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:47:54 -0700, the renowned "Richard Henry"
wrote: "Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. ...Jim Thompson It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more cost effective than burning coal. That depends to some degree what you consider the "costs" of burning coal are. I think, other than the pollution, the costs are included in the overall running cost (dead miners, etc. etc.). The pollution is a bit harder to figure, but modern plants are pretty clean. I live close to a big thermal plant and the left-wing newspapers have been running pictures of the stacks (usually with evil lighting) saying that "smoke" is rising blah blah. They've dug up old pictures with all 4 stacks running, and it's usually running at 25%; never more than 50%. Of course it's mostly steam and some CO2- on a clear day you can see nothing in the air discoloring it, just the refraction from the heat and steam trails that rapidly dissipate. The stupid new gov't has been making noises about closing the thermal plants *AND* the nuclear plants- I don't know where they think the power would come from (maybe we can buy it all and export the problem to less "responsible" people). Bleh. Even with conservation measures and some deindustrialization, population is growing at a healthy rate, and so is consumption. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
Last month I went to Palm springs for the Faire, and there was no
noticeable difference in the numbers of windmills in operation. ===================== Having seen these machines near Palm Springs ,they seem to be rather small and of an older design. Modern machines are much bigger (up to 2 MW rated capacity) and more reliable. In the Netherlands they are now planning a number of 2MW machines offshore ,approx 8 kms off the coast placed on seabed based stuctures. Their designers are focussing on minimum maintenance ( only once every 3 years) . To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage / maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land ,especially in the northern provinces. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
Last month I went to Palm springs for the Faire, and there was no
noticeable difference in the numbers of windmills in operation. ===================== Having seen these machines near Palm Springs ,they seem to be rather small and of an older design. Modern machines are much bigger (up to 2 MW rated capacity) and more reliable. In the Netherlands they are now planning a number of 2MW machines offshore ,approx 8 kms off the coast placed on seabed based stuctures. Their designers are focussing on minimum maintenance ( only once every 3 years) . To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage / maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land ,especially in the northern provinces. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
KR Williams wrote:
In article , says... On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:57:18 GMT) it happened wrote in : ....snip... Add that in, and the cost of a $15000 system is much worse - over 30,000 in a 25 year, 7% mortgage. You have to take into account that the cost of a kWh from the grid in 25 years will be a LOT higher too, if there still is a grid during and after WW3 that is. That's silly economics. I do not have to take into account the cost of electricity in 25 years. I can wait. Solar cells are becoming cheaper too. When the cost of the solar cell is less than the cost of power from the grid I can switch, saving all of the negative amortization inbetween, and have a *new* system in 25 years, just as you're in need of replacing yours. ;-) My guess though, is that solar cells for the individual will never become cheaper than power from the grid, since the power company has access to the same technology and a *lot* better financing possibilities. ...and they don't have to have the pay- back in my lifetime. They have access to the tech, BUT, they also have to maintain the distribution system. Since my electricity has been unbundled, roughly half of my cost per Kwh goes to the distribution co., not the producer. Ice storms, drunk drivers, blown line fuses all cost money. As well as the personel and associated benefits packages, transportation costs of materials, etc. for maintaining the lines. All this is avoided cost on home solar. And... www.solaraccess.com/news/story?storyid=6482 talking about a new discovery: "A solar cell with the simplest possible physical structure could achieve 50 percent efficiency or better, far higher than any yet demonstrated in the laboratory." It isn't cost effective for most of us yet, but the tipping point is coming. -- Jerry wa2rkn no email @ present |
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