On Jan 23, 10:15*pm, Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote oups..com:

About 1961, FCC decided to "modernize" the license tests. They were
all converted to multiple choice format, with a new answer sheet that
could be machine-graded. This transition did not take place overnight,
though - the field offices first used up their supply of old tests
before going to the new ones.* * * *

I'm a little confused here. My 1956 Guide has Multiple choice for the
General test and Technician test at that time. Were they wrong?

Couple of points:

- Before March 21, 1987, the General and Technician used
exactly the same written test. The only difference in testing
for the two licenses was that General required 13 wpm code
and Technician required 5 wpm code.

- When the Conditional license existed, it too used the same
written test as the General and Technician.

- The questions and answers in the Ameco Guide you
have were not the actual questions used on the test. They
were written by Ameco, and were derived from the essay-
type study guides provided by the FCC.

- The General/Technician exams in the 1950s were not
100% multiple choice. There were a few draw-a-diagram
questions and some show-your-work calculation questions.
But the majority of the questions on those exams *were*
multiple choice, and the Ameco folks may have thought
their Guide to be adequate.

--

It is interesting that the Ameco book doesn't cover the
Extra exam. In those days (1956), the Advanced was
closed to new issues, but folks who held an Advanced
could continue to renew and modify as needed. A few
hams made the jump from General to Extra, but only a
few went for Extra in those years because it gave no
additional operating privileges, and the Extra required
another trip to an FCC examiner. The Conditional was
the by-mail equivalent of the General back then, and
if you lived more than 75 miles from an FCC exam
point you could get a Conditional. But there was no
by-mail option for the Extra. Conditionals made up a
sizable percentage of US amateur radio in the 1950s.
One source I saw said Conditionals accounted for about
25% of 1950s US hams. In that same period Extras
were only about 2%.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
- When the Conditional license existed, it too used the same
written test as the General and Technician.

I heard that the reason the FCC was so protective of
those exams is that they only had two different versions
of them. Any truth to that?

One source I saw said Conditionals accounted for about
25% of 1950s US hams.

As I remember, Conditionals who moved closer than 75 miles
to an FCC office were supposed to retake the General. I
never did that and, if I remember correctly, I was later
grandfathered to General - can't remember exactly when.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Jan 24, 10:00*am, Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote:
- When the Conditional license existed, it too used the same
written test as the General and Technician.

I heard that the reason the FCC was so protective of
those exams is that they only had two different versions
of them. Any truth to that?

Hello Cecil,

I don't know if there were only two exams in those days. I do know that
there were not a
lot of different exam versions then - I've seen reports of there being
only three, and others that the number never exceeded five

In any event, there were so few that if a person kept going back to FCC
and retook the written exam, pretty soon they'd have to come across the
exact same exam they'd taken before.

As I understand it, the limited number of different written exams was
also one reason for
the 30-day-wait-before-retesting rule.

One source I saw said Conditionals accounted for about
25% of 1950s US hams.

As I remember, Conditionals who moved closer than 75 miles
to an FCC office were supposed to retake the General. I
never did that and, if I remember correctly, I was later
grandfathered to General - can't remember exactly when.

What happened was this:

Prior to about 1953, all amateur exams were conducted by FCC unless
someone lived more than 125 miles "air-line" from an FCC exam point, or
was a shut-in. This included Novices and Technicians. Also, if a ham
who obtained a license "by-mail" moved to less than 125 miles from an
FCC exam point, they had 90 days to retest or forfeit their license.

On top of all that, the Extra/Advanced/Class A exams were not routinely
available by mail, and if a ham with a by-mail license wanted one of
those licenses, they not only had to travel to FCC, they also had to
retake the General exams first.

The reason the license was called "Conditional" was that it was issued
conditionally, in FCC's view, and when the conditions changed you had
to retest.

Most of those rules changed about 1953-54:

Novice and Technician became by-mail licenses regardless of distance.

The "Conditional distance was reduced from 125 miles to 75 miles
"air-line"

The requirement to retest if you moved closer was eliminated.

And in February 1953, Conditionals and Generals got the same operating
privileges as Advanceds and Extras.

That state of affairs lasted a decade or so, until 1964-65. Then FCC
changed the "Conditional distance" from 75 miles to 175 miles, and
increased the number of exam points. These changes greatly reduced the
places where a person in CONUS could qualify for a new Conditional
license because of distance.

Those 1964-65 changes to the Conditional were one reason for some of
the opposition to the "incentive licensing" changes that came later in
the 1960s.

Finally in the mid-1970s the FCC phased out the Conditional completely.
They simply stopped offering it, and began renewing all Conditionals as
Generals. This was in the era when FCC not only had many scheduled
exams, but would also send out traveling examiners upon request if a
minimum number of examinees could be guaranteed. Ham exam sessions were
being conducted by FCC at hamfests, conventions, and club meetings, and
the perceived need for the Conditional disappeared.

---

Your recollections are correct, Cecil, with minor corrections to the
Conditional distance. Which changed right around the time you got the
license, as did the retest rules.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
Your recollections are correct, Cecil, with minor corrections to the
Conditional distance. Which changed right around the time you got the
license, as did the retest rules.

Thanks Jim, for the history lesson.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Jan 25, 9:26*am, Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote:

Your recollections are correct, Cecil, with minor corrections to the
Conditional distance. Which changed right around the time you got the
license, as did the retest rules.

Thanks Jim, for the history lesson.

You're welcome, Cecil. Thanks for reading.

The old Conditional was preceded by the Class C, which was essentially
the same license with a different name. Early 1930s until the 1951
restructuring.

Some folks think that the 1964-65 rules Conditional changes really cut
into the growth of US ham radio. After those changes, a ham who wanted
a renewable license with HF privileges pretty much had to go to an FCC
exam point unless s/he lived *way* out in the boonies. Just getting to
the exam could be a major journey, depending on where you lived.

I was lucky - all I needed was decent shoes and a couple of subway
tokens. Three quarters of a mile to the 69th Street Terminal, the
Market-Frankford Subway-Elevated to 2nd Street, and a block south to
the US Custom House.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
Just getting to
the exam could be a major journey, depending on where you lived.

Come to think of it - my parents drove me to the Houston
FCC office for my Novice exam so at that time the distance
limit was still 125 miles. A year later, when my Novice
expired, I was eligible to take the Conditional by mail
because the distance limit had been reduced to 75 miles.
I have lost track of exactly when I got those licenses
but that knowledge should help to bracket the dates.
Thanks again, Jim.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Jan 25, 7:52*pm, Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote:
Just getting to
the exam could be a major journey, depending on where you lived.

Come to think of it - my parents drove me to the Houston
FCC office for my Novice exam so at that time the distance
limit was still 125 miles. A year later, when my Novice
expired, I was eligible to take the Conditional by mail
because the distance limit had been reduced to 75 miles.
I have lost track of exactly when I got those licenses
but that knowledge should help to bracket the dates.

Here's an exact date, Cecil:

June 10, 1954

On that date, the "Conditional distance" was reduced from 125 miles to
75 miles "air-line" from a quarterly examining point.

Also on that date, FCC stopped giving routine Novice and Technician
exams at FCC exam sessions, and instead gave the job to volunteer
examiners. After that date, Novice and Technician exams wouyld be done
by mail regardless of distance from and FCC exam point.

In those days there were three FCC offices in Texas - Houston, Dallas
and Beaumont. Houston and Dallas gave exams on a weekly schedule, while
Beaumont was a sub-office that.gave exams by appointment. Exams were
also given four times a year in San Antonio.

Of course, in Texas, it's not at all difficult to be more than 75 miles
from all four of those offices.

The reason cited for the changes was that the FCC exam sessions were
overloaded with amateurs taking the exams, and the FCC had almost
overrun its 1953 budget for giving exams. In those days there were no
license fees to defray the cost.

This overload happened even though the FCC had stopped giving the
Advanced exam 18 months earlier (end of 1952) and there were few
applicants for the Extra because that license did not convey any
additional operating privileges. Also, the "retest if you move closer"
rule had been dropped in 1952, yet the FCC exam sessions were brusting
at the seems..

Thanks again, Jim.

You're welcome, Cecil. Hope that helps pin down the date.

---

btw, in those days the FCC did not give credit for license exam
elements previously passed unless they were passed in front of an FCC
examiner. If a Novice who had gotten the license by mail went for the
Technician, s/he had to do the 5 wpm code again. If a by-mail
Technician went for the General or Conditional, s/he had to do the
written exam again even though, back then, all three of those license
classes used the same written test.


73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote in
oups.com:

On Jan 25, 9:26*am, Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote:

Your recollections are correct, Cecil, with minor corrections to
the Conditional distance. Which changed right around the time you
got the license, as did the retest rules.

Thanks Jim, for the history lesson.

You're welcome, Cecil. Thanks for reading.

The old Conditional was preceded by the Class C, which was essentially
the same license with a different name. Early 1930s until the 1951
restructuring.

Some folks think that the 1964-65 rules Conditional changes really cut
into the growth of US ham radio. After those changes, a ham who wanted
a renewable license with HF privileges pretty much had to go to an FCC
exam point unless s/he lived *way* out in the boonies. Just getting to
the exam could be a major journey, depending on where you lived.

I understand what you say here Jim, but I don't agree. If a person
can go to the trouble of learning Morse code, they should be able to
go to the trouble of traveling to the FCC exam points. I can't
imagine that a peron who went to the trouble of learning the
material would feel otherwise.


I was lucky - all I needed was decent shoes and a couple of subway
tokens. Three quarters of a mile to the 69th Street Terminal, the
Market-Frankford Subway-Elevated to 2nd Street, and a block south to
the US Custom House.

I travelled about 120 mikes fro my Tech, about 300 for my General
written CSCE, a mere 20 for my Element 1, and aroud 70 for my Extra.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote in
oups.com:

On Jan 25, 9:26 am, Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote:
Your recollections are correct, Cecil, with minor corrections to
the Conditional distance. Which changed right around the time you
got the license, as did the retest rules.
Thanks Jim, for the history lesson.
You're welcome, Cecil. Thanks for reading.

The old Conditional was preceded by the Class C, which was essentially
the same license with a different name. Early 1930s until the 1951
restructuring.

Some folks think that the 1964-65 rules Conditional changes really cut
into the growth of US ham radio. After those changes, a ham who wanted
a renewable license with HF privileges pretty much had to go to an FCC
exam point unless s/he lived *way* out in the boonies. Just getting to
the exam could be a major journey, depending on where you lived.

I understand what you say here Jim, but I don't agree. If a person
can go to the trouble of learning Morse code, they should be able to
go to the trouble of traveling to the FCC exam points. I can't
imagine that a peron who went to the trouble of learning the
material would feel otherwise.

Just for grins, Mike, make the applicant 12-14 years of age. Put him in
a family with one automobile where the father works during the day and
the mother doesn't drive.


I was lucky - all I needed was decent shoes and a couple of subway
tokens. Three quarters of a mile to the 69th Street Terminal, the
Market-Frankford Subway-Elevated to 2nd Street, and a block south to
the US Custom House.

I travelled about 120 mikes fro my Tech, about 300 for my General
written CSCE, a mere 20 for my Element 1, and aroud 70 for my Extra.

The nearest examination point when I was a kid would have been better
than 50 miles each way, in a time before there was an Interstate Highway
anywhere nearby. The journey each direction would have taken at least
an hour-and-a-half over two lane mountain roads. The examination point
was one of those which the FCC visited quarterly.

Dave K8MN

Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote in
oups.com:

On Jan 25, 9:26 am, Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote:

Your recollections are correct, Cecil, with minor corrections to
the Conditional distance. Which changed right around the time you
got the license, as did the retest rules.

Thanks Jim, for the history lesson.

You're welcome, Cecil. Thanks for reading.

The old Conditional was preceded by the Class C, which was essentially
the same license with a different name. Early 1930s until the 1951
restructuring.

Some folks think that the 1964-65 rules Conditional changes really cut
into the growth of US ham radio. After those changes, a ham who wanted
a renewable license with HF privileges pretty much had to go to an FCC
exam point unless s/he lived *way* out in the boonies. Just getting to
the exam could be a major journey, depending on where you lived.

I understand what you say here Jim, but I don't agree. If a person
can go to the trouble of learning Morse code, they should be able to
go to the trouble of traveling to the FCC exam points.

It's a completely different situation. Learning Morse Code is directly
related
to getting the license and what is done with it. Traveling to a
distant city back
in the days before the Interstate Highway System isn't.

I can't
imagine that a peron who went to the trouble of learning the
material would feel otherwise.

I can. And it's not about how anyone felt - it's about the reality of
the
requirements.

It all depends on the situation, Mike. Consider the case posed by
K8MN,
which was very common in the 1950s and 1960s. How was a young 1950s
ham supposed to get to a license test session 120 miles away, and be
there before
8 AM on a weekday morning?

Remember too that the distance rule was "air line", meaning straight-
line
distance on the map, not actual distance on the road. In many places,
125 miles air-line could be twice that on the road. More than three
hours
at the common speed limit of 40 mph - if everything went according to
plan.

For me, the biggest difficulty in getting to the FCC office was the
fact that
tests in the Philly office were only given on Mondays, Tuesdays and
Wednesdays - which were all school days. Young hams like me had to
wait for summer, or a school holiday that was not a Federal holiday.
(There was no way a school kid would skip school for a day to take
a ham radio exam!) With the 30 day wait to retest, there was a real
incentive to pass on the first try.

I was lucky - all I needed was decent shoes and a couple of subway
tokens. Three quarters of a mile to the 69th Street Terminal, the
Market-Frankford Subway-Elevated to 2nd Street, and a block south to
the US Custom House.

I travelled about 120 mikes fro my Tech, about 300 for my General
written CSCE, a mere 20 for my Element 1, and aroud 70 for my Extra.

Round trip or one way? Weekday or weekend? Did you have to be there at
8 AM or be turned away?

Most of all, note the wide variation in distances. I'll bet you went
to different
VE sessions at various hamfests, some close to home, some not. You
went
when it was convenient for *you*.

My point is that in the Conditional days there was no choice. You went
to
the FCC office, on their schedule, unless you lived beyond the
Conditional
distance.

And note this most of all: FCC didn't change the distance in 1954
because
of concern for hams having to travel long distances to get to an exam
session.
FCC changed the distance to reduce their workload giving the exams!


73 de Jim, N2EY