On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:35:33 -0500, Phil Kane wrote:


Really, Mike! The station is IDed with the station licensee's call
sign. The only time that the call sign of the operator is used is if
the privileges of the op are greater than the privileges of the station
licensee and the op is exercising those privileges. This is independen
t
of who owns the radio.

That's the hardest thing that I have to teach to ops using our club
facilities and fixed facilities at ARES/RACES served agencies which hol
d
individual call signs.

Hi Phil,

I know what you are saying, but there is a world of difference between
the seemingly clear rule and the reality. Our club has 3 call signs.
Which do I use? I've loaned equipment to the club to use for field day.
Must we operate under my call sign, and don't forget the other equipment
is the club's, or might be other equipment loans.

Some times there could be so much discussion about what the "proper" call

sign is to use that people might just pack up and go home.


-73 de Mike N3LI -

On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:23:05 EST, Mike Coslo
wrote:

I know what you are saying, but there is a world of difference between
the seemingly clear rule and the reality. Our club has 3 call signs.
Which do I use?

Are you sure that all three have the same club name? The station
trustee is responsible for telling the operator(s) what the correct
club call sign is.

Our club has a club call sign covering all of our activities, and
there is a sub-group of contesters in the club who have obtained a
different club call sign - with a different licensee - for contests
that they participate in separate from the club station.

I've loaned equipment to the club to use for field day.
Must we operate under my call sign, and don't forget the other equipment
is the club's, or might be other equipment loans.

No. Unless you "declare" that it is your personal station. The call
sign to be used is not tied to the ownership of the hardware.

You don't want to be stuck with the violations of someone else.
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

Phil Kane wrote in
news
On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:23:05 EST, Mike Coslo
wrote:

I know what you are saying, but there is a world of difference between
the seemingly clear rule and the reality. Our club has 3 call signs.
Which do I use?

Are you sure that all three have the same club name? The station
trustee is responsible for telling the operator(s) what the correct
club call sign is.

Each has a different Trustee.



Our club has a club call sign covering all of our activities, and
there is a sub-group of contesters in the club who have obtained a
different club call sign - with a different licensee - for contests
that they participate in separate from the club station.

I've loaned equipment to the club to use for field day.
Must we operate under my call sign, and don't forget the other
equipment is the club's, or might be other equipment loans.

No. Unless you "declare" that it is your personal station. The call
sign to be used is not tied to the ownership of the hardware.

And there is an important part of the equation. Is there an F.C.C.
form in which the "station" is declared as belonging to which call
sign? If I borrow a friend's HT to call back somone who calls me, I
think I am technically in violation of what station is what and
who's station.

You don't want to be stuck with the violations of someone else.

Indeed. I think that this is one of those gray areas in which we some
times find our selves.

It reminds me of a drawn out discussion once about "Is it illegal to use
an antenna analyzer?"

After a whole lot of cogitation, the consensus was that it was indeed
illegal to use one without ID'ing, but that the F.C.C. enforcement
officer would be sorely tempted to box your ears if you turned someone
in for using an antenna analyzer.... 8^)

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:22:21 EST, Mike Coslo
wrote:

And there is an important part of the equation. Is there an F.C.C.
form in which the "station" is declared as belonging to which call
sign? If I borrow a friend's HT to call back somone who calls me, I
think I am technically in violation of what station is what and
who's station.

No violation. That situation can be viewed either of two ways,
both equally valid and both equally legal - you are borrowing hardware
for YOUR station and use your call sign, or you are operating HIS
station and use his call sign.

You don't want to be stuck with the violations of someone else.

Indeed. I think that this is one of those gray areas in which we some
times find our selves.

Not grey at all to us comm lawyers.... ggg

It reminds me of a drawn out discussion once about "Is it illegal to use
an antenna analyzer?"

After a whole lot of cogitation, the consensus was that it was indeed
illegal to use one without ID'ing,

Depends on the power level used by the Analyzer. It may be operated
as a Part 15 device - no license, no ID - if it meets those
requirements.
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

"Phil Kane" wrote

It reminds me of a drawn out discussion once about "Is it illegal to use
an antenna analyzer?"

After a whole lot of cogitation, the consensus was that it was indeed
illegal to use one without ID'ing,

Depends on the power level used by the Analyzer. It may be operated
as a Part 15 device - no license, no ID - if it meets those
requirements.

Is the power limit under Part 15 still 100 mw?

Howard N7SO (too lazy to look it up)

Howard Lester wrote:
"Phil Kane" wrote

It reminds me of a drawn out discussion once about "Is it illegal to use
an antenna analyzer?"

