On 11/20/11 4:22 PM, Bill Horne wrote:
...
Please pardon my ignorance, but I always thought that #2 fuel oil /is/
diesel fuel without the road tax. Am I wrong?


Diesel fuel these days is 'ultra low' in sulfur...15 ppm, max. I think
regular fuel oil is much higher in sulfur. There may also be other
additives in diesel fuel but I'm not sure what. 'Off road' diesel is
colored red and is not subject to road taxes so it's cheaper but you'd
better not be caught with it in an over-the-road vehicle or face some
pretty stiff fines. I'd think it would be legal in a generator.

HTH...

73... Mark, AA7TA

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:14:33 EST, Bill Horne
wrote:

P.S. Jay Leno remarked that even though Willy Nelson converted his tour
bus to biodiesel, police sniffer dogs were still chasing it, so it
probably didn't smell like French fries.

Probably because they were tracking the air exchanger exhaust/vent....
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

On 11/20/2011 11:26 AM, Bill Horne wrote:

P.S. I'm also curious (although, frankly, it's not that high on my list)
about whether a diesel engine could run alternative fuels like
restaurant grease or the other "green" substitutes for diesel AND about
other hams who have actually done it.

Yes, Bio-diesel is the fuel made from Restaurant grease.. most diesel
engines can be modified to burn it. Though not all, at least not easily.

--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

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On 11/20/2011 6:22 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

Please pardon my ignorance, but I always thought that #2 fuel oil /is/
diesel fuel without the road tax. Am I wrong?

Not driving a Diesel I do not recall but it is either #2 Furnace = #1
Diesel or #1 equals #2.. I do not recall which but a dealer will know.

Though it is true that "Stuff" grows in Diesel tanks if it's allowed to
set (had that happen at work) The proper additives can prevent that for
the most part, if not completely.

--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

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On 11/20/2011 6:14 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

P.S. Jay Leno remarked that even though Willy Nelson converted his tour
bus to biodiesel, police sniffer dogs were still chasing it, so it
probably didn't smell like French fries.

Police Sniffer dogs are not much attracted to French Fries, and like a
good Ham radio operator can ignore the "noise" or in this case the nose
noise, and smell the Signal (MJ) underneath the fries.

I have had the pleasure of petting a few of those puppies.

They are real nice when you are petting them.. Not so nice when they are
working .

--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

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On 11/15/2011 11:20 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super
quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if
my perceptions match reality.

Fairly close.. I have stood near a 5KW honda inverter type and it was,
like most all inverter types, fairly quiet

I've been near some fully enclosed jobs including Military types (and in
your size class that might be the way to go) that were not bad.. Flat
head 4 cylinder engine and enclosed generator makes for fairly soft
sound with a good muffler.

I've had a fully enclosed 1KW "Traditional" generator that when it comes
to nearly all specs save power out matched a Honda EU-2000i, This was a
true Killowatt generator (1,000 watts constant) sound level was close to
the Honda at full load (I think -59 DB) fuel consumption and weight all
close to the Honda 2000.

And of course "Contractor" models, which should come with ear plugs.

--
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On 11/22/2011 12:37 PM, John Davis wrote:
On 11/20/2011 6:14 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

P.S. Jay Leno remarked that even though Willy Nelson converted his tour
bus to biodiesel, police sniffer dogs were still chasing it, so it
probably didn't smell like French fries.

Police Sniffer dogs are not much attracted to French Fries, and like a
good Ham radio operator can ignore the "noise" or in this case the nose
noise, and smell the Signal (MJ) underneath the fries.

I have had the pleasure of petting a few of those puppies.

They are real nice when you are petting them.. Not so nice when they are
working .

Although it wasn't a "sniffer" dog, a German Shepherd saved my butt once
in Danang: I was an MP, and when I told an Army private that I was
apprehending him, he pulled a shiv. I saw a blur from my right, and the
soldier was on the ground with an Air Force dog's teeth around this
throat. His handler drank for free that night.

OB Ham Radio: dogs used for Search-and-Rescue and crowd-control can
cause problems with Emcom, since some hams aren't qualified to be around
them. This goes back to the issue of training prior to deployment: if
you're not comfortable around dogs, search-and-rescue may be a problem
for you.

73,

Bill, W1AC

--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/22/2011 12:38 PM, John Davis wrote:
On 11/15/2011 11:20 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super
quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if
my perceptions match reality.

Fairly close.. I have stood near a 5KW honda inverter type and it was,
like most all inverter types, fairly quiet

I've been near some fully enclosed jobs including Military types (and in
your size class that might be the way to go) that were not bad.. Flat
head 4 cylinder engine and enclosed generator makes for fairly soft
sound with a good muffler.

