In ,
typed, for some strange, unexplained reason:
: On May 7, 12:03�am, "Ivor Jones" wrote:
:
: what are the thoughts on my original point, that of the differences
: in attitude of the authorities in the US and UK about protection
: from
: interference from commercial operators using frequencies
: within the
: amateur bands..? It seems to me, unless I've misunderstood,
: that in the US
: you can still claim a certain degree of protection from other users,
: whereas here we can't.
:
: The following is just an informal observation...
:
: Here in the USA, we have two regulatory agencies for radio: FCC, which
: does non-government radio, and NTIA, which does government/military
: radio. NTIA trumps FCC, of course. The radar-interference case
: mentioned elsewhere in this thread clearly shows who has priority on
: the band in question.
:
: But your question is about *commercial* (nongovernment) users/
: intruders into the amateur bands, where such use is not part of the
: regulations.
:
: In theory, those intruders are breaking the law and should be removed
: by the FCC. In practice, the FCC is complaint-driven, which means
: amateurs must identify the intruder and complain to the FCC. Helping
: with such complaints is one of the major functions of the ARRL and its
: legal department.
:
: But simply complaining to FCC does not mean the problem will be
: solved, because FCC's resources are very limited. The motorsports
: story referred to required a lot of work on the part of the ARRL and
: the amateurs involved.
:
: 73 de Jim, N2EY

Ah, thanks. However, over here we do have "legal" intrusions into some of
the amateur bands, most are in the microwave region, notably 10GHz, where
we lost a sizeable chunk a while back.

The main one though is 431-432 MHz which is not available for use within
100km of Charing Cross (central London) and also for some distance around
the military radar installation at Fylingdales in Yorkshire. In the London
area I believe it's allocated to taxis of all things..! There isn't a lot
of amateur activity in that segment, I think some wide-split repeaters may
have inputs or outputs there but generally it's a low-occupancy segment of
the band, so all in all it's not a major hassle.

It's the principle of the thing that annoys me, though. Even where we are
primary users, such as 2m, we can claim *no* protection from interference,
even if the cause of said interference shouldn't be there.

73 Ivor G6URP

On Wed, 7 May 2008 13:48:04 EDT, "Ivor Jones"
wrote:

It's the principle of the thing that annoys me, though. Even where we are
primary users, such as 2m, we can claim *no* protection from interference,
even if the cause of said interference shouldn't be there.

Things must have changed since my initial training in international
radio regulation in the mid-1960s where the British Post Office (the
forerunner of the RA) was held up as a model of "we'll lock you up if
you don't have a licence to operate there" - and the French were
pointed out as an example of "the ordinary citizen needs a radio as
much as he needs a machine gun".....hams were a grudging exception,
and of course when cellphones became available, everyone got one
because they knew that cellphones were not radios, right? g

Then again, the FCC in the US - where I ultimately spent most of my
professional career - was also very involved in "catching bad guys".
The epidemic of unlawful CB operations of the 1970s and 80s - for
which most of the world's governments never forgave the US - and an
unfortunate shift in regard to what the government's obligations were
- changed all that.

Notwithstanding the historical precedents of military-civilian sharing
of frequency bands, granting commercial interests licenses to operate
in the amateur bands is basic bad regulatory policy. All of us
old-time regulation professionals knew that as an article of faith.
The new crop is guided more by the buck (or the Euro, or the quid)
than by what good regulatory policy is.

As far as the military goes, I learned early in the game that de
facto the military of any country can operate on any frequency that it
so desires if (1) it doesn't interfere with anything operating in that
country and it (2) doesn't identify. If it wants to play the
gentleman game the country will notify the operation to the ITU
Radiocommunications Bureau (ITU-R) which now does what the
International Frequency Registration Bureau (IFRB) did before ITU
reorganization. Whether the information is accurate or not is an
exercise left for the listener.
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

In news Phil Kane typed, for some strange,
unexplained reason:
: On Wed, 7 May 2008 13:48:04 EDT, "Ivor Jones"
: wrote:
:
: It's the principle of the thing that annoys me, though. Even where
: we are primary users, such as 2m, we can claim *no* protection from
: interference, even if the cause of said interference shouldn't be
: there.
:
: Things must have changed since my initial training in international
: radio regulation in the mid-1960s where the British Post Office (the
: forerunner of the RA) was held up as a model of "we'll lock you up if
: you don't have a licence to operate there" - and the French were
: pointed out as an example of "the ordinary citizen needs a radio as
: much as he needs a machine gun".....hams were a grudging exception,
: and of course when cellphones became available, everyone got one
: because they knew that cellphones were not radios, right? g

Indeed. My friend Colin G3USA (great callsign, eh..!) tells me that in his
early days on air in the 60's an amateur could expect to be regularly
visited by an officer of the Radio Investigation Service who would check
your logbook and that you knew how to use a wavemeter for example.

In my 25 years of being licensed I've never been inspected once.

73 Ivor G6URP

Ah, thanks. However, over here we do have "legal" intrusions into some of
the amateur bands, most are in the microwave region, notably 10GHz, where
we lost a sizeable chunk a while back.

The main one though is 431-432 MHz which is not available for use within
100km of Charing Cross (central London) and also for some distance around
the military radar installation at Fylingdales in Yorkshire. In the London
area I believe it's allocated to taxis of all things..! There isn't a lot
of amateur activity in that segment, I think some wide-split repeaters may
have inputs or outputs there but generally it's a low-occupancy segment of
the band, so all in all it's not a major hassle.

It's the principle of the thing that annoys me, though. Even where we are
primary users, such as 2m, we can claim *no* protection from interference,
even if the cause of said interference shouldn't be there.

73 Ivor G6URP

The main problem in the UK is not the commercial use of 431-432 in the
London area, rather the proliferation of licence exempt low power devices.
Everything from key fobs to weather stations and tower crane anti-collision
systems. They are popping up quite legally all over 70cms.

Even one 70cms repeater was ordered off the air because it was stopping
people from remotely opening their car doors in a nearby carpark!

The UK has a Pave Paws derivative at Fylingdales at that caused a ban on new
repeater applications in 70cms, the military being worried about the
increase in noise floor that additional signals would introduce.

73
Jeff