After a whole lot of cogitation, the consensus was that it was indeed
illegal to use one without ID'ing,

Depends on the power level used by the Analyzer. It may be operated
as a Part 15 device - no license, no ID - if it meets those
requirements.

Is the power limit under Part 15 still 100 mw?

Howard N7SO (too lazy to look it up)


It is unless you are operating BPL then the sky appears to be the limit.

Dave WD9BDZ

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:05:50 EST, "Howard Lester"
wrote:

Depends on the power level used by the Analyzer. It may be operated
as a Part 15 device - no license, no ID - if it meets those
requirements.

Is the power limit under Part 15 still 100 mw?

Howard N7SO (too lazy to look it up)

You didn't miss anything by not trying to look it up. The Commish' in
its infinite wisdom made the Part 15 "intentional radiator" and
"incidental radiator" requirements very complicated several years ago,
with no real thought given to analog laboratory measuring equipment
such as TDRs, signal generators, and Antenna Analyzers.

The old "100 mw input" limits apply only to certain types of devices,
and in general "intentional radiators" have to be certified for
compliance with specified antenna arrangements.

Stuff like that keeps private-sector "FCC Certification Test
Facilities" in business.
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

In article ,
Phil Kane wrote:

You didn't miss anything by not trying to look it up. The Commish' in
its infinite wisdom made the Part 15 "intentional radiator" and
"incidental radiator" requirements very complicated several years ago,
with no real thought given to analog laboratory measuring equipment
such as TDRs, signal generators, and Antenna Analyzers.

The old "100 mw input" limits apply only to certain types of devices,
and in general "intentional radiators" have to be certified for
compliance with specified antenna arrangements.

Stuff like that keeps private-sector "FCC Certification Test
Facilities" in business.

Phil,

In practice, is there anything that can be done about uncertified (and
very probably not-technically-compliant) intentional radiators?

Last year, after I bought a new car, I found that the remote-control
keyfob would not work reliably (or at all) when the car was parked in
a local mall's parking lot. When I sniffed around a bit with my HT, I
found that there was a strong, repetitive signal on 433.920 MHz. I
DF'ed to a local restaurant. The waiters at the restaurant use
hand-held remote terminals, which transmit the order (by item number,
apparently) back to a base in the kitchen where it's printed out by
the cooks. This makes for fast and reliable service, but the base is
apparently sending out a heartbeat transmission several times per
second. The signal is strong enough to swamp other devices on 433.920
MHz for around a hundred yards. I can pick it up on my car rig (in
SSB mode) for a couple of blocks in some directions.

One evening when I ate there I expressed curiosity and took a look at
one of the handheld terminals. It has a model-number sticker on the
bottom but there's no hint of a Part 15 registration number. I wrote
down the manufacturer name, found their website, and also dug through
the FCC Part 15 authorization database. I can't find any evidence
that this device (which is imported) was ever certified under Part 15.
I suspect that it's noncertified, and may have been cranked up to a
power level which is beyond the Part 15 limits (and certainly seems
excessive for what it's doing).

I passed the info along to my local ARRL OO, who contacted some lab
guys at the ARRL... they'd never heard of this particular problem. As
far as I know they didn't choose to follow up on the matter.

Since this isn't actually interfering with any licensed ham
transmission I'm trying to make (but only with other Part 15 devices)
I didn't feel that I really have standing to push the matter through
the ARRL/OO or file a formal complaint with the FCC.

My gut feeling at this point is that trying to get the FCC to take
this issue up with the manufacturer, importer, and/or customer
(restaurant) is probably a waste of effort... can you hold out any
hope that there's a way of dealing with the problem?

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"Phil Kane" wrote

The old "100 mw input" limits apply only to certain types of devices,
and in general "intentional radiators" have to be certified for
compliance with specified antenna arrangements.

The device in question was a Heathkit CB walkie-talkie with a not so super
regenerative receiver that I built in 1963. I suppose that radio was an
"intentional radiator," but its intentions were pretty weak.... Oh, well, it
led to a ham ticket.

Howard

In article

@corp.supernews.com,
"Howard Lester" wrote:

"Phil Kane" wrote

It reminds me of a drawn out discussion once about "Is it illegal to use
an antenna analyzer?"

After a whole lot of cogitation, the consensus was that it was indeed
illegal to use one without ID'ing,

Depends on the power level used by the Analyzer. It may be operated
as a Part 15 device - no license, no ID - if it meets those
requirements.

Is the power limit under Part 15 still 100 mw?

Howard N7SO (too lazy to look it up)

There a pile of definitions that define what the Maximum RF can be
for a Part 15 device these days. Frequency is one, Intentional, or
Unintentional radiation is another, Carrier, Spread Spectrum, etc.
It isn't for the Faint at Heart, to figure it out.

Bruce in alaska

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply