"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in
ups.com:


I think after the dust settles the big issue will be grandfathering
Novices
and Advanceds to the next class up, i.e. tidying up the licence scheme.
and
of course I still want more phone on 40, 20 and 15, but it will be a while
before the FCC will get back to these things. Maybe petitions on these
things would be dismissed if they were filed right now, but later on they
might succeed.

As adamant as the FCC has been on this, it's very doubtful that
grandfathering will ever happen. They've made it plain that they consider
it reasonable for people to pass the written tests for the upgrades. In
addition, at the rate the Novice licenses are decreasing they will be all
but gone in less than 10 years anyway.

You may be somewhat right on the phone issue. Actually though I would
expect to see them try the band plan approach (ala Europe) rather than the
regulatory approach. Bad thing here is that it will be a major issue on a
contest day as the contest ops will expand to fill the whole band instead of
just part of the band for any given contest as they do now.


IOW, there are other outstanding issues, but IMHO things are moving in the
right direction.

I do wonder why this took 3 1/2 years. Maybe the large number of petitions
(18) and comments (zillions) had something to do with it. Maybe even Riley
had something to do with delaying it? Does he have that much influence?

73 de N3KIP

I'm firmly convinced that the number of petitions was a major hang-up on
processing this. Each petition had a slightly different spin and each had a
significant number of comments. The FCC staff had to digest all this and
come to an agreement on just what approach would be taken.

Dee, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
. ..

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in
ups.com:


I think after the dust settles the big issue will be grandfathering
Novices
and Advanceds to the next class up, i.e. tidying up the licence scheme.
and
of course I still want more phone on 40, 20 and 15, but it will be a
while
before the FCC will get back to these things. Maybe petitions on these
things would be dismissed if they were filed right now, but later on they
might succeed.

As adamant as the FCC has been on this, it's very doubtful that
grandfathering will ever happen. They've made it plain that they consider
it reasonable for people to pass the written tests for the upgrades. In
addition, at the rate the Novice licenses are decreasing they will be all
but gone in less than 10 years anyway.

I tend to agree with that prediction since Novice already had code credit
and the only thing between the Novice and Tech has been the written
test itself. If a Novice hasn't upgraded in the last 5 or 10 years,
odds are they have dropped from the ham radio ranks already.

(SNIP)
I do wonder why this took 3 1/2 years. Maybe the large number of
petitions
(18) and comments (zillions) had something to do with it. Maybe even
Riley
had something to do with delaying it? Does he have that much influence?

73 de N3KIP

I'm firmly convinced that the number of petitions was a major hang-up on
processing this. Each petition had a slightly different spin and each had
a significant number of comments. The FCC staff had to digest all this
and come to an agreement on just what approach would be taken.
Dee, N8UZE

I suspect it is just "low priority" within the FCC's scope of
authority.

Cheers and Happy New Year to all,

My wish for the New Year is that this forum once again become a
place for rational thought and discussion. The personal attacks
and other slimeball commentary by those who know who they are
should end. It is tragic that some people can't abide by simply
repecting the medium and using it in a positive manner.

OK, soapbox mode off :-)

Bill K2UNK

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
news

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
. ..

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in
ups.com:

[snip]
73 de N3KIP

I'm firmly convinced that the number of petitions was a major hang-up on
processing this. Each petition had a slightly different spin and each
had a significant number of comments. The FCC staff had to digest all
this and come to an agreement on just what approach would be taken.
Dee, N8UZE

I suspect it is just "low priority" within the FCC's scope of
authority.


Yup, I believe that was also a significant factor. It wouldn't surprise me
if the only reasons they got to it now was because the office was slow and
they wanted to clean up some loose ends before the end of the year.

Cheers and Happy New Year to all,


Thanks and same to you.

My wish for the New Year is that this forum once again become a
place for rational thought and discussion. The personal attacks
and other slimeball commentary by those who know who they are
should end. It is tragic that some people can't abide by simply
repecting the medium and using it in a positive manner.


I hope so too.

OK, soapbox mode off :-)

Bill K2UNK


Dee, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
...
Yup, I believe that was also a significant factor. It wouldn't surprise me
if the only reasons they got to it now was because the office was slow and
they wanted to clean up some loose ends before the end of the year.
...
Dee, N8UZE



Like any bureaucracy, the last thing they will do is move to save their
lives. This is what they did here, in a last move and hoping that it is
not too late, they removed the CW test hoping to save the amateur bands
.... they know how to save their jobs!

JS

"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
Dee Flint wrote:
...
Yup, I believe that was also a significant factor. It wouldn't surprise
me if the only reasons they got to it now was because the office was slow
and they wanted to clean up some loose ends before the end of the year.
...
Dee, N8UZE

Like any bureaucracy, the last thing they will do is move to save their
lives. This is what they did here, in a last move and hoping that it is
not too late, they removed the CW test hoping to save the amateur bands
... they know how to save their jobs!

JS

I doubt the number of amateurs would cause them to worry about their jobs.
They have a lot of areas besides amateur radio under them. And they are not
elected officials so they don't have to worry there either.

Dee, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
...
I doubt the number of amateurs would cause them to worry about their jobs.
They have a lot of areas besides amateur radio under them. And they are not
elected officials so they don't have to worry there either.

Dee, N8UZE

I think you have little respect for "The Straw Which Broke the Camels
Back" or just plain attrition ... at least in this definition of
attrition: " Attrition refers to a method of achieving a reduction in
personnel by not refilling positions that are vacated through
resignation, reassignment, transfer, retirement, or means other than
layoffs."

