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"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article ilgate.org, "Hans K0HB" writes: "N2EY" wrote Then answer this question: Why should people who are not interested in building or fixing their radios have to learn all that theory stuff for the written tests? Why are all hams tested on all sorts of stuff they are not interested in? Because the terms of their license make them responsible for the quality of their radiated signal(s). Maybe. But a ham is not required to actually know how his/her equipment works, nor to be able to work on it. Just for the result. If you firmly believe hams don't need to know theory, then petition the FCC to end theory knowledge as a test requirement. If you don't then your argument is just a means to divert the issue to arguing a different subject. I'm not required to know how my cars work, just how to use them safely. I am "responsible", however, to see that they meet all applicable DMV requirements, including pollution and safety equipment. I can do the work myself or have it done by others. The same is true for ham equipment. I repeat my comment from above. The FCC thinks that Technicians are adequately tested on that, for all authorized modes and technologies. There are no modes or technologies authorized for amateur HF/MF that are not also authorized for amateur VHF/UHF. So there is no absolute need for any of the General or Extra written tests *except* perhaps a few regulatory and propagation questions. I repeat again. Without demonstrating some familiarity with the basic underlying science, it would be irresponsible of the regulators to allow an applicant to establish a radio transmitting station on the public airways. See above about Technicians. And here's another point: There's almost nothing in the tests about some technologies that hams are allowed to use. For example, vacuum tubes - not very much in the tests about them! Yet FCC *trusts* hams who want to use vacuum tube technology to learn what they need to know about it and operate their equipment responsibly. So why all the tests? Ditto my last :-) :-) Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
In article , "Clint" rattlehead at
computron dot net writes: Hey, wanna talk SHUDDER? this is what makes ME shudder... the thought that you are invoking the priviledges of free speech and rights of society just like I am, but also advocating that an idea, concept or practice be forced upon a person against thier will. And you're doing that with a straight face. By that logic, anyone who proposes any sort of legal requirement that is "against a person's will" makes you shudder. For example, speed limits on highways. Or requiring children to go to school. How about band edges? Power limitations on transmitters? Mode restrictions like no 20 kHz wide FM voice on 20 meters? Here's a thought for ya, Clint: Suppose NCVEC and NCI have their way and Element 1 is just dropped. Poof, no more code test. There's a good chance that will happen, too. Some would even say it's a slam dunk. Then suppose a group wants to do away with the Amateur Extra and General licenses and their written tests. Suppose this group says the idea of requiring more written testing against their will simply makes them shudder. Forcing all that theory stuff on them....terrible, just terrible. Will that make you shudder? |
In article , "Clint" rattlehead at
computron dot net writes: Tested morse code proficiency was required by the GOVERNMENT in the early days of radio for the first US radio regulatory agency. Back then, on-off keying codes were the ONLY way to communicate using early primitive radio. The GOVERNMENT's main reason for the code test was so that all radio operators in all radio services could be contacted in order to mitigate radio interference. This is the year 2003, not 1912, not 1896, and not 1844 (the first year of commercial code use on the Morse-Vail telegraph system). The FCC stated publicly 13 years ago that the morse code test was NOT a real requirement to determine if an amateur should be licensed. The FCC stated that the only reason for retaining the code test in 1990 was due to ITU-R S25.5. Len, how DARE you point out the fact that times change and that the needs of a public utility and hobby are to change to meet those needs. I think it lacks understanding and sensitivity to the feelings of the PCTA gestapo on your part to prove that with the passing of years, requirements to meed modern demands likewise change. Careful Clint, lest someone's ANCESTORS rise out of the ground and smite you down for using the "G-word." :-) I am flabbergasted; i'm taken aback. I just am overcome with such frustration that I do not know what to say. As the old saying goes, "Schange happens..." LHA |
Leo wrote:
Clint, that's an interesting collection of thoughts that you have there - On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:48:26 -0500, "Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote: But, to answer your question: did you do something illegal? Of course not. Insensitive, foolish and intellectually bankrupt, perhaps - none of which are punishable offences. AH... nice dodge.... as you see, the very point of bringing up the fact that "freedom of speech is frequently curtailed today, such as the following examples..." would ONLY be brought up to imply that what I did was NOT protected by the concept of freedom of speech. Not a dodge at all - you don't need freedom of speech to protect your right to rant in public. I guess reading comprehension was dropped from the curriculum in your P.S. district early on.....along with Civics. Did you mean civility? I put it to you; if this is NOT the case, if there is NO insinuation of same, then WHY bring up the fact that there are certain extreme cases where free speech is limited or halted, when I claim the right to do so? Just for the purpose of conversation? I think such a claim is paper thin and WEAK at best. Huh? Can you gve an example of when your free speech was curtailed? And by whom? Do you hear voices? Did they do it? As you posted earlier Leo, the claim of suppression of free speech is alway pulled out whenever the argument is about to be lost - by some. I suspect that the Nazi (not the euphemistic full 'National Socialist' name that you now use in this post) reference the two are the same; but I digress, I am not sure what point you are making by trying to distinguish the two Not really - one carries more negative feeelings than the other. As you know. was used because it was the only card left to play in an otherwise empty hand. and at THAT point you are no longer discussing fact and are in fact using opinion. The truth of the matter is that the PCTA crowd is long out of factual support and credible reasoning to keep the morse code testing; they abandon any further hopes now with all sorts of dodging tactics- and if, by the way, you find resentment to the use of nazi, I likewise, would find resentment with the discriptions "too lazy", "dumb", "stupid", and "moron". HOWEVER, instead of dropping to the ground and kicking my feet and clenching my fist and screaming as a child does when it's bottle is taken away, I am continueing the debate. ... did you read this before you hit "send" - pretty funny! ROTFLMAO! He probably thinks it is correct too, Leo Almmost everyone I know finds "too lazy, Dumb, Stupid, and Moron" to be the moral equivalent of N**I! Due to the atrocities committed during WW II, the word "Nazi" has severely negative connotations for a large percentage of the world's population, okay, you get the "DUH" award of the day for that one. KEEN grasp of the obvious. And, therefore, you KNEW what effect this would have on people, yet you used it anyway? Oh please.... Of course Clint knows the effects. I see the classic newsgroup "I Wanna Fight" personality here. Come in, pick a side, then try to rip the other side a new backside, so to speak. Dehumanize them a little, call them names, especially the N**I name. Then wait for the outrage and complain that they are trampling on your free speech. Then try to justify your calling them N***S by making comparisons like "This guy called someone stupid, so I can call him a N***, after all, it is the equivalent". Clint doesn't play well with others, and that is just how he likes it. reaching beyond the Hogan's Heroes-esque usage that you recognize and reminding them of the horrors of that regime, for many in a very personal way. believe me, I was not reaching for a humorous or laughable reference. My use of a "will not accept change" analogy was intended at the latter reality of the regime, not the former comedy that you referred to. I see....what reality was that, specifically? however, it was your right to enter the conversation, even if you had nothing new factual to add, and you may continue doing so. Thanks! BTW, conversations are carried out in person, discussions occur on newsgroups. This was the latter. Care to point out the color of the grass and the sky now? /reductio ad absurdum If you mean your point, you have done a better job of reducing it to the absurd in this reply that anyone else ever could. Thank you! Is there a point? - Mike KB3EIA - |
K0HB wrote:
(N2EY) wrote The FCC thinks that Technicians are adequately tested on that, for all authorized modes and technologies. There are no modes or technologies authorized for amateur HF/MF that are not also authorized for amateur VHF/UHF. So there is no absolute need for any of the General or Extra written tests *except* perhaps a few regulatory and propagation questions. Jim, your strawman is aflame, because I just ****ed flaming napalm on it. Grow up. Doggone it Hans! you just made me spit soda out my nose! HOWL! - Mike KB3EIA - |
Hmmm - looking back over his comments in the thread, I'm not sure!
But we did find out why he uses 'rattlehead' as his email address - I believe that it actually does :) 73, Leo On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 04:29:59 GMT, Mike Coslo wrote: /reductio ad absurdum If you mean your point, you have done a better job of reducing it to the absurd in this reply that anyone else ever could. Thank you! Is there a point? - Mike KB3EIA - |
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"Dee D. Flint" wrote ...
