N2EY wrote:
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message om...

(N2EY) wrote in message ...

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:


(William) wrote in message



Cecil didn't "switch" anything,

The hell he didn't. He resigned his NCI membership.

Really? I obviously missed that one. Good for him.

After the rules changed, he said that reduction to 5 wpm for all classes was
enough. He resigned his membership in NCI and soon after reduced his
participation here. He's still around in rraa but not nearly as much as
before.

The bottom line is that Cecil and many others are ahead of the power
curve as usual but thee and me and a few other PCTAs are silly enough
to still hang out around here.


Sort of. Who does most of the posting here, in both number of posts
and length? It ain't me or thee, by a long shot.


This USENET group was a huge deal back
when the code test flap was The Big Thing.


4-1/2+ years ago.


Which at this point is a
dead topic since the code test is obviously not going away within any
visible timframe if ever.


Frankly, I'm amazed that FCC didn't MO&O it out of existence last
summer.


So Cecil, Hare, innumerable others and even
Carl Anderson


Stevenson


for cripes sake, the Honcho Maximo of NCI wised up and
bailed out of here long ago leaving us to bicker mindlesssly,
circularly and endlessly with dim lights like Burke and the other
Anderson. WE'RE the RRAP stupids for bothering with any of it
Miccolis.


Who is bothering? I read a few posts, write a few, discuss interesting
topics with KB3EIA, N8UZE, and some others. Filtering what one reads
works wonders.

Carl only got to reap what he sowed. He also altered his opinion to
something he said that he would never do. Nothing wrong with changing
one's mind - I do it at least three times before breakfast. (someone's
quote) But a large part of my earlier respect was based on that "never
reducing test requirements" statement. So he did a lot of credibility
erosion there.

And I respond to who I like in the group. occasionally even Lenover21,
when I'm in a puckish mood! ;^)


Sorry you weren't there to join that exercise

No you're not.

Congratulations Burke, you finally got something right.

All were invited. Some of us showed up. And some of us have worked since.

Remember that FD when you worked AC6XG on 20 CW?

Sure, whatta hoot. What was is it . . midnight or so at that hopeless
Clayton Park FD fiasco . . ?


Yep.


20 had been slowly petering down all
evening and I was in a hurt for Qs but then suddenly the Ether perked
up and there was Jim big and bad at 40wpm. I'll do you a favor and not
get into a description your dismal encounter with my Kent paddles . .
heh . . !


Then I hooked up the bug and chatted w/him. That musta been four years
ago - since then I've done at least 3 non-CP FDs


Logged him.

Refresh me here James, I think it was around the time that I logged XG
that I/we started to hear a lot more signals from very far off places
than I/we could hear from US FD stations. So to hell with FD, let's
get back to basics and go dxing I sayithed to self. Worked the JA who
was in some other contest. Logged him too. Apparently Newington did
not disallow that one.


DX contacts count for FD. They give you a signal report, it counts.


They simpy doan give a **** abt FD logs good or
bogus.


Not true! The QSOs were good. There was one SP handing 'em out 2-3 a
minute later on - remember? They all counted.


Then came Balch who finally waddled in out of the gloom of the
parking lot (two hours late as usual) to take over the seat and rolled
his eyes heavenward when he was copying my Q with the VK2 blaring all
over the park from the 940 spkr.


Yep.

DX qsos count; it's just that DX stations' logs aren't counted
competitively in the listings.

A year or two ago the definition was changed so that FD covers not
just North America but SA too. Which means N2EY/Tierra del Fuego could
compete...


. . worked the German and then the Peruvian but that was it, thus I
blew a one-hour midnite FD WAC for the lack of a Q with an African.
RATZ, not a ZS6 anywhere to be found!


I remember....

All of 'em, I believe we agree (but check me), were worked with
radiation from the shield of the coax which fed Robert's triband
Mosely aircooled dummy load upon high.


Musta been 5 years ago, becuz the next year you brought the halfsize
G5RV to avoid such headaches.