Regards,
JS

John Smith I wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
...
Yup, I believe that was also a significant factor. It wouldn't surprise me
if the only reasons they got to it now was because the office was slow and
they wanted to clean up some loose ends before the end of the year.
...
Dee, N8UZE

Like any bureaucracy, the last thing they will do is move to save their
lives. This is what they did here, in a last move and hoping that it is
not too late, they removed the CW test hoping to save the amateur bands
... they know how to save their jobs!

JS

John, I think your thinking is becoming too focussed about the FCC.

Amateur radio is one of the LESSER radio services the FCC must,
by law of Congress, regulate. That same law does NOT empower
them to "boost" (support, encourage) amateur radio in any way,
despite what so many ardent, life-style radio amateurs think.

Think back on FCC 99-412, the R&O establishing "restructuring."
It was issued on 30 December 1999, just about the last document
released in 1999 by the FCC. Since their official end of commentary
on the NPRM for restructuring was 15 January 1999, that left them
nearly a year to decide on the final R&O.

FCC 06-178 only has to be fitted into the publication schedule of
the Federal Register to become effective...it's all set to go except
for the effective date. It's taken roughly a year for the FCC to
decide on that (give or take a few months).

Given much MORE important subjects before the FCC, such as
the recent decision to allow AT&T to buy BellSouth, amateur radio
pales in significance. All one needs to do is check the home page
of the FCC to see their workload on US civil radio regulations...it
isn't small and those regulations on non-amateur communications
subjects affect millions of Americans more than a hobby radio
activity. Amateur radio is lucky to get as quick decisions as with
other radio services at the FCC.

One thing for sure, it didn't seem that NCI was badgering the FCC
to decide...it took NCI about a week to post the news of the pending
FCC 06-178 R&O! No sweat with the ARRL...the League has two
groups in DC to pester the FCC, a Lobbying service and a legal
firm...they can get "advance" notice of things quicker than a non-
dues civilian group...makes them look as if they are "in the know."

One must be patient. eyebrows akimbo

LA

"Bill Sohl" wrote:

I tend to agree with that prediction since Novice already had code credit
and the only thing between the Novice and Tech has been the written
test itself. If a Novice hasn't upgraded in the last 5 or 10 years,
odds are they have dropped from the ham radio ranks already.

I disagree somewhat. There will always be a segment which is 'inactive', but
will keep their license active so they can pick it up again someday when
they want.

After the restructuring of 2000, I wondered why we didn't see a mass-exodus
from the General and the Advanced ranks to Extra. There has been a continual
decrease in the General/Advanced licenses and increase in the Extra class,
but not as much as I would have expected. Without that nasty, 'hard' 20wpm
code test, wouldn't you expect those licensees to flock to Extra?

Perhaps a segment of those licensees are either inactive, or simply happy
with the operating privileges they have and have no need to upgrade? If so,
wouldn't those same reasons apply to some Novices not upgrading?


My wish for the New Year is that this forum once again become a
place for rational thought and discussion. The personal attacks
and other slimeball commentary by those who know who they are
should end.

When you put most of the nitwits in your killfile, the group is surprisingly
quiet and civil

73
KH6HZ

KH6HZ wrote:
...

73
KH6HZ



I put lot in the kill file and rarely read their posts (only if I feel a
great need to pity someone)--such as those spouting filth and perversion.

The nitwits? I just put 'em in the nitwit file in the brain, I still
read 'em. grin

Regards,
JS

"KH6HZ" wrote in message
...
"Bill Sohl" wrote:

I tend to agree with that prediction since Novice already had code credit
and the only thing between the Novice and Tech has been the written
test itself. If a Novice hasn't upgraded in the last 5 or 10 years,
odds are they have dropped from the ham radio ranks already.

I disagree somewhat. There will always be a segment which is 'inactive',
but will keep their license active so they can pick it up again someday
when they want.

After the restructuring of 2000, I wondered why we didn't see a
mass-exodus from the General and the Advanced ranks to Extra. There has
been a continual decrease in the General/Advanced licenses and increase in
the Extra class, but not as much as I would have expected. Without that
nasty, 'hard' 20wpm code test, wouldn't you expect those licensees to
flock to Extra?

Perhaps a segment of those licensees are either inactive, or simply happy
with the operating privileges they have and have no need to upgrade? If
so, wouldn't those same reasons apply to some Novices not upgrading?


Yes the same reasons would apply and I do believe that the number of Novice
licensees won't drop to zero. However looking at the slope of the curve
from the time the no-code Tech was implemented to now continues to show a
steep and steady drop. The rate of decline has been nearly constant with no
sign yet of leveling out for that license class. I would expect to see a
few hundred Novices continuing to renew as Novices but they will be
statistically insignificant.

Looking at the lack of activity in the Novice segments of the HF bands, the
novice segments in the 220 band, and the fact that we now have no Novice
licensees left in our local club, it would appear to me that the trend has
been for the active Novices to upgrade and the inactive ones not to renew on
the whole. There will be exceptions of course.


My wish for the New Year is that this forum once again become a
place for rational thought and discussion. The personal attacks
and other slimeball commentary by those who know who they are
should end.

When you put most of the nitwits in your killfile, the group is
surprisingly quiet and civil

73
KH6HZ


Dee, N8UZE