Yeah.... the amount of methane released as a product of water treatment
facilities that take in the raw sewage as well as the methane released from
animals at farms, and of course the enivitable other form of methane common
to humans, FARTS!

Sorry in advance for this one.......
Ryan


The only way to eliminate all pollution is to eliminate the human race.
Since that is not a reasonable solution, it is up to people to develop
energy supplies and attach the appropriate safety requirements without the
emotional baggage caused by fear. To date, the nuclear industry has had a
much better safety record than many other industries and we have the
ability
to make it even safer yet. Right now the irrational fears about nuclear
power are standing in the way of collecting the data that will prove it
either safe or dangerous and developing an appropriate energy action plan.
What data does get collected is buried on the back of the last page at the
bottom of the last column of the newspaper or doesn't even make it into
the
paper unless it is something that they can sensationalize.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Len Over 21" wrote:

They do? WHICH "hills," senior? We've got a whole
bunch of Big Hill things in this 60 x 120 mile area.


Drive east on Interstate 10/20 and you'll see hundreds of them overlooking
the valley just east of San Bernardino. You can't miss them - they're good
sized and plainly visible from the Interstate (many are right beside the
Interstate, with many more placed along the hillside in both directions for
several miles). It's an impressive sight (but not very attractive).


Dwight, I worked on Solar One in Barstow, CA, the first
large-scale solar-furnace electric plant in the middle desert.


Do you know where the one in Arizona is? I saw it about a mile off to one
side the Interstate as I was driving through. There was a sign for the road
leading to it saying something about a power research facility, but I don't
remember the name of it.


Solar Two replaced it, trying out more things in re solar power
as heat. The two plants put about 50 to 100 MWe into the grid
(as I recall). A small part of the GWe required by the region.


Very likely. I don't think solar is going to be able to supply power on a
large scale anytime soon. In the meantime, additional fossil fuel plants are
the only real option. Nuclear power may one day become more viable, but
people will have to be convinced of it's safety first. And steps will have
to be taken to lower costs and better deal with waste products. Until then,
I have serious reservations about additional nuclear power plants.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

In article k.net, "Dwight
Stewart" writes:

"Len Over 21" wrote:

They do? WHICH "hills," senior? We've got a whole
bunch of Big Hill things in this 60 x 120 mile area.

Drive east on Interstate 10/20 and you'll see hundreds of them overlooking
the valley just east of San Bernardino. You can't miss them - they're good
sized and plainly visible from the Interstate (many are right beside the
Interstate, with many more placed along the hillside in both directions for
several miles). It's an impressive sight (but not very attractive).

That's not strictly IN "Los Angeles," Dwight. :-)

Try Riverside County, not Los Angeles County. Big place out here.

Try Kern County to the north, on the way from the grapevine into the
southern tip of Huge San Joaquin Valley. Lots of them there if one
looks.

Dwight, I worked on Solar One in Barstow, CA, the first
large-scale solar-furnace electric plant in the middle desert.

Do you know where the one in Arizona is? I saw it about a mile off to one
side the Interstate as I was driving through. There was a sign for the road
leading to it saying something about a power research facility, but I don't
remember the name of it.

No. Haven't been far into Arizona since 1977.

Solar One in Barstow got decommissioned some time around 1983 and
Solar Two came up in the same place around 1985 (give or take).

Solar Two replaced it, trying out more things in re solar power
as heat. The two plants put about 50 to 100 MWe into the grid
(as I recall). A small part of the GWe required by the region.

Very likely. I don't think solar is going to be able to supply power on a
large scale anytime soon. In the meantime, additional fossil fuel plants are
the only real option. Nuclear power may one day become more viable, but
people will have to be convinced of it's safety first. And steps will have
to be taken to lower costs and better deal with waste products. Until then,
I have serious reservations about additional nuclear power plants.

From what I heard from electric power folks in the IEEE, neither of the
BIG Solar power plant types could make electricity as cheaply as either
fossil fuel or nuclear or hydroelectric plants.

Check out France. Over 80 percent of their electric power comes from
nuclear generators. France is also the leading European reprocessor of
"spent" nuclear material. Where do the French toss their unuseable
nuclear material?

Electric power generation isn't exactly a big "amateur radio" policy issue,
is it? :-)

All radios run on electricity. Except maybe the morse radios..."CW" gets
through when nothing else will, so I would hazard a guess that "CW" radios
don't need electricity at all. :-)

Keep that crystal set ready to go in case of power outages! :-)

LHA

Dwight Stewart wrote:

Los Angeles has several hundred wind turbines placed in the hills
around the area.

....and if they could harness Len Anderson's output they'd have it made.

Dave K8MN

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message thlink.net...
"Len Over 21" wrote:

They do? WHICH "hills," senior? We've got a whole
bunch of Big Hill things in this 60 x 120 mile area.


Drive east on Interstate 10/20 and you'll see hundreds of them overlooking
the valley just east of San Bernardino. You can't miss them - they're good
sized and plainly visible from the Interstate (many are right beside the
Interstate, with many more placed along the hillside in both directions for
several miles). It's an impressive sight (but not very attractive).


Dwight, I worked on Solar One in Barstow, CA, the first
large-scale solar-furnace electric plant in the middle desert.


Do you know where the one in Arizona is? I saw it about a mile off to one
side the Interstate as I was driving through. There was a sign for the road
leading to it saying something about a power research facility, but I don't
remember the name of it.


Solar Two replaced it, trying out more things in re solar power
as heat. The two plants put about 50 to 100 MWe into the grid
(as I recall). A small part of the GWe required by the region.


Very likely. I don't think solar is going to be able to supply power on a
large scale anytime soon. In the meantime, additional fossil fuel plants are
the only real option. Nuclear power may one day become more viable, but
people will have to be convinced of it's safety first. And steps will have
to be taken to lower costs and better deal with waste products. Until then,
I have serious reservations about additional nuclear power plants.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

Dwight, we would need to change how we used energy, and in the solar
arena, conservation is key.

In the early 90's I took my older son's camping at Land Between Lakes,
KY/TN. There was an 1860's working farm as part of the scenery. The
weather was hot and sticky, we should have been out on the lake.
Anyway, we were looking over the farm and I had decided when we pulled
in that I wasn't going to go into the old farm house and get cooked.
Anyway, as I stood on the breezeway at the back of the house, between
the main house and the summer kitchen, I noticed that there wasn't
heat pouring out of the house as I expected. So I went inside and
things were pleasant. Upstairs and downstairs. No electricity.

My 2000 sq ft Ranch would have been sweltering under those condx.

The key was ventilation at ceiling level of the exterior walls, as if
one of the logs were missing.

Go figure.

Dwight Stewart wrote:

Los Angeles has several hundred wind turbines placed in the hills
around the area.

For some reason I envision truckloads of refried beans rolling into L.A., to
assist the valiant cadres of illegal aliens in keeping a steady wind going.

How you Californians keep them all facing away from those hills at the same
time, is what I wonder.

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

In article k.net, "Dwight
Stewart" writes:

Drive east on Interstate 10/20 and you'll see hundreds of them overlooking
the valley just east of San Bernardino. You can't miss them - they're good
sized and plainly visible from the Interstate (many are right beside the
Interstate, with many more placed along the hillside in both directions for
several miles). It's an impressive sight (but not very attractive).

NOT ATTRACTIVE!?

If they're the kind that have the single tubular pylon and 3 bladed horizontal
- axle turbine, they're not just attractive - they're beautiful!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Hey Charles,

Give me a trip to Taco Bell, and some cheap welfare beer like Milwaukee's
Best or Busch beer and I could power those wind turbines on my own!


--
Ryan, KC8PMX
FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!)
--. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-.
... --. .... - . .-. ...
"charlesb" wrote in message
m...

Dwight Stewart wrote:

Los Angeles has several hundred wind turbines placed in the hills
around the area.

For some reason I envision truckloads of refried beans rolling into L.A.,
to
assist the valiant cadres of illegal aliens in keeping a steady wind
going.

How you Californians keep them all facing away from those hills at the
same
time, is what I wonder.

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

"Len Over 21" wrote:

That's not strictly IN "Los Angeles," Dwight. :-)

Try Riverside County, not Los Angeles County. Big
place out here.


Perhaps I was a little loose with the specifics, Len. However, for all
practical purposes, I consider just about the entire valley to be Los
Angeles. The cities and towns spread out side by side from Los Angeles, with
only a roadside sign to separate the individual cities or towns. From where
I'm sitting, the whole thing looks like one giant metropolis. And the wind
turbines I described probably supply supplimental power to that whole
metropolis. However, you are correct. The wind turbines are in Riverside
Country, probably supplying power to the area grid.


No. Haven't been far into Arizona since 1977.


Well, it doesn't really matter. I was just wondering because it's the
only solar facility I've personally seen.


Electric power generation isn't exactly a big "amateur radio"
policy issue, is it? :-)


You know how this newsgroup is, Len. If a topic gets introduced here, it
becomes an issue here.


Keep that crystal set ready to go in case of power outages! :-)


Looks like Hurricane Isabel is going to miss this area and hit north of
us. Therefore, ham radio should be relatively calm, but it may be a busy
weekend for the Coast Guard. However, things have been fairly quiet so far.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Brian" wrote:

Dwight, we would need to change how we used
energy, and in the solar arena, conservation is key.


It could be done. I recently visited a friend living in large (40')
double-wide camping trailer. I was amazed at how little electricity he
actually used, while still having most of the modern appliances and
technologies (TV, VCR, stereo, computer, etc.). I don't know exactly how he
did it. However, I noticed that he had purchased or converted most
everything to 12v, so perhaps that is the key. Almost everything was running
off batteries, with just a small transformer charging the batteries. Only a
few things (AC) ran off the main power feed.

Anyway, while it could be done, trying to convince people to do it is
another matter.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/