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Old October 13th 11, 10:29 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default HOA and CC&R agreements.

I see this month's edition of QST has yet another series of
articles on how to violate the terms of the contracts people
sign when they move into a housing development.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"


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Old October 14th 11, 05:21 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default HOA and CC&R agreements.

On 10/13/2011 5:29 PM, Jeffrey Angus wrote:
I see this month's edition of QST has yet another series of
articles on how to violate the terms of the contracts people
sign when they move into a housing development.


Oh, boy, another CC&R debate! Can I bring some popcorn?

Not to pour cold water on your multiple unwarranted guesstimations, OM,
but there are some things you're assuming that aren't necessarily so.

1. CC&R's or other homeowner agreements may or may not obligate
homeowner to avoid erecting separate antenna structures, but you don't
know that they specifically prohibit the use of concealed antennas for
amateur radio.

2. The terms of the contracts people sign are subject to the laws in
effect when they signed them, and those laws might invalidate
restrictions on ham radio.

3. If you intend for everyone else in the body politic to help you
arrange your world so that nobody ever does anything that annoys you,
causes you to rethink your position, or requires you to admit to having
preconceived notions, then I suggest you find a convenient cave and take
out a lease, provided the CC&R's and homeowner agreements are everything
you expect.

HTH. HAND. YMMV.

Bill, W1AC

--
"Everything from crackers to coffins"

.... neither of which feel good on your skin.

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Old October 14th 11, 10:21 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default HOA and CC&R agreements.

Hi Bill.

Quite the opposite. I moved out to a location where I
can pretty much do what ever I want to. Antenna or other
wise.

I'm just tired of people moving to some location where
they can't have antennas and then whining about how can
I get around not having an antenna.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi


--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

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Old October 15th 11, 12:16 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default HOA and CC&R agreements.

On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 17:21:11 EDT, Jeffrey Angus
wrote:

Hi Bill.

Quite the opposite. I moved out to a location where I
can pretty much do what ever I want to. Antenna or other
wise.

I'm just tired of people moving to some location where
they can't have antennas and then whining about how can
I get around not having an antenna.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi



WTF business is it of yours where other people live and what they
"whine" about?

Some people have WAY too much time on their hands.

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Old October 15th 11, 12:51 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default HOA and CC&R agreements.

On 10/14/2011 6:16 PM, Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names wrote:
WTF business is it of yours where other people live and what they
"whine" about?

Some people have WAY too much time on their hands.


I guess you don't get it.

My point is this:
You buy a house, or condo in a development.
You sign a large legal document with stipulations
as to what you can and can not do.
You move in.
Then you immediately try and find a way to
contravene the legal document you signed.

Does having an amateur radio license automatically
grant you immunity from contractual agreements?

What's next? "I don't have to pay the mortgage this
month because I bought a new rig. I have a license."

If you bought property that clearly states "No out-
side antennas" that means just that. Whether it's
a 70' tower, flag pole, garden sculpture or bird
house.

Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"



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Old October 15th 11, 02:55 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default HOA and CC&R agreements.

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

f you bought property that clearly states "No out-
side antennas" that means just that. Whether it's
a 70' tower, flag pole, garden sculpture or bird
house.


First let's not that most CC&Rs and/or Home Owner Asocciation terms are not
clearly stated nor are they easy to discover on your own. I used to see
CC&Rs that were recorded on one section of land and then incorporated by
reference to the terms on another plot. Home Owner Associations are often
have their powers set up by the builder, and many buyers don't discover they
are affected by the terms of the HOA until either they run afoul of the
terms or they are affected by the deeds or actions of another supposed
member. It's not likely that hidden terms will go away anytime soon, but I
suggest that a limited life for the existence of cc&rs or Home Owner
Associations might not be a bad idea. The concept of something running with
the land isn't one most folk readily grasp!

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Old October 15th 11, 05:01 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default HOA and CC&R agreements.

In article Art Clemons writes:
Jeffrey Angus wrote:

f you bought property that clearly states "No out-
side antennas" that means just that. Whether it's
a 70' tower, flag pole, garden sculpture or bird
house.


First let's not that most CC&Rs and/or Home Owner Asocciation terms are not
clearly stated nor are they easy to discover on your own.


This is why one must insist on seeing the details before signing.

Alan

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Old October 15th 11, 06:11 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default HOA and CC&R agreements.

On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 12:21:06 EDT, Bill Horne
wrote:

1. CC&R's or other homeowner agreements may or may not obligate
homeowner to avoid erecting separate antenna structures, but you don't
know that they specifically prohibit the use of concealed antennas for
amateur radio.


FCC rulings in several cases have held that HOA regulations or CC&Rs
can prohibit erection of antennas on property that they have
jurisdiction over, but only the FCC can determine who and where radio
transmitters can be operated.
-- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
ARRL Volunteer Counsel

email: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

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Old October 15th 11, 02:42 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default HOA and CC&R agreements.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 01:11:15 -0400, Phil Kane wrote:

FCC rulings in several cases have held that HOA regulations or CC&Rs can
prohibit erection of antennas on property that they have jurisdiction
over, but only the FCC can determine who and where radio transmitters
can be operated.


HOAs cannot prohibit installation of TV reception antennas, including
parabolic reflectors up to 30" (36"?) on parts of the building under
exclusive control of the would-be receiver.

As a licensed amateur, the FCC allows me to determine when and where I
may transmit.

I find the invisible (stealth?) ham a fascinating subspecies and think
the hobby is better for them. Homeowners associations at best protect
property values, and reserve official actions for obvious infractions.
"Reasonable" goes a long way with good ones.

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Old October 16th 11, 05:42 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default HOA and CC&R agreements.

On Fri, 2011-10-14 at 17:21 -0400, Jeffrey Angus wrote:
Hi Bill.

Quite the opposite. I moved out to a location where I
can pretty much do what ever I want to. Antenna or other
wise.

I'm just tired of people moving to some location where
they can't have antennas and then whining about how can
I get around not having an antenna.


Jeff,

I "sort of" agree with you: we've covered this topic before on r.r.a.m.,
so I'll try to avoid beating a dead horse.

The problem with CC&R's is that builders love them and real estate
agents love them, and nervous new buyers love them, but they are,
IMNSHO, at variance with human nature and the natural, healthy
inclination to improve one's property and to make it unique and more
appealing to the owner's eye. Such "contracts" are designed to reassure
the purchasers of mediocre housing in second-rate cities that no one
will every be allowed to do anything that makes them wonder how badly
they were robbed.

There are too many people around who are eager to tell me how to live
and what to think, and I don't like the thought that, as time goes by,
the only houses that I can afford will ALL be subject to though-police
interpretation of ridiculous rules that I had to "agree" to in order to
have a roof over my head. I've got a contrarian nature, but also a
men-of-a-certain-age appreciation of differences and innovation, even if
they mean that I must "Suffer" the obligation to look at a religious
monument most politely described as "Our Lady Of The Bathtub", or a
tri-band beam that I know is too low to do anything but warm up the
birds' behinds.

CC&R's are, by their nature, covenants that demand everyone think the
same, and they are put in place to sell real estate to those whom are
afraid of anyone who thinks differently. I think a little uncivil
disobedience is called for.

YMMV.

73,

Bill W1AC




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