New to the group. New to the subject. Trying to find any answers.

Some of my friends and I are planning a 110 mile canoe trip in Montana next
year. I would like to bring along a pair of walkie talkies that are
somewhat water proof, can accept AA batteries, have decent range, and have
NOAA in case the weather takes a turn. I've been doing research and found
the Midland GXT1000VP4 walkie talkies fit the bill.

Of all the websites I hit, only one brings up the FCC license subject. I
can't get a direct answer from anyone since everyone is trying to sell them
to me and not worried about what I think after they got my money.

Will I need an FCC license? They say the radios work right out of the box
but some of the channels might be blocked without the license. How much is
the license? Are the unblocked channels over crowded and worthless?

I guess there is no way around this. ??

Thanks.

Smed

Smed wrote:
Some of my friends and I are planning a 110 mile canoe trip in Montana
next year. I would like to bring along a pair of walkie talkies that
are somewhat water proof, can accept AA batteries, have decent range,
and have NOAA in case the weather takes a turn. I've been doing
research and found the Midland GXT1000VP4 walkie talkies fit the bill.

Of all the websites I hit, only one brings up the FCC license subject.
I can't get a direct answer from anyone since everyone is trying to sell
them to me and not worried about what I think after they got my money.

Will I need an FCC license? They say the radios work right out of the
box but some of the channels might be blocked without the license. How
much is the license? Are the unblocked channels over crowded and
worthless?

AFAIK, if you use only the FRS channels, you won't need a license. You
won't get to use the higher power settings, though.

If you want to use high power, you'll need to apply to the FCC for a
GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) license.

See http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605.html for details on the
application process.

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you: you're going to an isolated
area, you'll be talking across water most of the time, and so I think
FRS will be fine.

HTH. YMMV.

Bill, W1AC

Smed wrote:

Will I need an FCC license? They say the radios work right out of the
box but some of the channels might be blocked without the license. How
much is the license? Are the unblocked channels over crowded and
worthless?

There are two radio service available to you that these devices support.

FRS, Family Radio Service, does not require a license of any kind. The
maximum power is 1/2 watt. The radio will automatically reduce power on
FRS-only channels.

GMRS, General Mobile Radio Service, does require a license. Higher
power is allowed, and the amount available will depend on the device. I
went to the Midland site and they do not list the actual power output
for the radio, which for me would be enough that I would not buy the radio.

Bottom line: How much range do you need? If your communication will be
over open water, the 1/2 watt that the FRS provides will be more than
adequate, and you can probably find much cheaper units at your local big
box store that will fill the bill. If you have a need to communicate
over longer distances, which I can't see happening on a canoe trip, go
with a more powerful unit that supports GMRS and get the license. But
do not believe the claims on the web site of 36 mile range; you might
get 36 miles over open water with full power on GMRS, but in general use
I would expect no more than a couple of miles at best.

I don't think you will run into any problems with channel overcrowding
on FRS channels, especially in the wilds of Montana. Pick something
other than "1" and you should be fine. And should you run into another
group that has picked the same channel, all you need to do is change.

And "blocked" is rather a misnomer. The radio doesn't know if you have
a license. FRS and GMRS share some channels, and the license is
required to use high power.

Have a good trip.

73, Steve KB9X

"Bill Horne" ...
Smed wrote:
Some of my friends and I are planning a 110 mile canoe trip in Montana
next year. I would like to bring along a pair of walkie talkies that are
somewhat water proof, can accept AA batteries, have decent range, and
have NOAA in case the weather takes a turn. I've been doing research and
found the Midland GXT1000VP4 walkie talkies fit the bill.

Of all the websites I hit, only one brings up the FCC license subject. I
can't get a direct answer from anyone since everyone is trying to sell
them to me and not worried about what I think after they got my money.

Will I need an FCC license? They say the radios work right out of the
box but some of the channels might be blocked without the license. How
much is the license? Are the unblocked channels over crowded and
worthless?

AFAIK, if you use only the FRS channels, you won't need a license. You
won't get to use the higher power settings, though.

If you want to use high power, you'll need to apply to the FCC for a GMRS
(General Mobile Radio Service) license.

See http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605.html for details on the
application process.

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you: you're going to an isolated area,
you'll be talking across water most of the time, and so I think FRS will
be fine.

HTH. YMMV.

Bill, W1AC


Thanks for the reply!

Even if I'm on FRS without a license, will that effect the NOAA channel or
does that just limit the transmissions and not the receptions?

Thanks again.

Smed

"Steve Bonine" ...
Smed wrote:

Will I need an FCC license? They say the radios work right out of the
box but some of the channels might be blocked without the license. How
much is the license? Are the unblocked channels over crowded and
worthless?

There are two radio service available to you that these devices support.

FRS, Family Radio Service, does not require a license of any kind. The
maximum power is 1/2 watt. The radio will automatically reduce power on
FRS-only channels.

GMRS, General Mobile Radio Service, does require a license. Higher power
is allowed, and the amount available will depend on the device. I went to
the Midland site and they do not list the actual power output for the
radio, which for me would be enough that I would not buy the radio.

Bottom line: How much range do you need? If your communication will be
over open water, the 1/2 watt that the FRS provides will be more than
adequate, and you can probably find much cheaper units at your local big
box store that will fill the bill. If you have a need to communicate over
longer distances, which I can't see happening on a canoe trip, go with a
more powerful unit that supports GMRS and get the license. But do not
believe the claims on the web site of 36 mile range; you might get 36
miles over open water with full power on GMRS, but in general use I would
expect no more than a couple of miles at best.

I don't think you will run into any problems with channel overcrowding on
FRS channels, especially in the wilds of Montana. Pick something other
than "1" and you should be fine. And should you run into another group
that has picked the same channel, all you need to do is change.

And "blocked" is rather a misnomer. The radio doesn't know if you have a
license. FRS and GMRS share some channels, and the license is required to
use high power.

Have a good trip.

73, Steve KB9X


First, thanks for the reply!

As far as how much power do I need, I really don't think I will be talking
to anyone at any great distance for the most part. The safety issue is what
I'm mostly looking at with the NOAA radio and in case we need to contact
emergency personnel (we plan on bringing a Spot Satellite GPS Messengers).
Where we are setting on, there really isn't any set off points for around
110 miles and cell phones will be worthless.

So if I have this right, the FRS channels limit the radio to 1/2 a watt but
if you switch over to the GMRS channels you can boost it to full power? Is
there a block out or password for the GMRS channels? If I had to switch
over to the GMRS to contact help, will the radio allow me access to the more
powerful channels?

Thanks again and sorry for the newbie questions.

Smed

In article , Steve Bonine wrote:

Bottom line: How much range do you need? If your communication will be
over open water, the 1/2 watt that the FRS provides will be more than
adequate, and you can probably find much cheaper units at your local big
box store that will fill the bill. If you have a need to communicate
over longer distances, which I can't see happening on a canoe trip, go
with a more powerful unit that supports GMRS and get the license. But
do not believe the claims on the web site of 36 mile range; you might
get 36 miles over open water with full power on GMRS, but in general use
I would expect no more than a couple of miles at best.

I'd expect a 36-mile range only if you're standing on top of a
mountain, talking with someone else who is also standing on top of a
mountain, with a clear line-of-sight between the two mountain tops.

In cluttered ground-level applications, I agree, a couple of miles is
about the best you can expect. In hilly terrain it's likely to be
less than that.

I don't think you will run into any problems with channel overcrowding
on FRS channels, especially in the wilds of Montana. Pick something
other than "1" and you should be fine. And should you run into another
group that has picked the same channel, all you need to do is change.

And "blocked" is rather a misnomer. The radio doesn't know if you have
a license. FRS and GMRS share some channels, and the license is
required to use high power.

There are also some GMRS-only channels. A license is required to use
these at *any* power level. I don't know whether the Midland radio in
question has access to these channels at all.

See the following URL for the FCC's take on the issue:

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...general_mobile

A GMRS license currently costs $85, and is good for five years. The
license covers an adult applicant and his/her immediate family.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"Dave Platt" wrote

I'd expect a 36-mile range only if you're standing on top of a
mountain, talking with someone else who is also standing on top of a
mountain, with a clear line-of-sight between the two mountain tops.

Where I used to work we used Kenwood Freetalk FRS (1/2 watt) radios. From
the ground, I was able to "work" a co-worker who was at 8500' some 38 miles
away, but I had to position myself between buildings so that I could
literally see the mountain. We were not quite full-quieting, but pretty well
up there. Those radios are pretty impressive.

Howard