On May 16, 7:45 pm, Steve Bonine wrote:
RDWeaver wrote:
On May 16, 2:50 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:

So I did what any other nut would have done, I bought a small electric
chainsaw. for something like 39 dollars.

It's what the pro's use, on a different scale. Friend of mine does
fiber optic provisioning, and he's bringing on of these to my station
to plant coax.

See here -----http://www.ditchwitch.com/dwcom/Prod...ductView/10588

Well . . . there's a bit of difference between a ditch witch, which is
made for digging ditches and offers the operator reasonable protection
from flying debris, and using a chain saw that is designed for cutting wood.


Some of the ideas presented represent some of the most labor
intensive, dangerous methods I've run across.

Cut some #12 or #14 galvanized steel wire into six or eight inch
lengths. Fold them in half to form a hairpin. Lay out your radial
wires along the surface of your yard. Use a steel hairpin every three
or four feet to hold the wire to the earth. Within several weeks of
the grass growing and cutting cycle, the radials will disappear
beneath the surface of the grass, never to be seen again. I'm now up
to over 6,000 feet of vinyl insulated #12 and #14 radials for my 160m
inverted L using this method. There are no whirring metallic objects,
no chain saws. There's no digging and very little effort.

Dave K8MN

wrote:

I'm now up
to over 6,000 feet of vinyl insulated #12 and #14 radials for my 160m
inverted L using this method. There are no whirring metallic objects,
no chain saws. There's no digging and very little effort.

When I read what Dave had written, it struck me that it's an
illustration of a trait that I have observed often in our hobby: It has
to be done *exactly* the right way. A 1.2:1 SWR isn't good enough.
Radials have to be *buried* since obviously they won't be as effective
if they're just laid on the ground. Yeah, several hours of back
breaking work and possibly risking your life might gain you 1 db that no
one will be able to detect . . . or maybe not even that. We need to be
a bit more forgiving of non-optimum solutions and do a bit more
cost/benefit analysis on the work it takes to convert them to optimum
solutions.

An illustration comes to mind. When I was working in Mississippi in the
Katrina aftermath, the Red Cross asked the hams to provide their feeding
vehicles (ERVs) with communications while they were on station. ["ERV"
stands for "emergency response vehicle".] An HT was insufficient to hit
the local repeater system. We had mobile 2m tranceivers to put one in
each ERV, but the mag mount antennas were useless because ERVs aren't
magnetic (fiberglass and aluminium). When I suggested using the
existing antenna that was already mounted on the side of the ERV for the
Red Cross radio, the response was "Oh, no, we can't do that -- it won't
match for 2 meters." And sure enough, it didn't . . . but it was plenty
good enough to do the job, and modern transmitter circuity is perfectly
capable of coping with a huge mismatch.

What I'm trying to say is that "good enough" works fine in many cases,
and the incremental effort to move to "perfect" often isn't justified.

73, Steve KB9X

Steve Bonine wrote

When I read what Dave had written, it struck me that it's
an illustration of a trait that I have observed often in our
hobby: It has to be done *exactly* the right way. A 1.2:1
SWR isn't good enough. Radials have to be *buried* since
obviously they won't be as effective if they're just laid on the
ground. Yeah, several hours of back breaking work and
possibly risking your life might gain you 1 db that no
one will be able to detect . . . or maybe not even that.
We need to be a bit more forgiving of non-optimum solutions
and do a bit more cost/benefit analysis on the work it takes
to convert them to optimum solutions.

I've a different view on several points.

I didn't see Dave's message as "has to be done *exactly* right", but
simply a different way of securing the radials, WITHOUT "have to be
*buried*.

But given the amount of copper he's laid down, obviously he's intent
on getting the best performance he can muster on 160. Nothing wrong
with that, and that 1 db may be just the amount needed to snag that
last Z for WAZ Top Band, or break through the east coast curtain to
log a multiplier in the Stu Perry Challenge.

Your anecdote about the Red Cross van is well taken, but I think it
illustrates a point.

There are times when we readily accept "get 'er done" as "good
enough", such as during a disaster like Katrina, or for a temporary
setup like Field Day, or a demonstration station at the local high
school.

But when we engineer our home station (especially if we're serious
about DXing or contesting) we go to all reasonable (and yes, even
sometimes unreasonable) lengths to get the best performance we can
squeeze out. A couple db better front-to-back, another microvolt to
the receiver, more KC between the 2:1 spots on the VSWR curve, an
easier way to reduce ground losses under a Battle Creek Special, or a
better ergonomic chair for those long contests. In that regard, many
of us have no "forgiveness of non-optimum".

73, RDW

On Wed, 16 May 2007 10:50:07 EDT, Michael Coslo wrote:

I found many of the suggested ways of laying radials either painful
from crouching over the work, too mind numbingly slow, or unsatisfactory
in general - such as laying the radials on the ground and not burying.
The XYL particularly hated the last one.

Even using green wire?
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

Phil Kane wrote:
On Wed, 16 May 2007 10:50:07 EDT, Michael Coslo wrote:

I found many of the suggested ways of laying radials either painful
from crouching over the work, too mind numbingly slow, or unsatisfactory
in general - such as laying the radials on the ground and not burying.
The XYL particularly hated the last one.

Even using green wire?


She gets very concerned that she will run over them when she mows the
lawn. I used lawn staples, and they were never run over, but the fear
was always there. Now everything including the coax gets buried.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -