"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo writes:

N2EY wrote:
And his views do not reflect those of NCI...yeah, I know.

No, they do not.

NCI's mission in the USA is to get rid of Element 1, nothing else.
If/when
FCC dumps all code testing in the USA, NCI will cease to function in
the
USA.

So I've heard. We shall see. Organizations have a way of morphing, and
are notoriously resistant to organizational self dissolving.

I think they mean it.

As one of their directors, I certainly mean it...although the objective of
NCI
is not solely focused on USA morse testing alone.

That mission is demonstrated by NCI's petition, which asks FCC to drop
all
code
testing as a requirement, merge Tech and Tech Plus, and....nothing
else.

Just ask Carl or Bill.

See Bill's comment above... :-).

Len wants just one class of license.

From what I can gather, I'm not so sure he wants any license, or at
least the equivalent of that.

In a recent post where I pointed out that Len wants amateur radio to
essentially become a multiband high power version of cb, he denied wanting
no
license at all. Then he railed about multiple license classes. Logical
conclusion (if one can ever apply logic to his posts here) is that he
wants one
class of license.

Look up the post - couple days ago, aimed at me, something about needing
multiple classes of license for egos or some tripe like that.

"Testing for the Amateur Radio Service is...(snip)

Who the heck wrote *that*?? Not me! Not Hans or Carl, either!

Where's it from??

That is something that I came up with while I was typing out the reply.

It has a number of qualities that would appeal to some people that are
in power now:

Put it away before the wrong person reads it and takes it seriously!

It speaks to lowering or elimination of regulations. This is a very big
thing with some people. It relates itself to the "The government that
governs best governs least" worldview.

Yep.

It speaks to the continuance of a process that has been going on for a
few years now where less constraints have been put on radio
broadcasters. A disaster IMO, but to some a great thing. I'm talking
about relaxation of broadcaster regs, leading to outfits like Clear
channel owning all the radio stations in town. But as I say, there are
plenty who would think that this would be good.

Mike Powell is one of them.

Spin city, IOW. It is ridiculous, but ridiculous can sell big
sometimes.

To some people it's not ridiculous. Look how many books Ann Coulter and
Rush
Limbaugh have sold....

You think THAT wouldn't sell with some people in power? Another chance
to diss the hated regulators.

boo...hissss....


Here is what I think it means (to some):

I know people who think that they are "high tech" because they use a
cell phone. Or a computer. Or a GPS reciever. They might not be able to
explain how any of those things work, but by just using them, they
consider themselves high tech. I never asked, but I would be that they
would take one look at my IC-745 with it's 30 some buttons and knobs,
and conclude that just knowing how to operate it was a major bit of
"primarily a technically oriented service"

They oughta try to use the Southgate Type 7....

Oh-Oh! A percon of average intelligence could indeed learn to operate
my
rig if they read the manual. NO test required!

There ya go!

No test to use a computer....

Perhaps I should have said "fight successfully"

We'll sure try.

And that leads us back to a question I posed a while back. Why didn't
the peolpe who were officially agitating for the elimination of the
Morse code test have some simultaneous proposals to fill the vacuum that
would be created when the requirement went away?. It's called
responsibillity.

Because they didn't think it needed to be replaced with anything.

And here we DO have some people with some ideas, who ARE making
proposals. Who are they?

A committee of NCVEC.

No doubt there ARE plenty.

I hope there aren't. I don't see how my discussing a paper that is
already
in the public domain on a website is going to change people's minds to
agree
with said paper.

In the words of the great Flip Wilson (as Geraldine Jones):

"the DEVIL made me do it!"

Of course it doesn't. The whole concept of your devil's advocacy
serving as the seed for a no-test movement is at best amusing.

And at worst, possible.

More likely you are making some people feel very uncomfortable.
Certainly my questions make some people unconfortable.

If you want to make people hate you, cause them to think....

But Jim, I think you are just being set up to
take the blame here. Once the movement has gained momentum, it will
just
be one more thing to blame upon those arrogant "Pro-coders".

And it can be said that they were told to be quiet....

And that and 50 cents will get you a down payment on a cup of coffee.
It will be much too late by that time.

Might be already. The trend is in place - has been for a long time.

I've been working up a response to
the KL7CC paper.

I'll be happy to publish said paper on the web.

When I get it done I'll send it to KL7CC and post it here.

73 de Jim, N2EY

How much longer 'till it is done?

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

In article .net, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote

You mean the Novice wasn't a real license? If so, then those Novices
weren't real hams?

Leading question noted. And dismissed without response.

You wrote of the Novice being a learner's permit to a "real license", Hans...

But ya still haven't told us how to sell your idea to the FCC and the rest
of the ARS.

Since you've expressed nothing but disdain for the idea, you wouldn't sell
it to the FCC even if I told you how, so the best advice I can give you is
"hide and watch".

I don't have "disdain" for the idea, Hans. I simply don't think FCC will enact
it, for reasons previously listed. YMMV.

So I'll watch and see what happens.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article k.net, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote

Doesn't matter whether I like it or not.

Correct.

I got my Extra 33 years ago

Didn't know we were running a seniority contest here, but if we are you lose
by 7 years.

Were you in high school when you got yours? ;-)

...and there hasn't been a day since then that I couldn't pass
the required tests to get another one if that were required.

The point being?

That it's no big deal to my license. Or your license. But it may be a big deal
to prospective hams.

I'd expect that's true of most licensees.

The author of the paper which is the this thread's title says he couldn't. He
almost sounds proud of the fact.

I'm actually trying to help you refine it, Hans.

It's already refined, thank you very much.

You're welcome. Then I won't comment on it any more.

The problem is how you're gonna sell the idea to FCC and the rest of the
ARS.

At least it's a problem in **your** mind, but you don't count.

I don't count? Sounds a bit hostile and elitist to me.

The FCC counts.

So let's see what they do.

And think about sending that proposal to FCC for an RM number.
Who knows - it might gain widespread support and I'd be dead wrong about
it.

You are dead wrong about it, and it doesn't need "widespread support", just
the support of FCC.

I doubt FCC will enact such a radical change without widespread support in the
amateur radio community. So far I haven't seen a single rrapper in favor of it.
But FCC may be different.

Note that if FCC did enact your LP idea, they'd have to maintain a permanent
database of everyone who ever held an LP license, to make sure they didn't get
another one. Extra admin work for FCC - to solve what problem?

Good luck on selling your ideas to FCC

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes:


N2EY wrote:

And his views do not reflect those of NCI...yeah, I know.

No, they do not.

NCI's mission in the USA is to get rid of Element 1, nothing else. If/when
FCC dumps all code testing in the USA, NCI will cease to function in the

USA.

So I've heard. We shall see. Organizations have a way of morphing, and
are notoriously resistant to organizational self dissolving.


I think they mean it.

Perhaps they do. Right now. But I've been involved in enough
organizations to know that everything can change almost overnight.

Organizational suicide is quite rare.



That mission is demonstrated by NCI's petition, which asks FCC to drop all
code
testing as a requirement, merge Tech and Tech Plus, and....nothing else.


Just ask Carl or Bill.

Or W5YI?



Len wants just one class of license.

From what I can gather, I'm not so sure he wants any license, or at
least the equivalent of that.


In a recent post where I pointed out that Len wants amateur radio to
essentially become a multiband high power version of cb, he denied wanting no
license at all. Then he railed about multiple license classes. Logical
conclusion (if one can ever apply logic to his posts here) is that he wants one
class of license.

Look up the post - couple days ago, aimed at me, something about needing
multiple classes of license for egos or some tripe like that.

Who knows?


"Testing for the Amateur Radio Service is...(snip)



Who the heck wrote *that*?? Not me! Not Hans or Carl, either!

Where's it from??

That is something that I came up with while I was typing out the reply.


It has a number of qualities that would appeal to some people that are
in power now:


Put it away before the wrong person reads it and takes it seriously!

Just like my thoughts on your devil's advocacy toward testing using the
arguments used to get rid of the Morse CW requirement, this idea
couldn't stay covered up.

I find it chilling because it would be compelling to some.




It speaks to lowering or elimination of regulations. This is a very big


thing with some people. It relates itself to the "The government that
governs best governs least" worldview.


Yep.

It speaks to the continuance of a process that has been going on for a
few years now where less constraints have been put on radio
broadcasters. A disaster IMO, but to some a great thing. I'm talking
about relaxation of broadcaster regs, leading to outfits like Clear
channel owning all the radio stations in town. But as I say, there are
plenty who would think that this would be good.


Mike Powell is one of them.

Bingo! Sounding ominous, eh?


Spin city, IOW. It is ridiculous, but ridiculous can sell big

sometimes.

To some people it's not ridiculous. Look how many books Ann Coulter and Rush
Limbaugh have sold....

Bingo again!

You think THAT wouldn't sell with some people in power? Another chance
to diss the hated regulators.

boo...hissss....

Aint that the truff? Truly scary stuff!

- Mike KB3EIA -

N2EY wrote:

Good luck on selling your ideas to FCC

Luck will have nothing to do with it.

73, de Hans, K0HB

In article k.net, "KØHB"
writes:

N2EY wrote:

Good luck on selling your ideas to FCC

Luck will have nothing to do with it.

I am reminded of the Mae West line...

73 de Jim, N2EY