It all starts with the basics.

Before there were DVD's and compact disks, there
were casettes. Before there were casettes, there were
8-track tapes. It had to start somewhere; the way in
which analog music is written upon 8-tracks is
a fundametal aspect of music/sound reproduction.

Therefore, a person can't possibly know what he likes
in terms of products and how to spend his leisure time
unless he starts at the beginning and learns. He can't
possibly do this on his own; libraries, the internet,
dictionaries, encyclopedias, documentaries and the like
are not accessible by him. He must have instruction
FORCED upon him.

To facilitate this, we need to petition the governement
to start requireing classes in the skilled use of 8-track
tapes before he can go anywhere and purchase a
casette, CD, DVD or any other device that has
written/recorded music upon it. He can't possible, of
his own powers and via his own free will, make
decisions for himself regarding modern media and
musical reproduction systems. The Pro 8-track
tape crowd, or PETC, must stand it's ground and tell
them that that's how WE had to do it in the 70's,
so, therefore, that's who THEY should do it. All
retailers will be required to ask for documentation
proving you've passed an 8-track tape tutorial
before selling patrons the products of thier choice.

We're fair, though; we will not force them to USE
8-track tapes, or even purchase an 8-track tape
player. They can use them if they like or if they
dislike. It is the stated purpose of the PETC simply
to require them to undergo training and pass a
profeciency skill test in the use of an 8-track tape,
since this is a basic in listening to music, and everything
in the last 30+ years has stemmed from that.

If a consumer whines and complains that he should
be allowed to purchase whatever media type that he
feels is to his likeing, for whatever reason he states,
he will of course be labeled as lazy, stupid, dumb,
and wanting to just have things given to him for free.

After all, it all starts with basics.

/reductio ad absurdum

Clint
KB5ZHT

In article , "Clint" rattlehead at
computron dot net writes:


If a consumer whines and complains that he should
be allowed to purchase whatever media type that he
feels is to his likeing, for whatever reason he states,
he will of course be labeled as lazy, stupid, dumb,
and wanting to just have things given to him for free.

After all, it all starts with basics.

/reductio ad absurdum

Clint:

Yup, you've reduced your argument to the level of the absurd, all
right! Unfortunately, it didn't prove or disprove anything with regard
to code testing requirements in the ARS.

Amateur radio operators have always dealt with the level of technology
available at their own particular slice in time. However, the one constant
has been the Morse/CW mode, which continues to be a practical,
effective, efficient, and universal mode of electronic communication
in spite of any and all other modes which have been invented in it's
wake. And, as always, radio amateurs are not able to exploit the
many benefits and advantages of the Morse/CW mode unless they
learn the Morse code. Code testing requirements have always been
the means of providing the incentive to do so; in their absence, we will
see a decline in the use of this mode in the fullness of time. This is
just plain 'ole reality. No tricks of logic will change it, either.

73 de Larry, K3LT

"Spark" is outlawed, Larrah.

Hey, that's just a trick of logic!
how DARE you bring up a fact!


Yes. Takes little brains to learn morse, just a LOT of practice...to
find that the rest of the radio world does NOT use it anymore.

yea, and he tried to claim morse code was a "constant". Heh.....


You are trying to sell a product that isn't being bought.

That is the real core of the problem, RIGHT THERE..

"if morse code testing is not continued, it's use will
decline and eventually disappear"... WELL, then, it sounds
as they they are ADMITTING that they are trying to
force people to use something they may not otherwise
do.

They also come into conflict with the other half of the
morse code-o-philes that say "you don't HAVE to use it,
once you pass the test, that's up to you."

well, how do those two arguments logically coexist? they
can't....

(1) If we don't make test for it, then you won't learn
about it, then you won't ever use CW on the air.

and THEN....

(2) you don't have to use it on the air if you don't want
to. You just need to pass a test showing you can.



You would do better selling snake oil or used cars.

Come to think of it, you probably ARE...

that's exactly what they're doing. EXACTLY... except
one step worse; they are saying that if the government
doesn't force you to try snake oil, whether or not you
don't want to, then you won't ever learn about it and
thus snake oil use will disappear.

well, snake oil use HAS... and WHY? enough said.

The more the pro-coders argue, the more thier (non)logic
is exposed, the more then the amatuer society sees the
real truth and agenda behind it, and the more that will
steadily migrate to the modern era... they already are,
but the process will just be quickened. That's why I defy
any statement that accuses me of "not wanting the pro-coders
to speak thier mind".. on the CONTRARY, I want them
to talk and talk and talk and talk... I want them to keep
trying to reason why a person must be forced to consume
a non-competitive product.

It actually makes our job easier.

Clint
KB5ZHT

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

Amateur radio operators have always dealt with the level of technology
available at their own particular slice in time.

"Spark" is outlawed, Larrah.

Which is just but one of the numerous reasons why I don't use it,
Lennie!

However, the one constant
has been the Morse/CW mode, which continues to be a practical,
effective, efficient, and universal mode of electronic communication
in spite of any and all other modes which have been invented in it's
wake.

Yes. Takes little brains to learn morse, just a LOT of practice...to
find that the rest of the radio world does NOT use it anymore.

Except for licensed radio amateurs, but I guess it would take one to
know one, wouldn't it, Lennie?

Your beloved on-off keying coding is no damn good if you can't get
your transmitter to work...and then you have to have another
morseman at the other end to understand your monotonic beeping.

Fortunately, my transmitter(s) work just fine, thanks!

The only radio people you can communicate with are other morsemen.

And other SSBmen, other PSK-31men, other FMmen, other AMmen,
other RTTYmen, other Packetmen, other Hellschreibermen, and, of
course, the SSB-, PSK-31-, FM-, AM-, RTTY-, Hellschreiber, etc.-YL's
using those modes. You should try it sometime!

And, as always, radio amateurs are not able to exploit the
many benefits and advantages of the Morse/CW mode unless they
learn the Morse code.

Your "benefits" are imaginary. Your "advantages" are imaginary.

And your concept of what I find "imaginary" is imaginary.

You are trying to sell a product that isn't being bought.

Except by tens of thousands of Morse/CW users!

You would do better selling snake oil or used cars.

Come to think of it, you probably ARE...

Well, I've already tried my hand at selling used cars, and showed some
definite ability in that particular endeavour. However, I've never been able
to detect a very high demand for snake oil -- in fact, if my memory
serves me correctly, you're the only one I've seen mention it lately.

Code testing requirements have always been
the means of providing the incentive to do so; in their absence, we will
see a decline in the use of this mode in the fullness of time.

Oh, is this an ENVIRONMENTAL or "greenie" issue to you?

If the nasty old government doesn't keep up the code test you won't
have anyone to play with on the radio?

That's not very likely in my own case, but for future radio amateurs,
it would be matter of increasing concern.

This is just plain 'ole reality.

Yes, Larrah, you show a glimmer of understanding...but cannot
understand that you are an endangered species which has NO
appreciable impact on the radio ecology.

With things going the way they are, Lennie, ALL radio amateurs now
have a dotted line forming around them. And, regardless of the way
the conventional wisdom is going, reduced licensing standards isn't
doing anything to alter that reality.

No tricks of logic will change it, either.

So, bottom line...YOU want a WELFARE handout by keeping the
code test so you can parade around like an amateur pooh-bah.

If that's what you think, then show me, using direct quotations, where
I have said that, and I'll admit to it. Otherwise, you're just blowing your
uusally foul-smelling smoke. Talk about "environmental" hazards...

You're weird, Larrah.

I'm an Amateur Radio Operator. A certain amount of "weirdness" comes
with that territory, but how do you explain YOUR weirdness, Lennie?

Too much monoxide inhalation on that bus of yours.

Maybe, but ever since they gave me my new bus last year, that problem
has been drastically reduced, and I'm showing definite signs of recovery.

73 de Larry, K3LT

ospam (Larry Roll K3LT) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

Amateur radio operators have always dealt with the level of technology
available at their own particular slice in time.

"Spark" is outlawed, Larrah.

Which is just but one of the numerous reasons why I don't use it,
Lennie!

Larrah, forget about the law. Get yourself some junk steel and an arc
welder. With your superior skill, you'll be heard for blocks.

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Which is just but one of the numerous reasons why I don't use it,
Lennie!

Larrah, forget about the law. Get yourself some junk steel and an arc
welder. With your superior skill, you'll be heard for blocks.

Brian:

Funny, I've not heard many arc welders on the air lately. Everyone must
have switched to MIG/TIG.

BTW, I've never claimed to have any particular skill at welding. I would
have to learn and be tested in this useful skill before I could effectively
employ it.

73 de Larry, K3LT