Clint wrote ... but always remember, that is *your* opinion. I happen to think the analogy is quite accurate. Visit a Holocaust museum and watch the documentaries on the History channel for a while and read the transcripts of the Nuremberg trials. See if you think the analogy is accurate then. __________________________________________________ _________________ I don't believe that it would do any good in Clint's case, Dee. He obviously doesn't find anything wrong with using the word as part of his no-code test argument. Arnie - KT4ST |
"Arnie Macy" wrote in message ... "Dee D. Flint" wrote ... Clint wrote ... but always remember, that is *your* opinion. I happen to think the analogy is quite accurate. Visit a Holocaust museum and watch the documentaries on the History channel for a while and read the transcripts of the Nuremberg trials. See if you think the analogy is accurate then. __________________________________________________ _________________ I don't believe that it would do any good in Clint's case, Dee. He obviously doesn't find anything wrong with using the word as part of his no-code test argument. Arnie - KT4ST Well he says that he has visited and studied this and it doesn't change his point of view. So now that I've completed the discussion on the call signs, I'm going to put him in my killfile along with Len 0ver 21. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Clint" wrote ...
Hey, wanna talk SHUDDER? this is what makes ME shudder... the thought that you are invoking the priviledges of free speech and rights of society just like I am, but also advocating that an idea, concept or practice be forced upon a person against thier will. And you're doing that with a straight face. __________________________________________________ _________________ No, we are trying to get you to understand that there are much better ways to express your argument than by invoking an analogy that offends a large group of people. It should be obvious by now, that this is what you have done. What part of that is eluding you? Arnie - KT4ST |
Arnie,
If you review this individual's posts on this subject over the last few days, a trend becomes obvious - his intent IS to upset and annoy. He thrives on confrontation, and really gets going when he hits a nerve with one of his readers. Not intellectual enough to make his point by rational arguement, he resorts to name calling and other juvenile tactics to 'get his way'. And he knows that the "nazi" thing works - so he keeps on with it - it's his gig. Convincing people like this to change is analogous to trying to teach a pig to sing - no matter how hard you try, it ain't gonna happen - you'll only annoy the pig.... Best tactic for handling this guy - Dee has it absolutely right, use the killfile. If there's no audience, there'll be no idiot! Plonk 'im. 73, Leo On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:01:24 -0400, "Arnie Macy" wrote: "Clint" wrote ... Hey, wanna talk SHUDDER? this is what makes ME shudder... the thought that you are invoking the priviledges of free speech and rights of society just like I am, but also advocating that an idea, concept or practice be forced upon a person against thier will. And you're doing that with a straight face. _________________________________________________ __________________ No, we are trying to get you to understand that there are much better ways to express your argument than by invoking an analogy that offends a large group of people. It should be obvious by now, that this is what you have done. What part of that is eluding you? Arnie - KT4ST |
"Len Over 21" wrote ... My first wife was Reform Jew. All her older relatives made it out of Germany via Denmark. I've talked with them at length at the time and also with many others in the same situation. In the Fairfax area of western Los Angeles. She died in late 1964, a cancer victim. Are you now going to "lecture" me on the Holocaust of WW2? Are you now going to assume some kind of superior moral attitude about "ancestry" because you have such weak arguments on the retention of morse code testing in an avocational hobby activity involving radio? May your conscience be forever burdened by the souls of seven million who died when you profess some kind of outrage in an argument over code testing. That is a pathetically weak, petty connection you make. There are several Centers for the Holocaust around the USA. I would suggest you visit one and spend some time there and reflect on the reality of that dreadful, terrible happening over half a century ago. Yarmulke is optional during a visit. Carrying a code key during such a visit isn't required. P U T Z ! __________________________________________________ _______________ Based on the above, I would think that you would also be sensitive to the use of the word. Clint could have easily made his argument without invoking it. As to outrage, mine is real, my relatives who suffered and died were real, and I *do* take real offense to the use of the word in such a petty and out of context manner. You should too. Arnie - KT4ST |
