"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
y.com...

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
Yep, As I was aware of that. And I never expected them to change for me
at
the last minute. BUT, I do believe that with enough warning ahead of
time
it should be considered more than fair for a VE team to make an
adjustment.
It should be no problem for a VEC to be able to send via code practice
oscillator!!!!!! Wouldn't that be a shame if the VEC's have become so
lazy
they can't even send a code test via a key because they are relying on
the
code CD's and tapes.

Where the hell did you think I expected to walk into a test session in
the
past, and at the last possible moment expect a major change?

They are supposed to make those provisions. If they did not, they were in
the wrong. However, I would not favor them using hand sent code with an
oscillator for two reasons. 1) Oscillators are often not adjustable in
pitch. 2) Some people who copy quite well have absolutely lousy fists and
do not send good clean code. It takes a pretty good op to copy some of
the
people out there.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


And the fluctuation in CW skills is yet another reason to question its
validity as a testing element.

Kim W5TIT


---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
y.com...

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
Yep, As I was aware of that. And I never expected them to change for
me
at
the last minute. BUT, I do believe that with enough warning ahead of
time
it should be considered more than fair for a VE team to make an
adjustment.
It should be no problem for a VEC to be able to send via code practice
oscillator!!!!!! Wouldn't that be a shame if the VEC's have become so
lazy
they can't even send a code test via a key because they are relying on
the
code CD's and tapes.

Where the hell did you think I expected to walk into a test session in
the
past, and at the last possible moment expect a major change?

They are supposed to make those provisions. If they did not, they were
in
the wrong. However, I would not favor them using hand sent code with an
oscillator for two reasons. 1) Oscillators are often not adjustable in
pitch. 2) Some people who copy quite well have absolutely lousy fists
and
do not send good clean code. It takes a pretty good op to copy some of
the
people out there.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


And the fluctuation in CW skills is yet another reason to question its
validity as a testing element.

Kim W5TIT

That's false logic. One could apply the same to the variation in all other
ham radio knowledge.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
y.com...

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
y.com...

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
Yep, As I was aware of that. And I never expected them to change
for
me
at
the last minute. BUT, I do believe that with enough warning ahead
of
time
it should be considered more than fair for a VE team to make an
adjustment.
It should be no problem for a VEC to be able to send via code
practice
oscillator!!!!!! Wouldn't that be a shame if the VEC's have become
so
lazy
they can't even send a code test via a key because they are relying
on
the
code CD's and tapes.

Where the hell did you think I expected to walk into a test session
in
the
past, and at the last possible moment expect a major change?

They are supposed to make those provisions. If they did not, they
were
in
the wrong. However, I would not favor them using hand sent code with
an
oscillator for two reasons. 1) Oscillators are often not adjustable
in
pitch. 2) Some people who copy quite well have absolutely lousy fists
and
do not send good clean code. It takes a pretty good op to copy some
of
the
people out there.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


And the fluctuation in CW skills is yet another reason to question its
validity as a testing element.

Kim W5TIT

That's false logic. One could apply the same to the variation in all
other
ham radio knowledge.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Exactly. Except that the written tests, by virtue of their being only one
right answer that has already been chosen to be the right one, is much more
stable. Yes, sometimes the right answer isn't so right. BUT, by virtue of
agreeing to take the test you have studied for, you are agreeing that the
right answers are right.

By your observation above, the CW test is dependent on tone quality, morse
style, etc. It is not a very stable test environment.

Kim W5TIT

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
y.com...

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
y.com...

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
Yep, As I was aware of that. And I never expected them to change
for
me
at
the last minute. BUT, I do believe that with enough warning ahead
of
time
it should be considered more than fair for a VE team to make an
adjustment.
It should be no problem for a VEC to be able to send via code
practice
oscillator!!!!!! Wouldn't that be a shame if the VEC's have
become
so
lazy
they can't even send a code test via a key because they are
relying
on
the
code CD's and tapes.

Where the hell did you think I expected to walk into a test
session
in
the
past, and at the last possible moment expect a major change?

They are supposed to make those provisions. If they did not, they
were
in
the wrong. However, I would not favor them using hand sent code
with
an
oscillator for two reasons. 1) Oscillators are often not
adjustable
in
pitch. 2) Some people who copy quite well have absolutely lousy
fists
and
do not send good clean code. It takes a pretty good op to copy some
of
the
people out there.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


And the fluctuation in CW skills is yet another reason to question its
validity as a testing element.

Kim W5TIT

That's false logic. One could apply the same to the variation in all
other
ham radio knowledge.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Exactly. Except that the written tests, by virtue of their being only one
right answer that has already been chosen to be the right one, is much
more
stable. Yes, sometimes the right answer isn't so right. BUT, by virtue
of
agreeing to take the test you have studied for, you are agreeing that the
right answers are right.

By your observation above, the CW test is dependent on tone quality, morse
style, etc. It is not a very stable test environment.

Kim W5TIT



Again your logic is faulty. The code test administration environment is
stable. The pitch is predefined. The speed is predefined. The tapes or
CDs are made using computer generated code, thus all the spacing is correct
and stable. In other words, at the test, one is listening to perfect code
and then there is only one right answer. It is even more perfect than the
written tests since some of those answers are a bit if you've actually
studied and learned the theory rather than memorizing questions and answers.

In both instances, code and written, the person is to pass the test and then
improve their abilities in the real world.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
y.com...

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...

By your observation above, the CW test is dependent on tone quality,
morse
style, etc. It is not a very stable test environment.

Kim W5TIT



Again your logic is faulty. The code test administration environment is
stable. The pitch is predefined. The speed is predefined. The tapes or
CDs are made using computer generated code, thus all the spacing is
correct
and stable. In other words, at the test, one is listening to perfect code
and then there is only one right answer. It is even more perfect than the
written tests since some of those answers are a bit if you've actually
studied and learned the theory rather than memorizing questions and
answers.

In both instances, code and written, the person is to pass the test and
then
improve their abilities in the real world.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


I've sat for more than a few CW tests. And, I've known people who have the
same experience as I. It's been different every time. It depends upon the
VE team and how they like to administer the test. I don't know what logic
has to do with it; but whatever.

Kim W5TIT


---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to

In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes:

Exactly. Except that the written tests, by virtue of their being only one
right answer that has already been chosen to be the right one, is much more
stable. Yes, sometimes the right answer isn't so right. BUT, by virtue of
agreeing to take the test you have studied for, you are agreeing that the
right answers are right.

By your observation above, the CW test is dependent on tone quality, morse
style, etc. It is not a very stable test environment.

Not at all!

The accomodations available in the code test are similar to accomodations
available in the written test. For example, if someone has limited vision, the
written might be printed in large plain easy-to-read text like 48 point Arial
rather than 10 point Times New Roman. Blind people might take the test in
Braille or aurally. People with limited mobility might use various devices to
fill out the answer sheet, or verbalize their answers rather than writing them.


Because the written tests are not timed, a written test can take anywhere from
a few minutes to hours.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On 02 Aug 2003 20:21:11 GMT, N2EY wrote:

People with limited mobility might use various devices to
fill out the answer sheet, or verbalize their answers rather
than writing them.

Do you mean "oral"? "Verbal" includes both "written" and "oral".
The opposite of "verbal" is "graphic".

We get that trick question in the first hour, first day of Law
School Contracts I regarding what's not worth the paper it's not
written on (which is not true - except in specific instances where
the law requires that a contract be in writing, an oral contract can
be as enforceable as a written contract).

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

In article , "Phil Kane"
writes:

On 02 Aug 2003 20:21:11 GMT, N2EY wrote:

People with limited mobility might use various devices to
fill out the answer sheet, or verbalize their answers rather
than writing them.

Do you mean "oral"?

DOH!!!!

"Verbal" includes both "written" and "oral".
The opposite of "verbal" is "graphic".

We get that trick question in the first hour, first day of Law
School Contracts I regarding what's not worth the paper it's not
written on (which is not true - except in specific instances where
the law requires that a contract be in writing, an oral contract can
be as enforceable as a written contract).

HAW! My bad!

Perfect example of why legal stuff is written the way it is, rather than in
'plain English regular people can understand'. Of course the fact that 'regular
people' can understand the same 'plain English' sentence several different
conflicting ways is conveniently forgotten.

Point is, there are plenty of accomodations possible for both the written and
code tests.

--

Phil has probably seen this many times, but for the rest of us:

From the book "Disorder in the Court":

Last one is the corker

73 de Jim, N2EY
________________________________________
Q: What is your date of birth?
A: July fifteenth.
Q: What year?
A: Every year
_______________________________________
Q: What gear were you in at moment of the impact?
A: Gucci sweats and Reeboks.
_________________________________________
Q: This myasthenia gravis, does it affect your memory at all?
A: Yes.
Q: And in what ways does it affect your memory?
A: I forget.
Q: You forget. Can you give us an example of something you've forgotten?
__________________________________________
Q: How old is your son, the one living with you.
A: Thirty-eight or thirty-five, I can't remember which.
Q: How long has he lived with you?
A: Forty-five years.
_________________________________________
Q: What was the first thing your husband said to you when he woke up that
morning?
A: He said, "Where am I, Cathy?"
Q: And why did that upset you?
A: My name is Susan.
_________________________________________
Q: And where was the location of the accident?
A: Approximately milepost 499.
Q: And where is milepost 499?
A: Probably between milepost 498 and 500.
_________________________________________
Q: Sir, what is your IQ?
A: Well, I can see pretty well, I think.
_________________________________________
Q: Did you blow your horn or anything?
A: After the accident?
Q: Before the accident.
A: Sure, I played for 10 years. I even went to school for it.
_________________________________________
Q: Trooper, when you -stopped the defendant, were your red and blue lights
flashing?
A: Yes.
Q: Did the defendant say anything when she got out of her car?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What did she say?
A: "What disco am I at?"
_________________________________________
Q: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn't
know about it until the next morning?
_________________________________________
Q: The youngest son, the 20-year old, how old is he?
_________________________________________
Q: Were you present when your picture was taken?
_________________________________________
Q: So the date of conception of (the baby) was August 8th?
A: Yes.
Q: And what were you doing at that time?
_________________________________________
Q: She had three children, right?
A: Yes.
Q: How many were boys?
A: None.
Q: Were there any girls?
_________________________________________
Q: You say the stairs went down to the basement?
A: Yes.
Q: And these stairs, did they go up also?
_________________________________________
Q: How was your first marriage terminated?
A: By death.
Q: And by whose death was it terminated?
_________________________________________
Q: Can you describe the individual?
A: He was about medium height and had a beard.
Q: Was this a male or a female?
_________________________________________
Q: Is your appearance here this morning pursuant to a deposition notice that I
sent to your attorney?
A: No, this is how I dress when I go to work.
_________________________________________
Q: Doctor, how many autopsies have you performed on dead people?
A: All my autopsies are performed on dead people.
_________________________________________
Q: All your responses must be oral, OK?
What school did you go to?
A: Oral.
_________________________________________