Surely that file isn't on the members-only side of the site, is it?

Certainly it shouldn't be, and if so I intend to protest.


It isn't Dick ... it's open to the world.

Carl - wk3c


Apparently my "nevermind" is taking a while to propagate :)

Dick Carroll wrote in message ...

You raise an interesting question, Carl. How exactly should the
average ham go about proving that the RFI is indeed BPL, when the BPL
people say
"That's not us!'??



BPL has a unique "signature" (in the spectral/time domains) that can be
used to ID it.

Since there are different systems (SS from main.net and OFDM from Amperion,
for example) they have different signatures, which are distinct from other
sources
of interference and more traditional power line noise (of course the
utilities are
responsible for fixing the latter, too ... though their record is poor).


So to repeat, how does the average ham, whom you have exhorted to
"make sure it's BPL that you're complaining about", go about detecting
and sorting which is what, given that spectral analysis gear, and the
training to use it if it was available, is virtually nonexistnt in the
average hamshack? Is there a aural signature or more than one for the
different BPL modes? Is the Emmaus test site video/audio clip
reresentative enough to make the call, or is something more needed?

There's no mistaking the BPL signals in the Emmaus test area which are
SS although there's some discussion on that point. I didn't know what
to look for on my first pass through Emmaus and found all sorts of
crud particularly in the extensive commercial area. But I found a very
odd-sounding strong clicking noise in the area around the Emmaus High
School and reported it to Carl and Ed Hare who then told me the stuff
sounds like geiger-counter clicks. So I'd nailed it out of the chute
with just my little TS-50 HF mobile xcvr and a 2M magmaount whip. I've
probably heard every form of QRN/QRM out there by now and there is
*no* mistaking the BPL in use in Emmaus. The stuff grabs yer AGC and
it's all over.

The ARRL audio tracks and files don't do it justice, the spikes it
kicks out are too sharp and short to be captured properly with the
consumer-level digital recording/playback equipment used to generate
the recordings. OFDM is another form of the beast which I haven't
personally tuned on-site yet but the ARRL recordings ought to give you
the drift.


I expect that if it was indeed BPL RFI it would follow the power grid
pretty closely with signal strength highest when close, and tapering off
with distance away from the lines. But from the one report posted here
of a ham who said he heard it from a distance of 60 miles, seems like
propagation will play into the picture-to be expected at HF as all
experienced HF ham operators know. Or maybe *he* mis-identified it!

So who do hams call for assistance, the ARRL? I haven't seen anything
from them suggesting that.

Unfortunately the only help available is via the FCC and the ARRL is
beating the FCC into the ground over this one.

I seriously doubt the economics of BPL will ever bring it where I
live, even if it is approved, but others need to know.

w3rv

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:

"Dave VanHorn" wrote in message
...

After having gone to the ARRL site and listened to the examples, all I
can say is it sounds just like precipitation static and/or loose
connections. No way would I be able to identify one from the other.
I'm just going to have to complain every time I hear noise and make
recordings. If it's noisy enough to be a problem it should be fixed.

Any hope of us non-arrl members getting something to listen to?

Dave,

The ARRL video is not in the "members only" part of the site ...
it's easy to find from the articles on BPL in the public area.

Carl - wk3c

http://216.167.96.120/BPL_Trial-web.mpg
http://216.167.96.120/BPL_Trial-small.mpg

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX"
writes:

Yeah Jim.... six meter all mode.

I made a lucky guess.


Probably, but I also had made mention at least once somewhere in the past as
well.



It's hard as hell to use it right now with
the powerline interference in this freakin' county even before they
implement this whole BPL stuff!!!!!

Oh man...they can't even keep the lines quiet without BPL...

Perhaps their own line noise will mess up BPL performance.

We could only hope so! Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony. Using my
shortwave reciever is next to being a futile attempt. Have packed the
damned thing away for that same reason. In the truck, the AM radio can be a
trick to listen to if you are trying to listen to a station that is normally
always 5-9. If you run along a line of powerlines that happen to be
parallel to the roadway for a bit, forget listening to that station for a
while.....


--
Ryan, KC8PMX
FF1-FF2-MFR
--. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-.
... --. .... - . .-. ...

Precisely ..

Dick Carroll wrote:



Proximity to the power grid would be the main clincher, IMO, but what
about skywave propagation? That stuff could go around the world at QRP
evels!

And it will. You can even work VK6 from W5 on 40CW with one watt. If
it radiates, it also radiates skywave. Which mnakes this issue one for
WARC as well, bigtime.

--


-- Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX"
writes:

Yeah Jim.... six meter all mode.

I made a lucky guess.


Probably, but I also had made mention at least once somewhere in the past
as
well.



It's hard as hell to use it right now with
the powerline interference in this freakin' county even before they
implement this whole BPL stuff!!!!!

Oh man...they can't even keep the lines quiet without BPL...

Perhaps their own line noise will mess up BPL performance.

We could only hope so! Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony. Using my
shortwave reciever is next to being a futile attempt. Have packed the
damned thing away for that same reason. In the truck, the AM radio can be
a
trick to listen to if you are trying to listen to a station that is
normally
always 5-9. If you run along a line of powerlines that happen to be
parallel to the roadway for a bit, forget listening to that station for a
while.....


--
Ryan, KC8PMX
FF1-FF2-MFR
--. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-.
.. --. .... - . .-. ...


Tell me about it. I've been fighting with Alabama Power for 4 years. And I
still have noise.

Dan/W4NTI

"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...
Roger Halstead wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:27:27 -0400, a 32 bit process
wrote:


On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:56:50 GMT, "James Wilson"
wrote:


What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it
can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

It almost sounds like a geiger counter, but a lot louder and the
clicking is quicker in pace.


After having gone to the ARRL site and listened to the examples, all I
can say is it sounds just like precipitation static and/or loose
connections. No way would I be able to identify one from the other.
I'm just going to have to complain every time I hear noise and make
recordings. If it's noisy enough to be a problem it should be fixed.



Proximity to the power grid would be the main clincher, IMO, but what
about skywave propagation? That stuff could go around the world at QRP
evels!





BTW, most of the links failed and instead I ended up hijacked to QSL
dot net. (they call it redirecting, but if I didn't select to go
there, I don't want to go there...I'll settle for the 404 screen
instead of giving some one advertizing points.)

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)




Yep.....I've worked QRPp stations using miliwatts of output.

Can you imagine this garbage being generated and then propagated worldwide.
My Gawd !!!!

Dan/W4NTI

Write or call your local AM broadcast stations and tell them that
thier signal is being wiped out and you can't recieve them.

Clint
KB5ZHT

James Wilson wrote:
What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

Did someone take over a frequency you owned?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message .net...
James Wilson wrote:
What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party?

Did someone take over a frequency you owned?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike, that was kinda rude.