I have not gotten into this topic previously anywhere with anybody
because several years later it still ****es me off the extent that I
can still easily go too ballistic about it and post fodder which
anti-hams would just love. But fuggit, I gotta get it off my chest and
let the chips fall where they might.


I hear ya.

I don't remember which of those three Clayton Park debacles we did
together but during one of 'em it was well after sundown, very late,
most of the usual crowd had gone home, activity was down and I was
grinding away but going nowhere in a hurry. I took a break for a pit
stop. On my way back to my seat I first passed a group of the usual
collection of hardcore neighborhood repeater dwellers we both know
bull****ting abt nothing as usual. A few feet later there was young
guy who was clearly having odd problems with the HF xcvr he was using,
some POS or another. So I asked "Are you having problems guy?" "Yes I
am".

The guy was blind, he was not familiar with the POS "they" finally
scheduled him to operate after everybody else had gotten their jollies
off with it earlier at their convenience but he could not diddle it's
controls and get it on the air. I sat with him for some length of
time, maybe 15 minutes or so and guided his hands around the front
panel of the xcvr and got him up and running on some phone band or
another. In the meanwhile the aformentioned collection of bull****ers
wasn't more than eight feet from him throuhout all of it. I gotta tell
you that in all my half century on the bands that was the worst of the
worst of the bad experiences I've had in the game. Madonna was right:
It's a material world. Yes, I fear for the future of ham radio.


I did not know that story. Makes me sick.

Oy! Just remember, Karma keeps a bank account, and pays back with
interest! Thank goodness you stopped to help the guy, Brian.


Now watch, somebody will spin it into being *your* fault.

But do not fear for the future of amateur radio too much. Here's why:

Back when you started, and to a lesser extent even when I started, ham
radio was populated mostly by folks who took it very seriously. "Radio
for its own sake" wasn't something most people were interested in. The
license process, operating skill requirements and equipment costs
alone insured that most hams had a considerable personal investment -
and the money was the least of it. Sure, there were some clueless folk
but they either learned or were really frustrated.

Then a bunch of things happened. The cb boom made 2 way radio popular
and practical for lots of folks, the development of ssb and then fm
transceivers and solidstate made the equipment small, less expensive
and easier to use, etc. We got a lot of good hams, of course, but also
a sizable number who are only "sort of" interested, and who don't take
it that seriously, nor have a big personal investment. The whole code
test issue is really just an iceberg-tip for the concept of personal
investment.

Now we have the internet and cheap cell phones and GMRS/FRS. Which
have pulled away a lot of the folks who were "sort of" interested in
ham radio. That's why repeater use and 'honeydew' licensing is down -
much easier to just use the cell phone or FRS.

So the future of ham radio relies on those who are really interested
in radio for its own sake and are a lot more than "sort of"
interested. Those folks are out there, and will continue to be. But
they will not be attracted by lowering the requirements or trying to
make ham radio a sort of rf version of the internet.


Wow! That last paragraph is a real keeper, Jim. I may post it in my
shack, WYP of course....



- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message om...


So Cecil, Hare, innumerable others and even
Carl Anderson


Stevenson

I think I'm gonna have a hard time living that one down . . ! Friggin'
Halfheimers . . !

for cripes sake, the Honcho Maximo of NCI wised up and
bailed out of here long ago leaving us to bicker mindlesssly,
circularly and endlessly with dim lights like Burke and the other
Anderson. WE'RE the RRAP stupids for bothering with any of it
Miccolis.


Who is bothering? I read a few posts, write a few, discuss interesting
topics with KB3EIA, N8UZE, and some others. Filtering what one reads
works wonders.

Carl only got to reap what he sowed. He also altered his opinion to
something he said that he would never do. Nothing wrong with changing
one's mind - I do it at least three times before breakfast. (someone's
quote) But a large part of my earlier respect was based on that "never
reducing test requirements" statement. So he did a lot of credibility
erosion there.

Mike this is gonna come off a bit weird coming from a hardcore PCTA
but I learned that the Carl is basically an OK kinda guy. I met him
eyeball-to-eyball in the Emmaus PA area when Hare, W3HJ, Carl and I
were chasing BPL signals around that area together. I had dinner with
him and at one point threatened him with a code test which he took in
good humor etc. Today he and I continue to keep in touch on a number
of topics well beyond the code test thing. Gets down to firmly
establishing the fact that, with a few obvious exceptions, perceptions
of the overall characters of RRAPers based only on what they post here
can't be taken seriously.

And I respond to who I like in the group. occasionally even Lenover21,
when I'm in a puckish mood! ;^)

.. . . see above WRT to "obvious exceptions" . . .

The guy was blind . . that was the worst of the
worst of the bad experiences I've had in the game. Madonna was right:
It's a material world. Yes, I fear for the future of ham radio.

I did not know that story. Makes me sick.

Oy! Just remember, Karma keeps a bank account, and pays back with
interest! Thank goodness you stopped to help the guy, Brian.

Gawd I was ****ed off at those jerks . . still am . . .


So the future of ham radio relies on those who are really interested
in radio for its own sake and are a lot more than "sort of"
interested. Those folks are out there, and will continue to be. But
they will not be attracted by lowering the requirements or trying to
make ham radio a sort of rf version of the internet.


Wow! That last paragraph is a real keeper, Jim. I may post it in my
shack, WYP of course....

Jim's 100% on the money.


- Mike KB3EIA -

w3rv

Brian Kelly wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

N2EY wrote:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message om...



So Cecil, Hare, innumerable others and even
Carl Anderson


Stevenson


I think I'm gonna have a hard time living that one down . . ! Friggin'
Halfheimers . . !


for cripes sake, the Honcho Maximo of NCI wised up and
bailed out of here long ago leaving us to bicker mindlesssly,
circularly and endlessly with dim lights like Burke and the other
Anderson. WE'RE the RRAP stupids for bothering with any of it
Miccolis.


Who is bothering? I read a few posts, write a few, discuss interesting
topics with KB3EIA, N8UZE, and some others. Filtering what one reads
works wonders.

Carl only got to reap what he sowed. He also altered his opinion to
something he said that he would never do. Nothing wrong with changing
one's mind - I do it at least three times before breakfast. (someone's
quote) But a large part of my earlier respect was based on that "never
reducing test requirements" statement. So he did a lot of credibility
erosion there.


Mike this is gonna come off a bit weird coming from a hardcore PCTA
but I learned that the Carl is basically an OK kinda guy. I met him
eyeball-to-eyball in the Emmaus PA area when Hare, W3HJ, Carl and I
were chasing BPL signals around that area together. I had dinner with
him and at one point threatened him with a code test which he took in
good humor etc. Today he and I continue to keep in touch on a number
of topics well beyond the code test thing. Gets down to firmly
establishing the fact that, with a few obvious exceptions, perceptions
of the overall characters of RRAPers based only on what they post here
can't be taken seriously.

I don't doubt that he is a decent sort. I suspect that most everyone
here would be enjoyable to be around. I would enjoy meeting Lenover21, I
would bet Steve would be a great guy to have a brew with, and I can't
condemn Brian, seein' as how he is a homebrewer!(of beer that is) ;^)
And I'm sure Hans is a hoot. And those are the people I have had some
real disagreements with.

But in the context of in here, it did frost me a bit when he decided to
support the NCVEC petition. Simply no need for that.


And I respond to who I like in the group. occasionally even Lenover21,
when I'm in a puckish mood! ;^)


. . . see above WRT to "obvious exceptions" . . .


The guy was blind . . that was the worst of the
worst of the bad experiences I've had in the game. Madonna was right:
It's a material world. Yes, I fear for the future of ham radio.

I did not know that story. Makes me sick.

Oy! Just remember, Karma keeps a bank account, and pays back with
interest! Thank goodness you stopped to help the guy, Brian.


Gawd I was ****ed off at those jerks . . still am . . .


So the future of ham radio relies on those who are really interested
in radio for its own sake and are a lot more than "sort of"
interested. Those folks are out there, and will continue to be. But
they will not be attracted by lowering the requirements or trying to
make ham radio a sort of rf version of the internet.


Wow! That last paragraph is a real keeper, Jim. I may post it in my
shack, WYP of course....


Jim's 100% on the money.

Yup!

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

for cripes sake, the Honcho Maximo of NCI wised up and
bailed out of here long ago leaving us to bicker mindlesssly,
circularly and endlessly with dim lights like Burke and the other
Anderson. WE'RE the RRAP stupids for bothering with any of it
Miccolis.

Who is bothering? I read a few posts, write a few, discuss interesting
topics with KB3EIA, N8UZE, and some others. Filtering what one reads
works wonders.

Carl only got to reap what he sowed.

Carl *used to* be one of the top name-callers, insulters, shouters, and
all-around behave-like-a-two-year-old posters here. Almost but not quite down
to Len Anderson's level of behavior.

Then Carl mellowed out and his online behavior improved dramatically. He also
became a lot easier to agree with! Perhaps it was the influence of
assertive-but-not-aggressive folks like W1RFI or K2UNK, perhaps it was seeing
FCC up close, perhaps it was the 2000 restructuring or maybe it was something
else like the fact that some of us simply refused to reply in kind. Or a
combination of factors, I don't know.

It should be remembered that Carl did, and is doing, a very significant job in
the anti-BPL efforts, including actual observations and measurements, with
detailed commentary to FCC based on first-hand experience.

He also altered his opinion to
something he said that he would never do. Nothing wrong with changing
one's mind - I do it at least three times before breakfast. (someone's
quote) But a large part of my earlier respect was based on that "never
reducing test requirements" statement. So he did a lot of credibility
erosion there.

I was really surprised at that too - at first. What it comes down to is a
political move. I think Carl so wants Element 1 to be removed, and the rules to
be simplified, that he supported the ARRL proposal even though it effectively
reduces written requirements. All about compromising to get what he thought was
most important. Faulty as it is, the ARRL proposal is much much better than the
NCVEC "Communicator" one.

Side note: If you read the commentaries on the 18 or so restructuring petitions
so far, there's no clear consensus *for* any of them. In fact, the majority
opinion seems to be to leave things as they are (including the code test), or
make minor adjustments around the edges. What's missing in that pile of
commentary is broad-based support for a workable proposal.

Now if some proposal did get a lot of support, (say 70-80% or more favorable)
there's a good chance FCC would take that as consensus and run with it. No
restructuring proposal thus far has gotten near that much acceptance. So Carl
supported the ARRL petition, warts and all, in the hope it would carry the day.
(Just IMHO)

Which is why I'd like to see the K0HB proposal get an RM number. WHo knows what
the reaction might be?

(end side note).

A part of that support is based on the anti-BPL fight, too. The argument goes
like this: There are well over 320,000 Tech and Tech-Plus hams out there who
have either no HF/MF (those who haven't passed Element 1) or who have minimal
HF (those who have passed Element 1). Free upgrade to General would endow all
of them with a lot more HF/MF privileges, and hopefully a significant
percentage would set up HF/MF stations and use them - and protest BPL too.

In any event, he simply changed his mind in certain specific instances. Here
are some mo

For years Carl harangued us about "electronic paintball wars" and such,
referring to contests and DX-chasing. Also about "better modes and modulations"
including spread spectrum, appliance operators who have no idea what's behind
the panel, etc., etc.. Another pet peeve was vanity calls - he held on to his
old 2x3 6-land call even though he lives here in EPA.

Then, after the restructuring of 2000, he got his Extra. And a 2x1 vanity call.
And he racked up over 70 countries on HF SSB using a manufactured
transceiver.....

Not that there's anything wrong with any of it. But it sure was surreal to read
about! As you say, Mike - "it's all good".

Mike this is gonna come off a bit weird coming from a hardcore PCTA
but I learned that the Carl is basically an OK kinda guy. I met him
eyeball-to-eyball in the Emmaus PA area when Hare, W3HJ, Carl and I
were chasing BPL signals around that area together. I had dinner with
him and at one point threatened him with a code test which he took in
good humor etc. Today he and I continue to keep in touch on a number
of topics well beyond the code test thing.

Yup.

Gets down to firmly
establishing the fact that, with a few obvious exceptions, perceptions
of the overall characters of RRAPers based only on what they post here
can't be taken seriously.

Some of us are the same online and off, some are very different. There are some
folks I'd love to meet in person and others I'd actively avoid.

And I respond to who I like in the group. occasionally even Lenover21,
when I'm in a puckish mood! ;^)

. . . see above WRT to "obvious exceptions" . . .

bingo.

The guy was blind . . that was the worst of the
worst of the bad experiences I've had in the game. Madonna was right:
It's a material world. Yes, I fear for the future of ham radio.

I did not know that story. Makes me sick.

Oy! Just remember, Karma keeps a bank account, and pays back with
interest! Thank goodness you stopped to help the guy, Brian.

Gawd I was ****ed off at those jerks . . still am . . .

So the future of ham radio relies on those who are really interested
in radio for its own sake and are a lot more than "sort of"
interested. Those folks are out there, and will continue to be. But
they will not be attracted by lowering the requirements or trying to
make ham radio a sort of rf version of the internet.

Wow! That last paragraph is a real keeper, Jim. I may post it in my
shack, WYP of course....

Of course - just put my call at the end.

Jim's 100% on the money.

R R TU OM

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , PAMNO
(mother superior) writes:

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

for cripes sake, the Honcho Maximo of NCI wised up and
bailed out of here long ago leaving us to bicker mindlesssly,
circularly and endlessly with dim lights like Burke and the other
Anderson. WE'RE the RRAP stupids for bothering with any of it
Miccolis.

Who is bothering? I read a few posts, write a few, discuss interesting
topics with KB3EIA, N8UZE, and some others. Filtering what one reads
works wonders.

Carl only got to reap what he sowed.

Carl *used to* be one of the top name-callers, insulters, shouters, and
all-around behave-like-a-two-year-old posters here. Almost but not quite down
to Len Anderson's level of behavior.

Right. I'm the "only one" signing off posts for over a year using a
Yiddish pejorative meaning "penis head?"

I'm the "only one" who has implied opponents are pedophiles and
accusing them of spousal abuse...in addition to being "pathological
liars?"

Of course. Terrible behavior. Gratuitously egregious.

:-)

Mother superior should be aware of Jim Kehler, KH2D, and his
actions in here as one of the ardent (if not virulent) PCTA super
extras and the wonderful "No SSB International."

Mother superior* should be aware of one Eric June who tried to
take over that position in here...Cecil Moore [of the "live and let
live" saying as an NCTA] confounded him at every turn.

[* that is NOT a religious title]

Tsk, tsk, tsk. All that hopping up and down about "rude
behavior!" And to a Lord High God of Radio(telegraphy)!

Maybe you want your congressperson to start a bill to abrogate
all free and independent thought and expression by U.S. citizens
against the morse code test? That ought to end any conflict and
make you oh-so-happy.

"Tension, apprehension, and dissention have begun..." - from
Alfred Bester's "The Demolished Man."

With all the best of kindest regards for your moral superiority,

"Len Over 21" wrote


"Tension, apprehension, and dissention have begun..." - from
Alfred Bester's "The Demolished Man."


Pretensions of literacy?

"Sometime pool-pah exceeds the power of humans to comment." - from Kurt
Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle"

Sunuvugun!*

With all kind wishes,

de Hans, K0HB




* There are only 2 "n"s in sunuvugun.

In article . net, "KØHB"
writes:

"Len Over 21" wrote

"Tension, apprehension, and dissention have begun..." - from
Alfred Bester's "The Demolished Man."

Pretensions of literacy?

Absolutely NO pretense, crusty old sea salt. As a many-times
published author in several different publications, I do have some
literacy background.

Not only that, I was a member of the first, and still surviving,
science fiction club (first worldwide, in fact) just down the street
a bit in North Hollywood. [SFWA] Need directions to get there?

Lots of the writers (not just science fiction) show up there from
time to time. I don't recall Vonnegut ever being there...he isn't
really mainstream SF, more of a literary-review favorite for the
Sunday supplements.

"Tension, apprehension, and dissention have begun..." :-)