Well since you brought up the auto manufacturers..... Obviously there are
some cases where we have no choice in the matter. But in my own personal
case, I will NEVER buy a new car from the auto manufacturers.... I will
however buy one at least one year old, and from a private party, not a
dealership.

There are other obvious cases as well where conceding in this issue is
almost unavoidable. Obviously if your situation requires you to have an
automobile, then purchasing fuel would be an at least occaisional
requirement. Still in those cases, I choose to support the locally owned
franchisee's as opposed to truly corporate owned gas stations.


--
Ryan KC8PMX

"Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that
person to use The Internet and they won't bother you for weeks."

"KØHB" wrote in message
link.net...
"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote

Screw Corporate Amerika! (before they screw you)

EXACTLY!!!!!! You've got it all figured out for sure!

Who the hell do General Motors and Ford and Mercedes think they are
anyhow --- we used to have hundreds of different auto manufacturers?
Let's
open a blacksmith shop in our village and build our own cars, like our
grandfathers did! And, yeah, quit buying computers from Dell and
Gateway --- we have sand in our neighborhood --- we can make our own
silicon
chips just as well as Intel does! Dole pineapples --- who needs them
anyhow, I bet we can grow perfectly good pineapples here in Minnesota.
Who
needs all this corporate crap anyhow?

73, de Hans, K0HB

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote

"Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that
person to use The Internet and they won't bother you for weeks."

"Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that
person to fish, and they'll sit out on the lake all day drinking
beer."

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message hlink.net...
"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote

"Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that
person to use The Internet and they won't bother you for weeks."

"Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that
person to fish, and they'll sit out on the lake all day drinking
beer."

What's the downside?

I don't see any.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Isn't the fishing the main excuse for drinking beer anyways?? Fishing is
something I used to do while drinking! LOL


--
Ryan KC8PMX

"Never take too life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway."

"KØHB" wrote in message
news
"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote

"Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that
person to use The Internet and they won't bother you for weeks."

"Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that
person to fish, and they'll sit out on the lake all day drinking
beer."

73, de Hans, K0HB

N2EY wrote:

That's a Yankee frugality philosphy. I've been repeatedly told it's
"old-fashioned" and "out of date"....

And will continue to be old fashioned and out of date well after the
proponents of the "New accounting" are in the breadlines.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

That's a Yankee frugality philosphy. I've been repeatedly told it's
"old-fashioned" and "out of date"....

And will continue to be old fashioned and out of date well after the
proponents of the "New accounting" are in the breadlines.

That's always been my plan.

73 de Jim, N2EY

But in regards to the math..... compare a 10,000 dollar mortgage versus the
10,000 car loan with applicable rates. Nowhere did I say that one should
use refinancing money to pay off other debts. The other debts themselves to
be paid off quicker if at a higher interest rate is what I said, even if I
didn't make that painfully clear.

Ryan


OK, let's do the math.

Suppose someone goes out and buys a new car and finances $10,000 of its
price
at, say, 8% for 4 years. Their monthly payment will be $244.13 (thank you,
Quicken98) and the total cost of that $10,000 will be $11,718.24. $1718.24
of
interest.

Now suppose instead they tacked $10,000 onto a home refinance and bought
the
car for cash. Suppose they can get 5% for 30 years. Their monthly payment
increases by only $53.68 - but it does so for three decades! Total cost of
that
$10,000 is $19324.80 - that's $9324.80 of interest, even though the rate
is
much lower.

Of course the situation is muddied by the fact that you pay over a much
longer
period of time, but it's doubtful that the car will last 30 years. It's
further
muddied by tax considerations, and whether/when the borrowers can expect
increases in their income.

Most of all, there's the philosophical question of incurring long-term
debt for
a short-term purchase.

In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX"
writes:

But in regards to the math..... compare a 10,000 dollar mortgage versus the
10,000 car loan with applicable rates.

That's the point explained below. In some cases, it may make more financial
sense to pay cash for the car and have a bigger mortgage.

Nowhere did I say that one should
use refinancing money to pay off other debts.

Sure - but it's often a better deal to do just that.

The other debts themselves to
be paid off quicker if at a higher interest rate is what I said, even if I
didn't make that painfully clear.

The point I'm making is that you have to actually do the numbers to get the
clear picture.

In fact it often makes a lot of sense to consolidate high interest indebtedness
into a mortgage (first or second). Here's an example:

Suppose someone has gotten themselves into the following situation:

Mortgage: 6.5%, $100,000 unpaid principal, 25 years left on a 30 year loan.
Monthly P&I payment: $675.21

Credit cards: 15%, $25,000 total. 4 year payoff requires monthly payment of
$658.35

Car loan: 7%, $10,000 unpaid principal, 4 year payoff requires monthly payment
of $239.46

(note - the above is not an exaggeration - some people are in worse holes than
this!)

Left alone, the person will have to pay $1573.02 per month for the next four
years to pay off the car and credit cards, then they'll be on the hook for
$675.21 per month for the following 21 years to pay off the house. Total
payments of $245657.88 over the next quarter century, with $75,504.96 due in
the next 48 months.

Calculation of deductible vs. nondeductible interest is left as an exercise for
the reader.

Now suppose the person can get a 15 year refi at 5%. And suppose they refi the
whole mess, paying off the high interest nonmortgage loans immediately. Total
mortgage of $135,000. Monthly payment of $1067.57 for the next 15 years. Total
payments of $192,162.60 over the next 15 years.

That means an immeidate reduction in monthly payments of over $500, total
payout reduced by over $53,000 and total ownership of the house 10 years
earlier.

Again, calculation of deductible vs. nondeductible interest is left as an
exercise for the reader.

Now some folks might say that it's not a good idea to fold short-term items
like cars and credit cards into longterm stuff like mortgages. OK, fine - then
watch this:

Suppose we get a new 25 year mortgage of $100,000 at 5.5%. Monthly payment is
$567.79 That saves over $100 per month right off.

And suppose we also get a 15 year mortgage/consolidation loan for $35,000 at
5.5%. Monthly payment $285.98. But we pay off this loan at the rate of $813.98
per month - which will result in it being paid off in four years.

Under this plan, total monthly payment is $1381.77 - a monthly saving of almost
$200 per month and a long-term monthly saving of over $100 per month. And *all*
of the interest is tax deductible.

Of course the *best* deal is not to get into such a hole in the first place.
And the people who do dig themselves such holes will often have a hard time
being financially disciplined enough to pay off their loans ahead of time
rather than spending the difference.

And people say math is boring....

73 de Jim, N2EY