"Mike Coslo" wrote:

Up for a challenge? Memorize the Extra test, all 800 some questions
in the pool. Then let's take a test. I'll give you the test question
number, and you give me the letter answer. Since memorization presumably
has nothing to do with the knowledge, this should be easy as the new
applicants have in taking the so called dumbed down tests

That isn't how memorization works.

While there may be some people who "memorize" the question and answer, in
reality what most people are referring to when they talk about
"memorization" is in fact something more akin to "word association" or
"familiarity".

All one has to do is read the question pool enough, or drill long enough
using a computer program, that they will "recognize" the correct answer when
they see it. They don't actually "memorize" the question pool per se, such
that they know the answer to question ### is AAA. No, instead, they simply
become familiar enough with it that they can recognize the correct answer to
the question, much the same way you become familiar with many things in life
without actually "memorizing" them.


A lot of Technicians I know used the "Now You're Talking" books.
Lots of stuff in there that prepares you for radio operations.

When I got my tech license, I used the Gorden West book. That's not how I
passed the exams though.


Do you think that most new hams get their license, then hire people
to put their stations together after they buy their "Yaecomwood"
boxes?

"putting a station" together these days involves little more than calling
HRO, unpacking the boxes UPS delivers, and plugging everything in. Not much
theory required there.

73
KH6HZ

KH6HZ wrote:
All one has to do is read the question pool enough, or drill long enough
using a computer program, that they will "recognize" the correct answer when
they see it.

The majority of a grammar school education probably
uses that method of learning.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

"Cecil Moore" wrote:

The majority of a grammar school education probably
uses that method of learning.

Not sure of your grammer school experience, since you're older than I am,
but mine mainly rested on rote-memorization. Vocabulary, math tables, etc.

"KH6HZ" wrote in message
...
"Cecil Moore" wrote:

The majority of a grammar school education probably
uses that method of learning.

Not sure of your grammer school experience, since you're older than I am,
but mine mainly rested on rote-memorization. Vocabulary, math tables, etc.


That is because for the material being taught in grammar school, the rote
memorization approach is probably the most appropriate. There's really no
other way to learn math tables except repetition via memorization.

Dee, N8UZE

Cecil Moore wrote in
:

KH6HZ wrote:
All one has to do is read the question pool enough, or drill long
enough using a computer program, that they will "recognize" the
correct answer when they see it.

The majority of a grammar school education probably
uses that method of learning.

Very true - a most old fashioned way of teaching.

Some hams won't be satisfied with the testing regimen unless the tests are
so hard that no one can pass them.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote in
:
..hams won't be satisfied with the testing regimen unless the tests are
so hard that no one can pass them.

indeed that is the goal to end the ARS since they lost the war on code
testing

"KH6HZ" wrote in message
...
"Mike Coslo" wrote:

Up for a challenge? Memorize the Extra test, all 800 some questions
in the pool. Then let's take a test. I'll give you the test question
number, and you give me the letter answer. Since memorization presumably
has nothing to do with the knowledge, this should be easy as the new
applicants have in taking the so called dumbed down tests

That isn't how memorization works.

While there may be some people who "memorize" the question and answer, in
reality what most people are referring to when they talk about
"memorization" is in fact something more akin to "word association" or
"familiarity".

All one has to do is read the question pool enough, or drill long enough
using a computer program, that they will "recognize" the correct answer
when they see it. They don't actually "memorize" the question pool per se,
such that they know the answer to question ### is AAA. No, instead, they
simply become familiar enough with it that they can recognize the correct
answer to the question, much the same way you become familiar with many
things in life without actually "memorizing" them.



Besides memorizing that way will lead to certain failure. The questions and
answers on the exam are worded the same way BUT the answers are allowed to
be in a different order and they are. The reason is to prevent people
memorizing the A, B, C, or D.

Dee, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote:

Besides memorizing that way will lead to certain failure. The questions
and answers on the exam are worded the same way BUT the answers are
allowed to be in a different order and they are. The reason is to prevent
people memorizing the A, B, C, or D.

True. I would say the vast majority of people who "memorize" the question
pools do not actually "memorize" verbatim the questions and answers, but
instead simply familiarize themselves enough with the pools such that they
can recognize the correct answer on the examination, regardless of whether
it appears in position A, B, C, or D.

Granted, certain types of questions lend themselves to 'rote memorization'.
Definitions, for instance. An ohm is an ohm is not a watt. Most of the
regulations probably also fall into this category as well, as do things like
circuit diagram symbols. You just have to "know" where band limits are, and
what a NPN transistor "looks like".

I've always been a proponent of eliminating question pools, and instead
allowing computer programs to randomly generate question sets. No longer
would there be a "where on the HF 80m bands are you allowed to transmit CW?"
question with 4 static answers. Instead, the question could have 1 randomly
generated correct answer and 3 randomly generated detractors.

Such a test setup would at least ensure that folks taking the test have the
requisite knowledge base to pass the test, and didn't simply familiarize
themselves w/ the question pool enough to successfully pass the test.

73
KH6HZ

KH6HZ wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote:

Besides memorizing that way will lead to certain failure. The questions
and answers on the exam are worded the same way BUT the answers are
allowed to be in a different order and they are. The reason is to prevent
people memorizing the A, B, C, or D.

True. I would say the vast majority of people who "memorize" the question
pools do not actually "memorize" verbatim the questions and answers, but
instead simply familiarize themselves enough with the pools such that they
can recognize the correct answer on the examination, regardless of whether
it appears in position A, B, C, or D.

Granted, certain types of questions lend themselves to 'rote memorization'.
Definitions, for instance. An ohm is an ohm is not a watt. Most of the
regulations probably also fall into this category as well, as do things like
circuit diagram symbols. You just have to "know" where band limits are, and
what a NPN transistor "looks like".

I've always been a proponent of eliminating question pools, and instead
allowing computer programs to randomly generate question sets. No longer
would there be a "where on the HF 80m bands are you allowed to transmit CW?"
question with 4 static answers. Instead, the question could have 1 randomly
generated correct answer and 3 randomly generated detractors.

Such a test setup would at least ensure that folks taking the test have the
requisite knowledge base to pass the test, and didn't simply familiarize
themselves w/ the question pool enough to successfully pass the test.

now if you can describe to me how this does 2 thing you will have my
suport for a proposal

one how does it serve the interest of the ARS

two how does it serve the interest of the public at large

it was lateer that the Porocders realy feel down and the later is most
important

73
KH6HZ

"an_old_friend" wrote:

one how does it serve the interest of the ARS

two how does it serve the interest of the public at large

The ARS is a technical service, alledgedly charged with maintaining a pool
of trained radio operators, to provide emergency communications, advance the
radio art, contribute to international goodwill, and advance their skills in
communications and technical phases of the art.

These purposes are outlined in Section 97.1.

An individual who simply passed the requisite examinations to obtain their
license without studying the underlying electronics/antenna/etc theory does
not meet those goals.

It is extremely likely that people who pass their examinations using these
methods will not continue to increase their electronics or radio knowledge,
since they didn't take the time to learn any to begin with.


I, for one, do not think that the ARS needs a pool of appliance operators.
Granted, to some degree, appliance operations are going to be a "given" in
today's age, since hardly any amateurs build their own gear any longer.


However, if you're looking for a radio service devoid of any technical
knowledge, there are many others that fit that bill available to
individuals.