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Robert Casey wrote in
: Phil Kane wrote: The questions come out of computer at a speed which is dependent on how fast the applicant is answering them. Scramble the questions and the multi-choice answers so that if one memorizes the "little red book" of all the questions and answers it won't help unless s/he understands and knows the material. The machine keeps feeding questions until it is a guaranteed "pass" or a guaranteed "fail" and then it terminates the exam session. The applicant does not know whether s/he passed or not until the results are sent by mail. Just like the olden days..... Back in 1994 I lived in Oregon for a year. The written driver's test at the DMV was done with a computer with touch screen. I knew how many questions I got wrong, but lost track of how many more I had to complete during the test. Then it told me that I passed and my score, around 92%. Paper tests generated just before the VE session via computer would be cheaper and easier than dedicated hardware like that DMV had anyway. It wouldn't need dedicated hardware - just software |
In article , Mike Coslo writes:
That's the way to do it. By the time, I got my General, I was actually pretty used to HF operation. As a tech, I had operated in some contests that the club participated in, plus a field day. (to the sticklers - yes, with a control op) They tricked me! Got me hooked on contesting, and I had no choice but to upgrade!!! bwaahaahaaa! You've been barracuda'ed. Well they really didn't trick me, but it worked out that way anyhow. (Jacques Cousteau voice ON) ".......ze barracudaz veecteemz often do not reelize zay are veecteemz unteel too late..." (Jacques Cousteau voice OFF) But every time I try out a different mode, I spen weeks listening before I ever transmit. I hope these new people will do the same. This is one thing which has changed radically since I was a newbie. Back in the bad old days, many if not most prospective hams started out with a shortwave rx, listening to other hams on the air. Most of us had many hours of SW listening experience before we ever took a license test. I and many others learned the code by listening to hams use it on the air - no tapes, no software packages, etc. Starting out this way meant we already had some real hands-on experience in operating procedure, propagation, receiver operation and related subjects before we ever got on the air. We also had most of what was needed for a ham shack of that era - receiver, antenna, key, 'phones, and a desk or table to put it on. When the license test was passed, all that was left to do was add the transmitter and T/R system. In my case, I built my first transmitter while waiting for the license to arrive. From what I've read and seen, many newcomers today get the license first, then set about putting a station together. Some did it that way back when, too - and often they were the ones whose Novice licenses ran out before they were ready for the General test. Cart before the horse, IMHO. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
N2EY wrote:
Radio Amateur KC2HMZ wrote in message . .. On 07 Jul 2003 11:11:10 GMT, (N2EY) wrote: some snippage One of the problems with skill testing is that the test has to actually include the skill - it can't be a purely paper test and actually mean anything. (You can't judge my bicycle-riding or stick-shift skills with a written test). And such testing means a separate test element and the same problems that come with the code test. The dropping of the code test will not be accompanied by a significant, sustained increase in growth rate of the ARS. There may be a short term surge, and lots of upgrades, but total numbers will not skyrocket. Seems to me that the outcome, in this regard, is up to us. We have an opportunity to start a significant influx of good operators into the ARS provided we're willing to identify them and elmer them and welcome them into the ranks, so to speak. Those of us who go out of our way to meet these people and convince them to get into the club meetings and the VE sessions, and who answer questions and provide the guidance the newcomers will need and then accept and respect them as fellow hams should, will be taking good advantage of the opportunity. I agree with all of the that - but a lot of it comes down to publicity for the ARS, and the simple fact that most people are not interested in radio as an end in itself. There's a limit to how much we can "sell" amateur radio. The trick is to identify those who are really interested, and help them out. Right. The ARS is simply not for everyone. People who try to make it that way are just spinning their wheels. You need a technical bent, and getting a thrill out of sending a teeny signal across the world helps too. Those of us who spend our time coming up with witty and derogatory names like Extra Lite and insist on distinguishing between No-Code and Know-Code and go out of their way to make people feel like second-class citizens will be letting the opportunity just slide on by and will be doing a disservice to the ARS. Agreed - and I challenge you to find any postings of mine where I have done any of that. I am an Extra lite, I was a No-Code Tech at one time. I'm also a hockey puck and a few other things. Seriously, there isn't anyone around that someone doesn't like, so we just have to work on being less sensitive. I was sitting around a dinner table with some friend hams, and the conversation shifted to licensing. One of the guys noted how "Any moron can become an Extra now." I just chuckled and said, "and I am the proof of that!" He was a bit embarrassed, but I took no offense and made a joke of it. More snippage