In article .net, "Bill Sohl"
writes: IF morse (i.e. radiotelegraphy) had any basis as a foundation for higher learning of radio concepts, principles or theory then it would be a requirement of engineering students...which it has never been to my knowledge anywhere. Faulty logic, Bill. "Radio" is but a small, specialized part of electrical engineering. That's one reason Morse isn't and wasn't part of the curriculum. Heck, soldering is a much bigger part of electrical engineering than radio, and soldering is not taught in EE school either. But if someone wants to learn radio on their own, and wants to learn-by-doing, amateur radio can be a really fun way to learn. Skill in Morse code is an excellent tool in that learning process. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article .net, "Bill Sohl" writes: IF morse (i.e. radiotelegraphy) had any basis as a foundation for higher learning of radio concepts, principles or theory then it would be a requirement of engineering students...which it has never been to my knowledge anywhere. Faulty logic, Bill. "Radio" is but a small, specialized part of electrical engineering. That's one reason Morse isn't and wasn't part of the curriculum. Heck, soldering is a much bigger part of electrical engineering than radio, and soldering is not taught in EE school either. But if someone wants to learn radio on their own, and wants to learn-by-doing, amateur radio can be a really fun way to learn. Skill in Morse code is an excellent tool in that learning process. 73 de Jim, N2EY Then yoiu should have no problem gaining morse users from those that want to learn by doing after the code test is gone. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
"Leo" wrote ...
If you review this individual's posts on this subject over the last few days, a trend becomes obvious - his intent IS to upset and annoy. He thrives on confrontation, and really gets going when he hits a nerve with one of his readers. Not intellectual enough to make his point by rational arguement, he resorts to name calling and other juvenile tactics to 'get his way'. And he knows that the "nazi" thing works - so he keeps on with it - it's his gig. Convincing people like this to change is analogous to trying to teach a pig to sing - no matter how hard you try, it ain't gonna happen - you'll only annoy the pig.... Best tactic for handling this guy - Dee has it absolutely right, use the killfile. If there's no audience, there'll be no idiot! Plonk 'im. __________________________________________________ _______________ Leo, I completely agree with your points. I just hate to "plonk" him. I did that to Len for about a year and missed many laughs. But, at the end of the day, it might have to be done. 73, Arnie - KT4ST |
"Mike Coslo" wrote ...
Arnie, I believe he is expressing himself exactly as he wants to. __________________________________________________ ____ Mike, I believe you are right. You can lead a horse to water ... 73, Arnie - KT4ST |
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:51:21 -0400, "Arnie Macy"
wrote: Of course, that's OK too - if you are not offended by the boorish behaviour, and are able to see these people for what they are, you can have a lot of fun watching them. Kind of like the zoo, only more interactive. But, a word of advice - if you are sensitive about an issue (as many people are to the Holocaust, for example), never let then know - they'll just use it against you later, usualling when they feel threatened by you. That is a pretty scummy technique - but it's the only real weapon in a cretin's arsenal. In other words, don't give 'em any ammunition.... 73, Leo I completely agree with your points. I just hate to "plonk" him. I did that to Len for about a year and missed many laughs. But, at the end of the day, it might have to be done. 73, Arnie - KT4ST |
Oops - missed that one! I was playing on the old "if a tree falls in
the woods, and no one hears, does it make a sound?" riddle. You are absolutely correct - there is no sound, but the tree is still there all right :) Good one - thanks, Dick! 73, Leo On 23 Sep 2003 01:00:52 GMT, "Dick Carroll;" wrote: Leo wrote: Arnie, If you review this individual's posts on this subject over the last few days, a trend becomes obvious - his intent IS to upset and annoy. He thrives on confrontation, and really gets going when he hits a nerve with one of his readers. Not intellectual enough to make his point by rational arguement, he resorts to name calling and other juvenile tactics to 'get his way'. And he knows that the "nazi" thing works - so he keeps on with it - it's his gig. Convincing people like this to change is analogous to trying to teach a pig to sing - no matter how hard you try, it ain't gonna happen - you'll only annoy the pig.... Best tactic for handling this guy - Dee has it absolutely right, use the killfile. If there's no audience, there'll be no idiot! Oh, there'll still be an idiot, just one with no audience! Plonk 'im. Did it the second day he was on here. |
"Leo" wrote ...
But, a word of advice - if you are sensitive about an issue (as many people are to the Holocaust, for example), never let then know - they'll just use it against you later, usualling when they feel threatened by you. That is a pretty scummy technique - but it's the only real weapon in a cretin's arsenal. In other words, don't give 'em any ammunition.... __________________________________________________ ______________ Yep, good advice. Thanks. Arnie - KT4ST |
No, we are trying to get you to understand that there are much better ways to express your argument than by invoking an analogy that offends a large group of people. Here's the scenario, should you decide to halt all communication that offends some people. The whole world goes silent from lack of all human communication. WHY? All advertisements must be taken out of public view, as smoking cigarettes angers the anti-smoking crowd, meat products anger p.e.t.a.-types, wood products anger earth first! types, etc; All books must be taken off the shelves, even the oldest literature offends some moralists... religious books offend athiests and pagans. Secular books offend christians, etc. All music must be taken off the airwaves and recorded music products must be taken off the shelf... as rap offends those who've been victimized by violent crime, religious music offends seculars, pagans and athiests, etc. Alcohol must be taken off the market to avoid offended MADD. I could continue this ad nauseum but I think the point is pretty clear. If YOU want to live in that world, go right ahead and censure everything you say and carefully make sure you are not going to first offend everybody. The utopian socialists will LOVE you for it. I, however, will not. Ever. Are we clear? Clint KB5ZHT |
If you review this individual's posts on this subject over the last few days, a trend becomes obvious - his intent IS to upset and annoy. Nope. My intent is to offer a balancing opinion (I am intitled to that..???) My intent is to offer a bit of modern thinking to oppose the old gaurd "will not change to the end" crowd. My intent is to offer proof and evidence to counter emotional bleeding heart tactics. If you are upset and annoyed, instead of genuinely inspired to think further about the issue, then perhaps you should take a good long look under your bed and make sure that you are operating from anything less than true, honest feelings and ideas, and not "I HAD TO DO IT, AND SO SHOULD YOU!!!!" mentality. He thrives on confrontation, no, I will just not back down when ganged up on by "you do as your told and quit questioning your betters & elders!" tactics. Not intellectual enough to make his point by rational arguement, i've done so and supported proof, and got EMOTION and "feeling" in return instead of logical arguments. The few times a PCTA type attempted to use a counter argument, it was so weak and thin I blew holes in it quickly. Of course, soon the real direct personal character attacks came.... "lazy", "stupid", "moronic", etc... now, WHO has the lack of intellect to make a point with a rational argument? he resorts to name calling if THAT isn't the pot calling the kettle black! And he knows that the "nazi" thing works - so he keeps on with it - it's his gig. you are correct. It made an excellent analogy that struck home and made a concept clear. It's called using examples to support an idea. try it instead of just dodging the issue or telling NCTA people to "shut up and do what you're told, you're lazy, just do it, it's simple, do what we tell you because only WE know what's best for you!" You're turn-around tactic won't work on the rational among us. The ONLY people it will strike home with and find comfort with is the small portion of the ham society that makes up the PCTA crowd, and those people i'm not really interested in reaching because they are so die-hard CW testing lovers that they are not reachable. The ones I am reaching are the other undecideds out there and the ones that know they do not have enough information to make thier own decision and thus look further. And you guys have done a really good job of showing that the ONLY one common basis for keeping the CW test alive is that YOU had to do it, and it's just plain not fair if future generations do not have to. I don't think you won them over, but keep talking; you're helping MY cause. thanks! Clint KB5ZHT |
Best tactic for handling this guy - Dee has it absolutely right, use the killfile. If there's no audience, there'll be no idiot! Plonk 'im. Heh, you think you've won the race the fact of the matter is you went to the WRONG race track. I'm not really looking to you guys as an audience; I am, in fact, speaking to those out there reading and not posting. Of which there are more than you can possibly imagine; there are certainly more of them than the PCTA crowd. THEY will read my posts. And THEY just saw that YOU cannot handle debate, you run and hide. yep, you just hurt your cause a little more. "we can't discuss the topic with this fellow, so let's just hide from him!" Clint KB5ZHT |
Oh, please.... An excellent analogy? No one could possibly believe
that. Not even someone at your level of social comprehension. You're making this stuff up, right? Pots and kettles? You 'blew holes' in someone's arguement? It's OK to intentionally use a hateful 'analogy' to prove a point, then are surprised that you got emotion in return? (well, Duh!) There's a career waiting for you at the local Comedy Store, my friend! Jeez.... ....ROTFL again! Leo PS - I'm helping your cause? I thought that your cause was the elimination of Morse testing. If you review all of my comments so far, you'll find that I have never once mentioned Morse testing, pro or con. You have no idea what my position is on that subject - nice reading comprehension, my friend. Unless your cause is to get up on the soapbox and make a fool of yourself - if that's it, just let me know if you need any more help! On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:15:02 -0500, "Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote: If you review this individual's posts on this subject over the last few days, a trend becomes obvious - his intent IS to upset and annoy. Nope. My intent is to offer a balancing opinion (I am intitled to that..???) My intent is to offer a bit of modern thinking to oppose the old gaurd "will not change to the end" crowd. My intent is to offer proof and evidence to counter emotional bleeding heart tactics. If you are upset and annoyed, instead of genuinely inspired to think further about the issue, then perhaps you should take a good long look under your bed and make sure that you are operating from anything less than true, honest feelings and ideas, and not "I HAD TO DO IT, AND SO SHOULD YOU!!!!" mentality. He thrives on confrontation, no, I will just not back down when ganged up on by "you do as your told and quit questioning your betters & elders!" tactics. Not intellectual enough to make his point by rational arguement, i've done so and supported proof, and got EMOTION and "feeling" in return instead of logical arguments. The few times a PCTA type attempted to use a counter argument, it was so weak and thin I blew holes in it quickly. Of course, soon the real direct personal character attacks came.... "lazy", "stupid", "moronic", etc... now, WHO has the lack of intellect to make a point with a rational argument? he resorts to name calling if THAT isn't the pot calling the kettle black! And he knows that the "nazi" thing works - so he keeps on with it - it's his gig. you are correct. It made an excellent analogy that struck home and made a concept clear. It's called using examples to support an idea. try it instead of just dodging the issue or telling NCTA people to "shut up and do what you're told, you're lazy, just do it, it's simple, do what we tell you because only WE know what's best for you!" You're turn-around tactic won't work on the rational among us. The ONLY people it will strike home with and find comfort with is the small portion of the ham society that makes up the PCTA crowd, and those people i'm not really interested in reaching because they are so die-hard CW testing lovers that they are not reachable. The ones I am reaching are the other undecideds out there and the ones that know they do not have enough information to make thier own decision and thus look further. And you guys have done a really good job of showing that the ONLY one common basis for keeping the CW test alive is that YOU had to do it, and it's just plain not fair if future generations do not have to. I don't think you won them over, but keep talking; you're helping MY cause. thanks! Clint KB5ZHT |
"Arnie Macy" wrote in message ... "Dee D. Flint" wrote ... Well he says that he has visited and studied this and it doesn't change his point of view. So now that I've completed the discussion on the call signs, I'm going to put him in my killfile along with Len 0ver 21. __________________________________________________ __________________ I really hate to see you do that. I killfiled Len for about a year, and in the process, missed many a good laughs. But, as I said in another reply -- just might have to be done. 73, Arnie - KT4ST I do it in self preservation. It can be hard to resist responding to either one of them when they make such idiotic statements. I'd rather use my time in talking to more rational people. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
the process, missed many a good laughs. But, as I said in another reply -- just might have to be done. Yet another old guard staunch reactionary that just CANNOT debate an idea and gets mad and runs and hides as a ostrich does it's head in the sand when a differing opinion is given. It's a good thing you guys aren't actual elected representatives who make law. Clint KB5ZHT |
Dee,
Excellent point. I was going for the latter - sound is best defined as vibrations detected by the ear. Vibrations are of course created by the trww falling, but remain only vibrations until the ear receives them. As I understand it, anyway. And the tree, both the one that made the sound and the metaphoric 'tree' referred to in the posting is very much still there! 73, Leo On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:06:30 GMT, "Dee D. Flint" wrote: "Leo" wrote in message .. . Oops - missed that one! I was playing on the old "if a tree falls in the woods, and no one hears, does it make a sound?" riddle. You are absolutely correct - there is no sound, but the tree is still there all right :) Good one - thanks, Dick! 73, Leo You've got to define sound first. For example if you simply define it as waveforms in the air, then yes it does make a sound. However if you define it as the result when waveforms in the air are converted to a form that can be interpreted by the brain, then it doesn't make a sound. Either way though you are right that the tree is still there. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Arnie Macy wrote:
"Leo" wrote ... If you review this individual's posts on this subject over the last few days, a trend becomes obvious - his intent IS to upset and annoy. He thrives on confrontation, and really gets going when he hits a nerve with one of his readers. Not intellectual enough to make his point by rational arguement, he resorts to name calling and other juvenile tactics to 'get his way'. And he knows that the "nazi" thing works - so he keeps on with it - it's his gig. Convincing people like this to change is analogous to trying to teach a pig to sing - no matter how hard you try, it ain't gonna happen - you'll only annoy the pig.... Best tactic for handling this guy - Dee has it absolutely right, use the killfile. If there's no audience, there'll be no idiot! Plonk 'im. __________________________________________________ _______________ Leo, I completely agree with your points. I just hate to "plonk" him. I did that to Len for about a year and missed many laughs. But, at the end of the day, it might have to be done. Or you could try an excercise in "skin toughening", Arnie (don't take it as an insult, I've done the same thing) It is an amazingly empowering thing when you can read some of the merde posted by someone that thrives on confrontation and provocation, knowing that they are failing to achieve their goal with you. After the first few ignored posts, it's fun. - Mike KB3EIA - |
"Mike Coslo" wrote ...
Or you could try an excercise in "skin toughening", Arnie (don't take it as an insult, I've done the same thing) It is an amazingly empowering thing when you can read some of the merde posted by someone that thrives on confrontation and provocation, knowing that they are failing to achieve their goal with you. After the first few ignored posts, it's fun. __________________________________________________ ______________ Actually, I don't worry about the personal insults at all. I find most of them laughable. But, I guess each of us has that *one* thing that bugs them. Given my family history, for me *that's* it. But you are right, ignoring them will tend to make them go away and deprive them of the satisfaction. Thanks for the advice. It is well received. Arnie - KT4ST |
"Clint" wrote ...
EXCELLENT way to attract people to your cause... for those of you undecideds on the topic reading, here is yet ANOTHER soul that dearly loves the continued use of morse code testing requirements for obtaining a license, but cannot debate the matter openly and instead chooses to outright IGNORE people who want to present an opposing view. Like about 4 or 5 others in here that are of his ilk, he proverbially pulls the covers over his head when controversy is presented to him, when debate is offered on a topic. __________________________________________________ __________________ Clint, You *do* know the difference between a male and a female, right? Just checking. Arnie - KT4ST |
"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...
I guess Clint also doesn't understand the admonition to "Never argue with an idiot". Or Iit isn't nice to engage in a battle of wits with unarmed persons". So Leo doesn't have any arms? I'm waiting for Dann Finn to come on here and chew you out for making fun of the disabled. |
"Clint" wrote ...
Oh yes.... definitely. I do wonder, however, how one is suppose to immediately ascertain the difference when one is only reading a mere NG post. __________________________________________________ ____________ Whenever there is doubt, it would seem logical to do a small search prior to writing a reply. A very quick search on Google and you would know that Dee talks about her husband from time to time. Problem solved. Arnie - KT4ST |
"Arnie Macy" wrote in message ... "Clint" wrote ... Oh yes.... definitely. I do wonder, however, how one is suppose to immediately ascertain the difference when one is only reading a mere NG post. __________________________________________________ ____________ Whenever there is doubt, it would seem logical to do a small search prior to writing a reply. A very quick search on Google and you would know that Dee talks about her husband from time to time. Problem solved. Arnie - KT4ST Plus one should never assume especially when the poster has a non-gender specific name such as mine. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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In article , Mike Coslo
writes: Or you could try an excercise in "skin toughening", Arnie (don't take it as an insult, I've done the same thing) It is an amazingly empowering thing when you can read some of the merde posted by someone that thrives on confrontation and provocation, knowing that they are failing to achieve their goal with you. After the first few ignored posts, it's fun. Ah-nold the Codinator is apparently skinless. A long time ago I explained facts, and gave a website address for the only remaining morse code test center in the US military, Fort Huachuca. That was in public view. Arnie insisted I had refused to believe "his" statement of it. Apparently he thought MY posting was his. He kept hammering in public that I should make a telephone call to some NCO back east to "learn all about a code test" that was required of one Special Forces MOS rating. All of that MOS information on any job description in the US Army is given ON their website...every single MOS rating. For public viewing. Arnie kept trying to convince everyone that morse code is used today for US military communications. It is not. It's "use" is only for Military Intelligence electronic interception (Ft. Huachuca is an M.I. center). There is NO US military tactical communications done today by morse code and NO evidence that it IS used for that. I gave several web addresses for information, including the US Army's Doctrine and Training Command Digital Library and repeated mention of FM 24-24, the 1994 Field Manual listing ALL land forces signal equipment (which is linked-to by at least three amateur radio websites). All of that was at a time when Arnie claimed to be employed by the US Army as a civilian criminal investigator. As a direct employee of the US Army, Arnie would have had easy access to all PUBLIC release documents of the US Army. I recommended (at the time) that Arnie visit any US Army field communications exercise to investigate the actual USE of morse code in field communications. Arnie ignored that. He preferred to "plonk" me in some "killfile" claiming some personal disatisfaction at not being "nice" to him. So...the gist of it is that wearing blinders to the real world can cause not only physical but mental problems of cognition. Some "investigator." NOT. If the US Army ever did hire him as a criminal investigator, I'm glad (for that branch of the military) that he does NOT "investigate" for them now. Leonard H. Anderson |
In article , Leo
writes: And the tree, both the one that made the sound and the metaphoric 'tree' referred to in the posting is very much still there! Irrelevant. You don't exist in reality. Therefore you would not make any sound. You DO make a lot of noise, though, but it is random, just QRM. WHO are you, anonymous one? Did your courage of convictions also fall? |
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In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes: I do it in self preservation. It can be hard to resist responding to either one of them when they make such idiotic statements. Translation: "I can't make a valid counter-argument to them so I will call them names and attack their character instead." I'd rather use my time in talking to more rational people. Translation: "I want to be among My Kind and those who Believe what I Believe." |
In article , "Arnie Macy"
writes: I really hate to see you do that. I killfiled Len for about a year, and in the process, missed many a good laughs. In other words, you CHICKENED OUT. You seemed to have "killfiled" yourself for that year. But, as I said in another reply -- just might have to be done. That's your right, of course, but all it is proving is that YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT. Get out of the "kitchen" Arnie. |
That's your right, of course, but all it is proving is that YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT. Get out of the "kitchen" Arnie. Imagine a televised debate on a matter, say a political one, where you have candidates behind either a table they're sitting at or a podium they are standing behind.. The first candidate begans to spew out all his ideas and what he wants to see happen and what he'd do if his side of the issue one, and then when the other candidate stepped up for his or her retort, the first candidate just stuck his fingers in his ears, rocked his head back and forth and looked up and the ceiling and started humming loudly to himself so he couldn't see or hear anything from the other side. Now, he doesn't know what the other side said, and probably doesn't care.... but the important matter is THIS.. what do all the voters in the audience think of that fellow???? makes you want to rub your chin and go "hmmmmmmmm...." Clint |
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