Metal film resistors?
are metal film resistors wirewound or not? I've been trying to find this one
out. Someone who I know says they're not so are suitable for RF but Maplin catalog seems to say they are. someone please help! dr. x --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 22/11/2004 |
They're not wirewound. They consist of a thin film of metal deposited on
a ceramic tube, which is helically cut to leave a conductor in a spiral pattern. A wirewound resistor has a lot of inductance because it's made of many turns of wire. A metal film resistor has a very small amount of inductance by comparison -- so little that it can be ignored for most purposes. Roy Lewallen, W7EL James Bond wrote: are metal film resistors wirewound or not? I've been trying to find this one out. Someone who I know says they're not so are suitable for RF but Maplin catalog seems to say they are. someone please help! dr. x |
James Bond wrote:
are metal film resistors wirewound or not? I've been trying to find this one out. Someone who I know says they're not so are suitable for RF but Maplin catalog seems to say they are. someone please help! dr. x Strictly speaking they are not "wire wound", but some are constructed with the film "wound" around a substrate, thus having a lot of inductance. If you dont't have the makers specs to tell you, the choices are to measure the inductance or to remove the coating and see what's underneath. -- Jim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. |
are metal film resistors wirewound or not? I've been trying to find this one
out. Someone who I know says they're not so are suitable for RF but Maplin catalog seems to say they are. Strictly speaking they are not "wire wound", but some are constructed with the film "wound" around a substrate, thus having a lot of inductance. If you dont't have the makers specs to tell you, the choices are to measure the inductance or to remove the coating and see what's underneath. Several manufacturers (Caddock and some of the Vishay divisions) make metal-film resistors which are advertised as having about the same amount of inductance as a straight wire the same length as the resistor body. I believe that these have the film cut into a back-and-forth serpentine meander pattern, rather than a spiral. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
James Bond wrote:
are metal film resistors wirewound or not? I've been trying to find this one out. Someone who I know says they're not so are suitable for RF but Maplin catalog seems to say they are. They can be suitable for some RF applications. If you are thinking of the wire-ended ones up to 2-3W, they are a flat spiral of just a few turns of the metal film, on a ceramic core. Plugging the number of turns, diameter and length into the usual formula suggests inductances of less than 0.1uH, even for the larger ones. This means they have inductive reactances rising up to about 10 ohms at 30MHz. For example, if you wanted to use say a 47 ohm resistor as a dummy load, the SWR would be quite reasonable up to 30MHz. However, the inductance of the higher-value resistors goes up much less rapidly then the resistance does (they use a thinner film of a more resistive material, but not a lot more turns). The inductance of a 470R metal film resistor is not a lot higher than that of a 47R. So if you were to use ten 470R resistors in parallel to make your dummy load, the inductive reactance would be divided by 10 and the SWR would be much better. I have used multiple-paralleled 2W metal film resistors as high as 50MHz, and up to144MHz in situations where the inductance could be tuned out. The ones I tested can also be overloaded to red heat for several seconds without significantly changing resistance when cold - unlike the cheaper carbon film resistors which burn (as carbon does), or wire-wound resistors which generally develop a hot-spot and burn out. -- 73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek |
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:57:59 +0000, Ian White, G3SEK wrote:
Plugging the number of turns, diameter and length into the usual formula suggests inductances of less than 0.1uH, even for the larger ones. This means they have inductive reactances rising up to about 10 ohms at 30MHz. Ian, I've just measured a couple of resistors bought as spares for the FL-2100Z, 33 ohm 3W metal film used as a grid stopper, and 22 ohm 3W metal oxide used on the anode, again as a suppressor, with a coil wound round it (both of the originals were carbon). The metal film 33R measures 6.5uH and the oxide 22R measures 4.5uH on the aade.com meter. Both values (if the readings are correct) would represent a high ratio of X to R at HF frequencies... I have quite a surplus of them, so if you wish I can send one of each in the mail for you to check on your VNA. -- Duncan Munro http://www.duncanamps.com/ |
I've used "Flame Proof" resisters to build signal splitters, the
outputs were within .1 db of a commercial unit (made by Suhner) @ 850 Mhz. That ain't bad :). Howard. On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:59:16 +0000 (UTC), "James Bond" wrote: are metal film resistors wirewound or not? I've been trying to find this one out. Someone who I know says they're not so are suitable for RF but Maplin catalog seems to say they are. someone please help! dr. x --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release Date: 22/11/2004 |
Duncan Munro wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:57:59 +0000, Ian White, G3SEK wrote: Plugging the number of turns, diameter and length into the usual formula suggests inductances of less than 0.1uH, even for the larger ones. This means they have inductive reactances rising up to about 10 ohms at 30MHz. Ian, I've just measured a couple of resistors bought as spares for the FL-2100Z, 33 ohm 3W metal film used as a grid stopper, and 22 ohm 3W metal oxide used on the anode, again as a suppressor, with a coil wound round it (both of the originals were carbon). The metal film 33R measures 6.5uH and the oxide 22R measures 4.5uH on the aade.com meter. Both values (if the readings are correct) would represent a high ratio of X to R at HF frequencies... I have quite a surplus of them, so if you wish I can send one of each in the mail for you to check on your VNA. Those values seem surprisingly high, so yes, please do and I will measure them. Based on the standard inductance formula (and there seems no reason why that shouldn't apply in this case) it would seem to require very large numbers of turns to achieve 1uH. My posting was based on the ones I scraped the paint off in pre-VNA days, so it would be useful to collect more data on typical 'coil' dimensions and numbers of turns, together with the actual effective inductances. -- 73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek |
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 07:32:27 +0000, "Ian White, G3SEK"
wrote: Those values seem surprisingly high, so yes, please do and I will measure them. Please post the results here when you've done so, Ian. I for one would also be interested. -- "What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793. |
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:59:16 +0000 (UTC) "James Bond"
wrote: are metal film resistors wirewound or not? I've been trying to find this one out. Someone who I know says they're not so are suitable for RF but Maplin catalog seems to say they are. They are not WIREwound, but the resistive element IS usually a helical film that is a layer on a ceramic body. As someone else mentioned, there are some types which are serpentine rather than helical, but these are always special and sold as such. Film resistors generally have fewer turns in their helix than wirewounds, so they will have more inductance than carbon or ceramic bulk resistors but less than wire wound resistors. - ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney Madison, WI 53711 USA ----------------------------------------------- |
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