I've had a fully enclosed 1KW "Traditional" generator that when it comes
to nearly all specs save power out matched a Honda EU-2000i, This was a
true Killowatt generator (1,000 watts constant) sound level was close to
the Honda at full load (I think -59 DB) fuel consumption and weight all
close to the Honda 2000.

And of course "Contractor" models, which should come with ear plugs.

It pays to check: I looked at a Briggs and Stratton 7KW unit that runs
on propane, and was astonished to see a noise rating of 72 db. The unit
is completely enclosed, and is intended for permanent installation, so
it boggles my mind that anyone would buy one unless they intend to have
a sound-dampening enclosure built around it after the installation.

Of course, noise is always a factor: even on outings like Field Day,
which is, after all, intended to simulate emergency conditions, it can
cause operator fatigue and errors. I once attended a Field Day in
California, and the noise from one of the generators was so intense that
the hams needed headphones just to hear the rigs.

What I want is a tri-fuel unit that will run on propane, diesel, or gas,
which has a sound rating below 60 db, which runs eight hours between
refuelings, and which costs less than $700. It's like the old joke from
the System Administrators: "'No bugs', 'Meets spec', 'On deadline': pick
two".

73,

Bill, W1AC

--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/12/2011 7:51 AM, Dave Heil wrote:
On 11/11/2011 20 04, Phil Kane wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:12:31 EST, Jeffrey
wrote:

Both propane, gasoline and diesel require electrical service
to run the pumps. And tanks that need to be refilled.

And good luck getting a permit for any decent-sized tank for those
fuels in any residential area. I'm talking about 96-hour capacity,
not a five-gallon Jerry can.

If one is lucky enough to live in an area which is served by natural
gas, a generator powered by that fuel would be an economical alternative
without the necessity of have a fuel dump as part of the yard.

The outfit found at the url below can show you how to inexpensively
convert a gasoline generator to natural gas or, if you aren't in an area
where that fuel is available, to propane.

http://www.propane-generators.com/

Thanks for the info: the kits are in the ~$150 range, so they're
affordable. I'm still looking for fuel cost figures from those who
have used Propane-powered gensets - I assume that gas units converted
to propane would be in the same cost range - so that I can make an
informed decision.

There is, of course, a "two-hundred pound gorilla" in the room: fuel
costs are usually minor compared to the cost of spoiled food, frozen
pipes, etc., so let me reassure everyone that I'm not looking for a
tiny difference. I'm just worried about getting a $1,000 gas bill if I
run a natural-gas powered generator for a week: we're not in need of a
fine-grained analysis here.

73,

Bill, W1AC



--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)

On 11/26/2011 12:09 AM, Bill Horne wrote:
On 11/22/2011 12:38 PM, John Davis wrote:
On 11/15/2011 11:20 PM, Bill Horne wrote:

For some reason, I get the impression that generators are either super
quiet or unbelievably noisy, with no middle ground. I'd like to see if
my perceptions match reality.

Fairly close.. I have stood near a 5KW honda inverter type and it was,
like most all inverter types, fairly quiet

I've been near some fully enclosed jobs including Military types (and in
your size class that might be the way to go) that were not bad.. Flat
head 4 cylinder engine and enclosed generator makes for fairly soft
sound with a good muffler.

I've had a fully enclosed 1KW "Traditional" generator that when it comes
to nearly all specs save power out matched a Honda EU-2000i, This was a
true Killowatt generator (1,000 watts constant) sound level was close to
the Honda at full load (I think -59 DB) fuel consumption and weight all
close to the Honda 2000.

And of course "Contractor" models, which should come with ear plugs.

It pays to check: I looked at a Briggs and Stratton 7KW unit that runs
on propane, and was astonished to see a noise rating of 72 db. The unit
is completely enclosed, and is intended for permanent installation, so
it boggles my mind that anyone would buy one unless they intend to have
a sound-dampening enclosure built around it after the installation.

Of course, noise is always a factor: even on outings like Field Day,
which is, after all, intended to simulate emergency conditions, it can
cause operator fatigue and errors. I once attended a Field Day in
California, and the noise from one of the generators was so intense that
the hams needed headphones just to hear the rigs.

What I want is a tri-fuel unit that will run on propane, diesel, or gas,
which has a sound rating below 60 db, which runs eight hours between
refuelings, and which costs less than $700. It's like the old joke from
the System Administrators: "'No bugs', 'Meets spec', 'On deadline': pick
two".


As a "for instance", I just looked at the specs of a B&S
Model 40248 that I saw on epay -

Output Sound Level . .81 dB(A) at 23 ft. (7 m) at full load

Which is, of course, of great concern. My advice is to assume that
you'll need to pay for additional sound dampening no matter what
generator you choose unless you have personal experience with the model
you're buying.

73,

Bill, W1AC


--
Bill Horne
(Remove QRM from my address to write to me directly)