Yet, how many hams do you know of who have even heard of ALE, outisde of those in this forum where I know the subject has come up previously? How many hams in your local club know what ALE is? How many would be willing to accept and use it if they did? Many of us know what ALE is, and even how it could be used on the amateur bands. The bigger question is - why would hams want to use ALE for normal amateur operation? The whole point of ALE is to reduce/eliminate the need for a knowledgeable operator. In fact, if you look at most nonamateur radio equipment design philosophies, one of the driving forces behind them is to replace the skilled "radio operator" with a relatively unskilled "user", who doesn't really know what's going on - and doesn't have to. Consider the nearly-ubiquitous cell phone - none of the radio-specific functions are controlled by the user at all! In fact, far too many people don't even realize a cell phone is a radio transceiver. (I recall an indignant fellow airline passenger telling me "I can use this while we take off! It's a TELEPHONE, not a RADIO!!") I don't know whether to laugh or cry! snippage again Especially since there will undoubtedly be those who will not welcome them at all, and in fact do quite the opposite. A few. That's not a new thing - ever hear of the fellow who used to call CQ on 75 AM and add "no kids, no lids, no space cadets, Class A operators only"? Radio Amateur KC2HMZ is simply wrong here. And old mister No kids, no lids is just the exception that proves the rule. Most all hams, even those who think that elimination of the Morse code requirement is the beginning of the end of Western civilization, are very welcoming of new people. Sometimes when we think everyone around us is nasty, we need to look to ourselves for the problem. Those of us who wish to take advantage of this opportunity will have to work doubly hard in order to overcome the harm done by the minority that will attempt to ostracize and chase away the newcomers, forgetting that they were newcomers themselves once upon a time. All true. Actually, it doesn't seem like that long ago that I was a newcomer. But there is also the reverse problem: Newcomers who do not want advice or elmering from the "old f@#$S", no matter how it is offered. I've been on the receiving end of that more than a few times. What's the right approach - just ignore them? Eventually, that's all you can do, if the person insists on being nasty. It's also important to remember that that same peron will probably spend time moaning about "those rotten hams". - Mike KB3EIA - |
Larry Roll K3LT wrote: In article , JJ writes: Do you have something against operator skill -- or are you one of those New Age hams that think yakking into a microphone is all the demonstration of operator skill that should ever be required of you? Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW? In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word. L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S. Hams who don't care or "don't want" to learn Morse code are just plain old LAZY. Period. End of Story. Consider yourself to have been grabbed by the collar and beaten with a club called The Truth!!! You are a real piece of work Larry. I haven't worked CW in years, I still could but I just have no desire to talk in code when I can speak very well. Do you use a automobile to get from one distant place to another? You do? That is pure laziness, the "L" word. Why don't you ride a horse, bicycle, or better yet, walk. That is what folks did before the automobile came along. You are just plain old LAZY. You have a long way to go to ever grab me by the collar and you can't handle the truth. End of story. There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do you operate them all? Nope, not all -- but certainly a whole lot more than most hams do. If that is what floats your boat, knock yourself out, but those who choose not to play the ham radio game the same way you do does not mean they are any less of a ham, except to your "I am superior" way of thinking. Why don't you operate all the modes, too lazy? And you know something totally strange? My Morse/CW proficiency doesn't interfere one little bit in my enjoyment of other modes! And you know something even more strange? For many hams, not being as proficient as you claim to be in CW, and/or not operating in that mode does not interfere one little bit with their enjoyment of other modes either, and that includes myself. |
Robert Casey wrote: Back in the early days of my HF career, I figured that if the band seems empty, well either propagation is out or everyone's asleep or at work or such. In any event, there's nobody to qso with, so check other bands. But--- did you listen carefully for any very weak signals on CW? Often that is the clue to what's happening, or about to happen, on an otherwise seemingly dead band. Sometimes when you tune around carefully, listening for any hint of signals, you'll start something - you hear a very weak one, peak him up with your receiver filtering, whatever you have to work with, listen long enough to ID him and where he's located. If he signs off with the station he's working, and you've tuned up, you give him a call. If he's copying as well as you, he answers and suddenly you've turned a dead band into a QSO. More often than not, others will hear you two in QSO and next thing you know they're either calling in tailending you, or calling CQ nearby and drumming up their own contact. When you next tune around, there'll be several QSO's going on on the "dead" band. This scene plays out far more often than you would think, or used to back when HF experienced hams were the norm rather than the exception. Sure is worth trying, anyway. Dick |
JJ wrote: Larry Roll K3LT wrote: Yup -- got it right that time. CW *is* an operator skill. Yes it is. Do you have something against operator skill -- or are you one of those New Age hams that think yakking into a microphone is all the demonstration of operator skill that should ever be required of you? Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW? There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do you operate them all? No more than I have against someone who chooses to do satellite work, while I have to test for it. Rf Safety is required to be calculated for by people when they run over a certain power. Why should someone who never intends to work over 50 watts have to test for RF safety? If someone never intends to homebrew, why should they test on any equations. Sounds like we should maybe make up our own tests. Funny -- nobody has ever been able to "discourage" me from doing anything I wanted to do. I just went ahead and did it. I could care less what other people think, do, The proper phrase is "I could NOT care less what other people think" I could not care less if I could care less. 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
JJ wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: Larry Roll K3LT wrote: Yup -- got it right that time. CW *is* an operator skill. Do you have something against operator skill -- or are you one of those New Age hams that think yakking into a microphone is all the demonstration of operator skill that should ever be required of you? Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW? There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do you operate them all? No more than I have against someone who chooses to do satellite work, while I have to test for it. What if you decide at some later time to do satellite work? Correct! Rf Safety is required to be calculated for by people when they run over a certain power. Why should someone who never intends to work over 50 watts have to test for RF safety? What if they decide at some later point to increase their power? Correct! If someone never intends to homebrew, why should they test on any equations. What is they suddenly get the urge to build a homebrew transmitter or amplifier? Correct! Sounds like we should maybe make up our own tests. Maybe you had rather be call in to be tested on a new mode each time you decide to operate a new mode. Correct! You do know I'm being a devil's advocate here? Or better said, I really believe that an prospective amateur should get as much education as possible. Removing the Morse code requirement, while celebrated by some hams and prospective hams, is not a good thing. They who celebrate this are celebrating advancement of ignorance. - Mike KB3EIA - |
"Arnie Macy" wrote in message ... "Leland C. Scott" wrote ... Are you really that "dense" Arnie where you can't figure it out on your own? 73's de, Leland C. Scott KC8LDO ARRL member NCI member __________________________________________________ ________________ Nope, but anybody who refers to a straight key as a "code key" and sends 73's is. Dah, you mean all those fine southern operators on 75m that claim to have been Hams since the dawn of the dinosaur have it all wrong! Gee I didn't know that. ;-) My favorite group to monitor hangs out around 3950 KHz more or less. One or more of them have even offered to Elmer R.H. on several occasions between beers. -- Leland C. Scott KC8LDO ARRL Member NCI Member Charter member of the Lawrence Technological University Wireless Society W8LTU |
Alun Palmer wrote:
Robert Casey wrote in : Phil Kane wrote: The questions come out of computer at a speed which is dependent on how fast the applicant is answering them. Scramble the questions and the multi-choice answers so that if one memorizes the "little red book" of all the questions and answers it won't help unless s/he understands and knows the material. The machine keeps feeding questions until it is a guaranteed "pass" or a guaranteed "fail" and then it terminates the exam session. The applicant does not know whether s/he passed or not until the results are sent by mail. Just like the olden days..... Back in 1994 I lived in Oregon for a year. The written driver's test at the DMV was done with a computer with touch screen. I knew how many questions I got wrong, but lost track of how many more I had to complete during the test. Then it told me that I passed and my score, around 92%. Paper tests generated just before the VE session via computer would be cheaper and easier than dedicated hardware like that DMV had anyway. It wouldn't need dedicated hardware - just software Whatcha gonna run that software on? - Mike KB3EIA - |
N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes: That's the way to do it. By the time, I got my General, I was actually pretty used to HF operation. As a tech, I had operated in some contests that the club participated in, plus a field day. (to the sticklers - yes, with a control op) They tricked me! Got me hooked on contesting, and I had no choice but to upgrade!!! bwaahaahaaa! You've been barracuda'ed. Well they really didn't trick me, but it worked out that way anyhow. (Jacques Cousteau voice ON) ".......ze barracudaz veecteemz often do not reelize zay are veecteemz unteel too late..." (Jacques Cousteau voice OFF) But every time I try out a different mode, I spen weeks listening before I ever transmit. I hope these new people will do the same. This is one thing which has changed radically since I was a newbie. Back in the bad old days, many if not most prospective hams started out with a shortwave rx, listening to other hams on the air. Most of us had many hours of SW listening experience before we ever took a license test. I and many others learned the code by listening to hams use it on the air - no tapes, no software packages, etc. Starting out this way meant we already had some real hands-on experience in operating procedure, propagation, receiver operation and related subjects before we ever got on the air. We also had most of what was needed for a ham shack of that era - receiver, antenna, key, 'phones, and a desk or table to put it on. When the license test was passed, all that was left to do was add the transmitter and T/R system. In my case, I built my first transmitter while waiting for the license to arrive. From what I've read and seen, many newcomers today get the license first, then set about putting a station together. Some did it that way back when, too - and often they were the ones whose Novice licenses ran out before they were ready for the General test. Cart before the horse, IMHO. It does make for some awkwardness. My own introduction to the ARS came because I thought it might be nice to make use of the local autopatch in support of one of my other hobbies, 4 wheeling. My wife is reasonable about my getting stuck in the woods and having to dig myself out, but she kinda likes to know about the delay. So I got the tech license, and then joined the local club. The guys and gals were great, and invited me to the local shack for a contest, and bam, the rest is history. So I had an unorthodox beginning in the hobby, and my licensing level outraced my operating ability for some time. So it's just my experience that makes me think about the mandatory wait period being a good thing. - Mike KB3EIA - |
In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX"
writes: "Bert Craig" wrote in message et... "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... Existing technicians may choose to utilize their new privileges Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there've been any "new privivleges" confered yet. New privileges if the code requirement is dropped, as mentioned in the thread in the past, and the basic tone of the thread in the first place. If the FCC dumps Element 1 but makes no other changes to the rules, the only folks to get any new privs will be Technicians who have not passed the code test. They would get the same HF privileges as Novices and Techs who have passed the code test. Ironically, most of those privileges are for the use of code. but the dropping of morse code completely is not going to bring up our numbers any more than where we are at right now from a month to month basis. Probably correct. Overall, from what I have seen listed in the N2EY postings, we average about 10,000 new licensees per month on average. WHOA THERE! The number of new ham licenses in the USA has been averaging about 2000 per month for the past year or so, not 10,000. My posts in "ARS License Numbers" show the current totals, not the number of new licenses. Total growth in the 3 years and 3 months since restructuring has been about 10,000 hams. There may be an inrush at first, but for the most part I think it will still flatten back out to the average 10,000 per month growth. That is of course if nothing is done in regards to promotion outside of the ham ranks more than is being done now. There's a big difference between the number of new hams and the amount of growth, because of expirations. Growth in the past 3+ years has been about 300 per month, not 10,000. 10,000 per month growth since restructuring would mean we'd be well over a million US hams by now. "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , (Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes: Once the official FCC changes are made, by whatever method, I wonder how long it will take the unlicensed to become licensed...Now that there's NO excuse remaining? There's always an excuse, Steve. Here's and interesting query...and probabbly a tad trollish, but I wonder... How long (or short, actually) will it take for many of the No-code Techs that used to proclaim that their VHF and up allocation was all they wanted because it completely satisfied their "technical" needs to suddenly become Generals and Extras. I seem to remember reading how they could pass Element 1 if they wanted to but it would gain them nothing. I wonder if that's changed? I imagine, (IMHO) that some may elect to use them, some may not. My crystal ball is a little fuzzy on this one. I know it will be a few years before I could, regardless of what happens. Exactly the case for many folks. There are three reasons for folks in that situation to upgrade: 1) To nail down a vanity call that they want before somebody else gets it 2) To be able to be a VE or control op without having to worry about privs. 3) To have the license in hand so that when their situation changes, they can take advantage of it. Example: the ham living in an apartment with no HF setup may someday get a big raise and move to their dream shack. If they have the license in hand, they'll be able to use it immediately. Back in the bad old days I got my Extra for a couple of reasons: - I wanted all privileges - it was there - it was easier and cheaper to get the license than to build or buy a calibrator that could tell me where the subband edges were - I figured that the requirements would just keep getting tougher, so the thing to do was get it ASAP. 73 de Jim, N2EY 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Alun Palmer wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in : Alun Palmer wrote: Robert Casey wrote in : Phil Kane wrote: The questions come out of computer at a speed which is dependent on how fast the applicant is answering them. Scramble the questions and the multi-choice answers so that if one memorizes the "little red book" of all the questions and answers it won't help unless s/he understands and knows the material. The machine keeps feeding questions until it is a guaranteed "pass" or a guaranteed "fail" and then it terminates the exam session. The applicant does not know whether s/he passed or not until the results are sent by mail. Just like the olden days..... Back in 1994 I lived in Oregon for a year. The written driver's test at the DMV was done with a computer with touch screen. I knew how many questions I got wrong, but lost track of how many more I had to complete during the test. Then it told me that I passed and my score, around 92%. Paper tests generated just before the VE session via computer would be cheaper and easier than dedicated hardware like that DMV had anyway. It wouldn't need dedicated hardware - just software Whatcha gonna run that software on? - Mike KB3EIA - Any old PC Whose PC Alun? One of the test sessions I was at had at least 30 people in it. Who is going to pay for those PC's? Will a VE have to supply his or her own PC for other people to use? Maybe have to buy several to allow everyone to test? - Mike KB3EIA - |
In article , JJ
writes: Do you have something against operator skill -- or are you one of those New Age hams that think yakking into a microphone is all the demonstration of operator skill that should ever be required of you? Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW? In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word. L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S. Hams who don't care or "don't want" to learn Morse code are just plain old LAZY. Period. End of Story. Consider yourself to have been grabbed by the collar and beaten with a club called The Truth!!! There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do you operate them all? Nope, not all -- but certainly a whole lot more than most hams do. And you know something totally strange? My Morse/CW proficiency doesn't interfere one little bit in my enjoyment of other modes! Funny -- nobody has ever been able to "discourage" me from doing anything I wanted to do. I just went ahead and did it. I could care less what other people think, do, The proper phrase is "I could NOT care less what other people think" Only if I couldn't care less -- and I can! Like right now! 73 de Larry, K3LT |
Mike Coslo wrote in
: Alun Palmer wrote: Mike Coslo wrote in : Alun Palmer wrote: Robert Casey wrote in : Phil Kane wrote: The questions come out of computer at a speed which is dependent on how fast the applicant is answering them. Scramble the questions and the multi-choice answers so that if one memorizes the "little red book" of all the questions and answers it won't help unless s/he understands and knows the material. The machine keeps feeding questions until it is a guaranteed "pass" or a guaranteed "fail" and then it terminates the exam session. The applicant does not know whether s/he passed or not until the results are sent by mail. Just like the olden days..... Back in 1994 I lived in Oregon for a year. The written driver's test at the DMV was done with a computer with touch screen. I knew how many questions I got wrong, but lost track of how many more I had to complete during the test. Then it told me that I passed and my score, around 92%. Paper tests generated just before the VE session via computer would be cheaper and easier than dedicated hardware like that DMV had anyway. It wouldn't need dedicated hardware - just software Whatcha gonna run that software on? - Mike KB3EIA - Any old PC Whose PC Alun? One of the test sessions I was at had at least 30 people in it. Who is going to pay for those PC's? Will a VE have to supply his or her own PC for other people to use? Maybe have to buy several to allow everyone to test? - Mike KB3EIA - Point taken. Maybe buy some cheap PCs from the Goodwill store and run Linux on them? Write something in a portable interpreted language like Tcl/Tk so it will run unchanged on Windows/MacOS/Linux/Unix. Hard to scale up for large sessions, though, isn't it. |
"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message ... In article , JJ writes: Do you have something against operator skill -- or are you one of those New Age hams that think yakking into a microphone is all the demonstration of operator skill that should ever be required of you? Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW? In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word. L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S. Yes sir, guess my lack of desire to play golf can best be attributed to a lack of willingness to break my inertia and get down to learing it. Just my basic laziness I guess...nothing at all involving there's any personal choice, like or dislike involved. Same ole Larry :-) Cheers, Bill K2UNK Hams who don't care or "don't want" to learn Morse code are just plain old LAZY. Period. End of Story. Consider yourself to have been grabbed by the collar and beaten with a club called The Truth!!! There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do you operate them all? Nope, not all -- but certainly a whole lot more than most hams do. And you know something totally strange? My Morse/CW proficiency doesn't interfere one little bit in my enjoyment of other modes! Funny -- nobody has ever been able to "discourage" me from doing anything I wanted to do. I just went ahead and did it. I could care less what other people think, do, The proper phrase is "I could NOT care less what other people think" Only if I couldn't care less -- and I can! Like right now! 73 de Larry, K3LT |
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"Leland C. Scott" wrote ...
Dah, you mean all those fine southern operators on 75m that claim to have been Hams since the dawn of the dinosaur have it all wrong! Gee I didn't know that. ;-) My favorite group to monitor hangs out around 3950 KHz more or less. One or more of them have even offered to Elmer R.H. on several occasions between beers. __________________________________________________ __________________________ __ I don't hang out anywhere near 3950, Leland. But if you come on over to 3593 at around 7 EDT(Georgia State Traffic Net), you will more than likely hear me. But, don't hold your breath waiting on someone referring to a "code key" or sending 73's. You'll be waiting a very long time. 73, Arnie - KT4ST "QSL nr 218 es 73 de KT4ST" |
N2EY wrote: Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW? There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do you operate them all? No - do you? No, I certainly do not. If someone wants to only operate cw, only ssb, only 2 meter FM, then fine, and they are just as much a ham as someone who operates multiple modes. And I certainly do not look down my nose and take a superior attitude toward those who might choose to limit their operating to one mode like others here on the group. |
Larry Roll K3LT wrote:
In article , JJ writes: Do you have something against operator skill -- or are you one of those New Age hams that think yakking into a microphone is all the demonstration of operator skill that should ever be required of you? Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW? In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word. L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S. Hams who don't care or "don't want" to learn Morse code are just plain old LAZY. Period. End of Story. Consider yourself to have been grabbed by the collar and beaten with a club called The Truth!!! Strongly put, but strongly accurate... There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do you operate them all? Nope, not all -- but certainly a whole lot more than most hams do. And you know something totally strange? My Morse/CW proficiency doesn't interfere one little bit in my enjoyment of other modes! Right there is exactly what I was talking about a few threads ago. Nothing is lost by learning Morse Code. Why some people seem to think that learning Morse code will make them forget something else is beyond me. The one exception to that is learning to make wine or beer, and then only when you drink the results. - Mike KB3EIA - |
JJ wrote:
Larry Roll K3LT wrote: In article , JJ writes: Do you have something against operator skill -- or are you one of those New Age hams that think yakking into a microphone is all the demonstration of operator skill that should ever be required of you? Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW? In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word. L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S. Hams who don't care or "don't want" to learn Morse code are just plain old LAZY. Period. End of Story. Consider yourself to have been grabbed by the collar and beaten with a club called The Truth!!! You are a real piece of work Larry. I haven't worked CW in years, I still could but I just have no desire to talk in code when I can speak very well. Do you use a automobile to get from one distant place to another? You do? That is pure laziness, the "L" word. Why don't you ride a horse, bicycle, or better yet, walk. That is what folks did before the automobile came along. You are just plain old LAZY. You have a long way to go to ever grab me by the collar and you can't handle the truth. End of story. You'll need a better argument than this JJ. I use an automobile, I know how to ride a horse properly, bicycle occasionally and I walk quite a bit. And laziness doesn't enter into the equation. If you are trying to equate transport modes with ARS modes, you simply use the one that is appropriate at the moment. - Mike KB3EIA - |
Dick Carroll wrote: Robert Casey wrote: Back in the early days of my HF career, I figured that if the band seems empty, well either propagation is out or everyone's asleep or at work or such. In any event, there's nobody to qso with, so check other bands. But--- did you listen carefully for any very weak signals on CW? Often that is the clue to what's happening, or about to happen, on an otherwise seemingly dead band. Sometimes when you tune around carefully, listening for any hint of signals, you'll start something - you hear a very weak one, peak him up with your receiver filtering, whatever you have to work with, listen long enough to ID him and where he's located. If he signs off with the station he's working, and you've tuned up, you give him a call. If he's copying as well as you, he answers and suddenly you've turned a dead band into a QSO. More often than not, others will hear you two in QSO and next thing you know they're either calling in tailending you, or calling CQ nearby and drumming up their own contact. When you next tune around, there'll be several QSO's going on on the "dead" band. This scene plays out far more often than you would think, or used to back when HF experienced hams were the norm rather than the exception. Sure is worth trying, anyway. Dick One more hint-some of the best DX contacts I've ever had occurred when I called CQ on a "dead" band. You get to work the rare one who answers without the "benefit" of the hounds, no pileup, no QRM, at least until enough others hear you working him to draw a crowd. |
Bill Sohl wrote: .. So how come the other services abondoned morse as such a valuable back-up? Cheers, Bill K2UNK I am sure the Coast Guard and Navy are trembling in their boots that the day will come when the only thing they may have to rely on is CW and no one will have the skill. The other services realized that CW has been outmoded for communications for some time and finally gave it up. For hams it is just another mode to communicate and those who like that mode will learn it whether it is required or not. Don't set on the edge of your chair Larry and Dick, anticipating the day when you and your code skills are going to be the only thing to save the day. With all the different types of coms available today, it ain't going to happen. CW is outdated, but it will be a part of ham radio for some time to come just because of the tradition, but that is the only importance CW can hold in ham radio, tradition. |
"Dick Carroll" wrote ...
The question, obviously, is "How's he gonna know it's you???" __________________________________________________ _____________ Dick, I thought about saying just that. At our typical net speed of around 20wpm, I seriously doubt he would pick up more than a letter or two every minute. 73, Arnie - KT4ST |
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:20:17 GMT, Dick Carroll
wrote: No, I certainly do not. If someone wants to only operate cw, only ssb, only 2 meter FM, then fine, and they are just as much a ham as someone who operates multiple modes. So a ham who operates all modes except that he cannot operate radiotlegraphy because he doewn't know Morse code, is just as well qualified as a ham who operates all those and also can operate radiotelegraphy. Surely you can understand the fallacy of your own argument, all other considerations aside. The question becomes, qualified to do what? The fact that I do not have a license to drive a motorcycle does not make me any less qualified to drive a car. Similarly, the fact that I choose not to operate in CW purely out of personal preference makes me no less qualified to operate phone, packet, PSK31, etc. 73 DE John, KC2HMZ |
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On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:19:38 -0400, "Bill Sohl"
wrote: In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word. L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S. Hams who don't care or "don't want" to learn Morse code are just plain old LAZY. Period. End of Story. Consider yourself to have been grabbed by the collar and beaten with a club called The Truth!!! Yes sir, guess my lack of desire to play golf can best be attributed to a lack of willingness to break my inertia and get down to learing it. Just my basic laziness I guess...nothing at all involving there's any personal choice, like or dislike involved. Same ole Larry :-) No, Bill - it's the fact that you couldn't find that club called The Truth in your golf bag...even though you left it right there between the three wood and the sand wedge. ;-) 73 DE John, KC2HMZ |
JJ wrote: N2EY wrote: Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW? There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do you operate them all? No - do you? No, I certainly do not. If someone wants to only operate cw, only ssb, only 2 meter FM, then fine, and they are just as much a ham as someone who operates multiple modes. So a ham who operates all modes except that he cannot operate radiotlegraphy because he doewn't know Morse code, is just as well qualified as a ham who operates all those and also can operate radiotelegraphy. Surely you can understand the fallacy of your own argument, all other considerations aside. |
In article , "Bill Sohl"
writes: In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word. L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S. Yes sir, guess my lack of desire to play golf can best be attributed to a lack of willingness to break my inertia and get down to learing it. Just my basic laziness I guess...nothing at all involving there's any personal choice, like or dislike involved. Same ole Larry :-) Cheers, Bill K2UNK Bill: Nice try, but not quite the same thing. A prospective ham not wanting to learn and/or use the Morse code is like a prospective golfer not wanting to learn how to putt, because all he wants to do is drive golf balls for distance. Well, even I can drive a bucket balls at the range to kill an afternoon, but I'd never call myself a "golfer." Morse/CW is an essential communications skill for anyone who is going to consider him/herself to be an effective amateur radio operator. This is the one skill which gives them the ability to keep on communicating under adverse conditions that put an end to communication using less robust or more equipment and electrical capacity-dependent modes. It gives us the ultimate in emergency backup communications capability, which is ever-so important and politically-correct for hams these days. 73 de Larry, K3LT |
"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
... It is a plain fact that future hams who do not face a code tesing requirement for licensing are going to be less capable communicators than myself and others who did. The only thing that got me into the use of the Morse/CW mode was the requirement to learn it. It made me a better ham in every respect. The New Age non-code tested hams will be inferior for the lack of this requirement. So, it's your blatant disregard for the possibility that "future hams" will be quite interested in CW and will learn the mode just because they *WANTED* to and not because it was required? You didn't learn CW because you wanted to but because you had to. So, what're you gonna say to those who will obviously be a better ham than you because they learned CW out of wanting to, not needing to? Kim W5TIT --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net Complaints to |
"Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... JJ wrote: N2EY wrote: Do you have something against someone who has no desire to operate CW? There are many different modes of operation in ham radio, do you operate them all? No - do you? No, I certainly do not. If someone wants to only operate cw, only ssb, only 2 meter FM, then fine, and they are just as much a ham as someone who operates multiple modes. So a ham who operates all modes except that he cannot operate radiotlegraphy because he doewn't know Morse code, is just as well qualified as a ham who operates all those and also can operate radiotelegraphy. Surely you can understand the fallacy of your own argument, all other considerations aside. Of course there is a fallacy since "operate" gives no indication as to actual level of expertise, the ham who operates all modes except CW could well be far more qualified then the ham who operates all modes including CW. For the record, the opposite could also be true and they might actually be equally qualified. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message ... In article , "Bill Sohl" writes: In a way, I do -- because their lack of desire to operate CW is usually based on a lack of willingness to break their inertia and get down to learning it. It's called laziness. Yup, that's right -- the "L" word. L-A-Z-I-N-E-S-S. Yes sir, guess my lack of desire to play golf can best be attributed to a lack of willingness to break my inertia and get down to learing it. Just my basic laziness I guess...nothing at all involving there's any personal choice, like or dislike involved. Same ole Larry :-) Cheers, Bill K2UNK Bill: Nice try, but not quite the same thing. A prospective ham not wanting to learn and/or use the Morse code is like a prospective golfer not wanting to learn how to putt, because all he wants to do is drive golf balls for distance. Well, even I can drive a bucket balls at the range to kill an afternoon, but I'd never call myself a "golfer." Morse/CW is an essential communications skill for anyone who is going to consider him/herself to be an effective amateur radio operator. So you will claim tillhell freezes over I assume. Only problem is, your claim failed at the only place that counts...the FCC. This is the one skill which gives them the ability to keep on communicating under adverse conditions that put an end to communication using less robust or more equipment and electrical capacity-dependent modes. It gives us the ultimate in emergency backup communications capability, which is ever-so important and politically-correct for hams these days. So how come the other services abondoned morse as such a valuable back-up? Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
Bill Sohl wrote:
So how come the other services abondoned morse as such a valuable back-up? One big reason is that they can then use a not-so-skilled operator. - Mike KB3EIA - |
Wish more people thought that way about 6 meters!
-- Ryan, KC8PMX FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!) --. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-. ... --. .... - . .-. ... One more hint-some of the best DX contacts I've ever had occurred when I called CQ on a "dead" band. You get to work the rare one who answers without the "benefit" of the hounds, no pileup, no QRM, at least until enough others hear you working him to draw a crowd. |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... You mean like the folks who look down their noses at me because I operate mostly CW? 73 de Jim, N2EY Jim, WHO looks down their noses at yhou because you operate mostly CW? (certainly not me ...) 73, Carl - wk3c |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote: "N2EY" wrote in message ... You mean like the folks who look down their noses at me because I operate mostly CW? 73 de Jim, N2EY Jim, WHO looks down their noses at yhou because you operate mostly CW? (certainly not me ...) 73, Carl - wk3c Ah do believe Google could show otherwise. |
Larry Roll K3LT wrote: Again, follow the money and you'll learn the truth. The cost of hiring, training, and providing pay and benefits to CW-proficient radio operators is the key factor in play here. BS, the services realized that with modern technology CW is an outdated, antiquated mode, no longer useful to them. You are living in your ham radio dream world too stubborn to see the truth. |
Larry Roll K3LT wrote: True -- when the "emergency" is confined to a small locality and the VHF/ UHF repeater infrastructure remains intact. However, what if there is a widespread disaster -- such as the "Big One" striking the San Andreas fault line in California? That will not be a "local" disaster -- it will affect the entire country. Vast regions hundreds of miles in radius will be affected, and the commercial communications and existing Amateur Radio infrastructures and the power grids they depend on will be disrupted for God only knows how long. At that point, we could be talking about areas with populations of hundreds of thousands of people being out of communication with the area "outside" the disaster zone. Communications nets spanning many times the normal operational range of terresterial VHF/UHF systems will be necessary -- and don't look now, but we're coming to the downside of the solar cycle -- meaning poor propagation. I guarantee you that there will be lots of opportunities for No-Code HF Ham Heroes to help out, but when conditions dictate the use of CW, in order to be able to communicate when voice and data modes fail due to lack of available electrical power or poor atmospherics, that capability will not be available because it will not have been learned. That's when some guy like me will enter the picture, and say, "Step aside, Sonny, and take your toy microphone with you." Then he'll plug in his key and re-establish contact with the outside world. Of course, you will never be convinced that that could happen -- so you'll just have to hope it doesn't. In the meantime, I'll be ready! John, you have to realize that Larry and his huge ego are just waiting for the above scenario to happen so he can "save the world" with his CW skills. He is in complete denial that when this big disaster happens, he and his CW skills will mean nothing. I can just see him waving his code key shouting "I can save the day with my CW" at the officials who will laugh their ass off at him. Read his "step aside Sonny" above and the picture of Larry and his ego becomes very clear. I have been a ham for over forty years, have participated in many disaster situations, and I have never seen conditions where CW was the only means of communication that would get through, even at the bottom of the solar cycles. Guys like Larry live in a "I am superior to you because of my CW skills" dream world. |
Larry Roll K3LT wrote: In article , JJ writes: Larry Roll K3LT wrote: Well, on behalf of my colleague Dick (that's MISTER Carroll to you, BOY!) it's nice to know that we're providing a much needed service to the ARS! 73 de Larry, K3LT Anyone ever tell you what a pompous ass you really are Larry? That's MISTER JJ to you little BOY!! |
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