"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:

I see. Now telling the truth about the
dumbed-down, technically-disinclined,
skills-challenged individuals now being
attracted to ham radio is considered to
be "hateful rhetoric." Typical liberal
response. Yawn! Nothing new here!


Larry, you really need to get off the "liberal" nonsense. Your attitudes
about code are more liberal than most and your attitudes towards others are
more akin to that of the deep woods redneck than that of a conservative.

Your desire for government protection of code testing to maintain your
delusions of status is not unlike the liberal seeking protection for welfare
state-like government benefits for other situations.

And, if you don't know what a deep woods redneck is (a deep woods redneck
is not the typical redneck), and how their attitudes are similar to yours,
watch the movie "Deliverance."


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

In article , Dwight Stewart
writes:


"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:

I see. Now telling the truth about the
dumbed-down, technically-disinclined,
skills-challenged individuals now being
attracted to ham radio is considered to
be "hateful rhetoric." Typical liberal
response. Yawn! Nothing new here!


Larry, you really need to get off the "liberal" nonsense. Your attitudes
about code are more liberal than most and your attitudes towards others are
more akin to that of the deep woods redneck than that of a conservative.

Dwight:

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about. Liberals want to
have the world handed to them on a silver platter, without having to
work to earn their own way. This is the perfect description of the NCTA --
they want full HF privileges, without being bothered to learn a useful
communications skill like the Morse code. Therefore, they whine about
the code testing requirements, making all their usual strawman
arguments about the code being "obsolete" yada, yada, yada, ad
nauseum, and they've finally been accommodated by the Liberal Elite
at the ARRL and the FCC, who wish not to offend anyone by maintaining
anything like traditional, high standards.

Your desire for government protection of code testing to maintain your
delusions of status is not unlike the liberal seeking protection for welfare
state-like government benefits for other situations.

I'm not an anarchist, Dwight. I believe that government has a role in our
society, and maintaining standards in the ARS, an activity in which
citizens are given the privilege of making use of the valuable and finate
resource known as the RF spectrum, makes sense to me. The
"government protection" whine is just another NCTA strawman. I prefer
to think of it as the government "protecting" the whole ARS, not just
the Morse code and it's testing requirement. This is a valid and
essential role for the government, but one which will undoubtedly be
dropped simply for the convenience of the bureaucrats involved.

And, if you don't know what a deep woods redneck is (a deep woods redneck
is not the typical redneck), and how their attitudes are similar to yours,
watch the movie "Deliverance."

I have been referred to as a "Yankee Redneck," and that is a term which
I feel is probably closer to the truth. Yankees are strong-willed,
independent,
and opinionated people. "Rednecks," of any region, are usually tough,
self-reliant, moral and decent people. Therefore, I'll accept this
description,
while taking exception to the "Deep Woods" angle, since I have all of my
teeth, don't drink homemade corn liquor, and don't have intimate relations
with first cousins. If any of these were true, then I'd be residing in Sussex
County, Delaware, and not Kent County, which is where I live.

73 de Larry, K3LT

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:

Dwight Stewart writes:

Larry, you really need to get off the "liberal"
nonsense. Your attitudes about code are more
liberal than most and your attitudes towards others
are more akin to that of the deep woods redneck
than that of a conservative.

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.
Liberals want to have the world handed to them on a
silver platter, without having to work to earn their
own way. This is the perfect description of the
NCTA -- they want full HF privileges, without being
bothered to learn a useful communications skill like
the Morse code. (snip)


And conservatives want to end big government. More specifically,
conservatives want to end unnecessary government rules which exist only to
benefit the interests of a certain special interest group. While you and
your ilk (a special interest group) have an interest in maintaining code
testing to reinforce your self-perceived status, code testing itself is
unnecessary today for anything outside that. Therefore, those seeking to end
code testing are more compatible with conservative views, while those
seeking to maintain code testing to reinforce status are more compatible
with liberal views.


I'm not an anarchist, Dwight. I believe that
government has a role in our society, and
maintaining standards in the ARS, an activity
in which citizens are given the privilege of
making use of the valuable and finate resource
known as the RF spectrum, makes sense to me.


Well, that's big of you. The question now is which standards (necessary or
unnecessary), which you answer in the next few sentences.


The "government protection" whine is just
another NCTA strawman. I prefer to think of
it as the government "protecting" the whole ARS,
not just the Morse code and it's testing
requirement. (snip)


Then you support unnecessary government requirements. Code testing serves
no real purpose today, either as a means of insuring communications support
to those outside Ham Radio or as a means to keep riff-raft out of Ham Radio
(you were able to get in). As such, it exists solely to maintain your own
delusions of status and I don't think the government should be maintaining
rules just so you can help yourself feel important.


(snip) "Rednecks," of any region, are usually tough,
self-reliant, moral and decent people. (snip)


You fail that test in many ways. A redneck doesn't need government rules
to be "self-reliant" and your attitudes towards others are certainly not
"decent" or "moral." And, based on your old web page pictures, you clearly
don't look that tough. So, failing that test, we have to look elsewhere for
someone similar to you. And, looking solely at attitudes towards others,
only the deep woods redneck springs to mind.

These people (deep woods rednecks) don't like anybody outside kin or clan,
and just barely, though not always, tolerate neighbors. Does this sound
familiar, Larry? I don't know what you do with your kin, so I won't go
there. However, speaking solely of Ham Radio, you don't like anyone outside
your pro-code testing clan, and just barely, though not always, tolerate
those outside the code testing debate.

Of course, this is only a perception. Since you obviously have a different
perception of yourself, we're never going to agree. As such, I'll drop the
comparative speculation at this point.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

In article , Dwight Stewart
writes:

And conservatives want to end big government. More specifically,
conservatives want to end unnecessary government rules which exist only to
benefit the interests of a certain special interest group. While you and
your ilk (a special interest group) have an interest in maintaining code
testing to reinforce your self-perceived status, code testing itself is
unnecessary today for anything outside that. Therefore, those seeking to end
code testing are more compatible with conservative views, while those
seeking to maintain code testing to reinforce status are more compatible
with liberal views.

Dwight:

You've conveniently failed to take into account the full context of my previous
response on the same topic.

I'm not an anarchist, Dwight. I believe that
government has a role in our society, and
maintaining standards in the ARS, an activity
in which citizens are given the privilege of
making use of the valuable and finite resource
known as the RF spectrum, makes sense to me.


Well, that's big of you. The question now is which standards (necessary or
unnecessary), which you answer in the next few sentences.


The "government protection" whine is just
another NCTA strawman. I prefer to think of
it as the government "protecting" the whole ARS,
not just the Morse code and it's testing
requirement. (snip)

Then you support unnecessary government requirements.

No, I don't. However, I don't consider the code testing requirement to be
"unnecessary." I consider this requirement to be current, valid, and
essential to maintaining the use of this valuable communications skill
within the ARS.

Code testing serves no real purpose today,

Prove it…

either as a means of insuring communications support
to those outside Ham Radio

…starting with this…

or as a means to keep riff-raft out of Ham Radio
(you were able to get in).

Where have I ever said that it has this effect? I have repeatedly
disclaimed this particular theory, usually citing the 20-WPM Extra-
class HF Phone reprobates who collect virtually 100% of the NAL's
issued to amateur radio operators.

As such, it exists solely to maintain your own
delusions of status and I don't think the government should be maintaining
rules just so you can help yourself feel important.

No, Dwight, that's just your own twisted and, quite frankly, slanderous
opinion.

(snip) "Rednecks," of any region, are usually tough,
self-reliant, moral and decent people. (snip)

You fail that test in many ways. A redneck doesn't need government rules
to be "self-reliant" and your attitudes towards others are certainly not
"decent" or "moral."

If that's how you perceive me, then you're obviously no judge of character.

And, based on your old web page pictures, you clearly
don't look that tough.

And just what is that supposed to mean? It looks like you're making the
classic mistake of judging a book by it's cover.

So, failing that test, we have to look elsewhere for
someone similar to you. And, looking solely at attitudes towards others,
only the deep woods redneck springs to mind.

Well, I guess you're entitled to your opinion, groundless though it may be.

These people (deep woods rednecks) don't like anybody outside kin or clan,
and just barely, though not always, tolerate neighbors.

I haven't had any complaints.

Does this sound
familiar, Larry? I don't know what you do with your kin, so I won't go
there. However, speaking solely of Ham Radio, you don't like anyone outside
your pro-code testing clan, and just barely, though not always, tolerate
those outside the code testing debate.

Dwight, you're digging yourself into a deep hole of scurrilous, groundless
ad hominem attacks -- something that I've been accused of in the past.

Of course, this is only a perception.

And, I might add, not a very well-considered one at that.

Since you obviously have a different
perception of yourself, we're never going to agree. As such, I'll drop the
comparative speculation at this point.

That's the most intelligent thing you've said so far in this entire post.
You've obviously had a bad day, so I'll let it go at that.

73 de Larry, K3LT

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:

Dwight Stewart wrote:

Code testing serves no real purpose today,

Prove itŠ


Prove it does, Larry. Prove code testing serves a purpose today worthy of
a specific government requirement above and beyond all other operating
modes. The trends are moving towards the elimination of code testing. If you
have a good reason to change that, now is certainly the time to speak up.
Nothing you've said so far has been able to change those trends. Endlessly
repeating what you've already said hasn't either. So, perhaps you should
think of something new to say.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

In article , Dwight Stewart
writes:


"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:

Dwight Stewart wrote:

Code testing serves no real purpose today,

Prove itÅ*


Prove it does, Larry. Prove code testing serves a purpose today worthy of
a specific government requirement above and beyond all other operating
modes.

Brian:

I, and my fellow PCTA's, have been doing that for years here on this
newsgroup, Fidonet, and in the editorial pages of the ham magazines.
Now, it's your turn. I axed YOU to "prove" that "code testing serves
no real purpose today." So do it. Provide your "proof," make it
convincing, and do it right now -- or you will have just provided "proof"
that you don't know what you're talking about!

The trends are moving towards the elimination of code testing. If you
have a good reason to change that, now is certainly the time to speak up.

I have "spoken up" about this -- at great length.

Nothing you've said so far has been able to change those trends.

That's because we have a dumbed-down culture, and one voice cannot
change an entire culture. Six years ago, I encouraged Nancy Kott and
the FISTS to organize a campaign of "speaking up" which could have
easily changed the outcome of the Restructuring NPRM of 1998. That
didn't happen. Now, too little too late, she is making a last ditch
effort. Well, when the "Zero WPM" NPRM comes out, I will provide my
comments, as I did in '98. However, I can't do everyone else's reading,
writing, and thinking for them. I had to do that for my alleged "bosses"
in the Air Force, and I've decided I'm no longer going to give away my
intellectual effort for anyone else to claim as their own. All of my
fellow FISTS will have to come up with their own arguments to keep
code testing, if that's what they want to do.

Endlessly
repeating what you've already said hasn't either. So, perhaps you should
think of something new to say.

If I am speaking the truth, which I am, then repeating that truth is just
as valid as the repetitive, boring, and obnoxious droning of the NCTA.

So, Brian -- are you going to defend your statement, or not?

73 de Larry, K3LT

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote:

Dwight Stewart writes:

Brian:


Pay attention, Larry. I'm not Brian.


I, and my fellow PCTA's, have been doing that for
years here on this newsgroup, Fidonet, and in the
editorial pages of the ham magazines. (snip)


No, you've been ranting. If you had proven code testing serves a purpose
today worthy of a specific government requirement above and beyond all other
operating modes, code testing would not be going away.


Now, it's your turn. I axed YOU to "prove" that
"code testing serves no real purpose today." So
do it. Provide your "proof," make it convincing,
and do it right now -- or you will have just
provided "proof" that you don't know what you're
talking about!


The proof is obvious, Larry. Code has disappeared or is disappearing in
all other radio services. Since code testing was established as a license
requirement to help maintain a pool of skilled radio operators and code has
now virtually disappeared outside ham radio, code testing no longer serves a
purpose as a license requirement. Code testing is disappearing exactly
because of that.


That's because we have a dumbed-down culture, and
one voice cannot change an entire culture. Six
years ago, (snip)


Ah, the dumbed-down culture myth again. People today are not as dumb as
you'd like to think they are, Larry. And they're certainly no dumber than
some of those in our generation or in previous generations.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

ospam (Larry Roll K3LT) wrote in message ...


So, Brian -- are you going to defend your statement, or not?

73 de Larry, K3LT

Yes. No. What statement did I make?