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December 16th 03, 11:45 AM

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Three-fourths of all U.S. radio amateurs are NOT members.

Think on that, Klunk.

I've thought about it.

Made your head hurt?

Poor baby.

One quarter of U.S. radio amateurs ARE members.

A MINORITY.

You still don't understand the difference between "minority" and
"majority," do you?

Of this minority, the ARRL polled their little group in the mid-late
nineties, and came away with "no clear mandate." An even spilt within
the ranks of the true believers? So even at the time, something was
wearing away at the propaganda machine. I wonder what's happened
since then?

Now you've got hams kicking around the idea of a two license structure
w/o Morse Code for HF access.

December 16th 03, 08:12 PM

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Three-fourths of all U.S. radio amateurs are NOT members.

Think on that, Klunk.

I've thought about it.

Made your head hurt?

Poor baby.

One quarter of U.S. radio amateurs ARE members.

A MINORITY.

You still don't understand the difference between "minority" and
"majority," do you?

Of this minority, the ARRL polled their little group in the mid-late
nineties, and came away with "no clear mandate." An even spilt within
the ranks of the true believers? So even at the time, something was
wearing away at the propaganda machine. I wonder what's happened
since then?

As I see it the schism is from the general attitude of long-timers
evolving into two main groupings: Those that mightily resist change
and those who can accept change.

The first group wants a relatively inflexible hobby activity, generally
frozen at the standards and practices of the time when they first
became acquainted with amateur radio (usually their first license).
They want the hobby to remain relatively stable, something they
can identify with, something familiar and comforting. They want to
be first among their equals ("primus inter pares"). Such feel secure
only with the old familiar things. They take the fraternal order view
of amateur radio and thus build up a mystique amongst themselves
far greater than reality. Those favor morse code because the
fraternal order elders favored morse code when they were first into
amateur radio.

The second group is accepting of change and they are not afraid of
it (although the constant advancement of all electronics does cause
some irritation). They are more interested in communicating and the
communication arts, are willing to try out new things. They have a
more realistic view of amateur radio as an avocational activity and
don't have it become their lifestyle. They don't mind the "fraternal
order" aspect (some enjoy that) but, at the same time, they are
into trying out new things of many kinds. Their emphasis is on
communicating, not the mode of communication.

The first group appears to have been in control of the League since
the beginnings of that fraternal order as a local club. Such is a
positive-feedback condition which supports the generally conservative-
traditionalist fraternal brotherhood that is heavy into mystique. They
cannot abide the second group because they are resistant to
change. The end result is the schism kept wide by the first group.

The first group is secure and comfortable in familiar surroundings
(and familiar mystique). If something was good for their Daddy and
Grand-Daddy, then by damn it is good for them. Change is
anathema because that is not familiar and makes them insecure.
A side effect of that behavior is the pretense they are still as young
as when they were first licensed long ago...or that they want to be
that young again.

The upper echelons of the League have, by public statements and
Board meetings, indicated that they have a majority of the first
group. Hence the League remained adamant in supporting the
morse code test requirement of S25.5 long after the IARU came out
for revision. The upper echelons did the appeasement bit about a
year prior to WRC-03 by taking the Neutral stand on the code test.

A neutral stand is a nice, easy cop-out in public. It takes no sides
and thus doesn't cause as much controversy as taking one side or
the other. Such is "comfortable." It also creates more mystique
by the pretense that the upper echelons are "considering more
important matters (than the code test)." Since most of the League
membership has already passed a morse code test, it seems (to
the upper ranks) that the code test is "unimportant."

All of the above is understandable...except that change WILL
happen to the upper ranks whether or not they like it. League
membership hasn't been above the one-quarter mark for a long
time and the League NEEDS more members to survive whether
the U.S. amateur radio license totals increase or decrease. League
leadership needs to adapt to new times...denial of reality might be
okay for a few more years but such stalling tactics will only foment
a much larger event in the future.

Now you've got hams kicking around the idea of a two license structure
w/o Morse Code for HF access.

Unthinkable! :-)

"Morse code has always been in ham radio and it always will be!"

"The code test as always been in ham radio licensing and that's
how it must remain!"

"Nobody should be on HF unless they are licensed with a morse
code test!"

Brian, those aren't verbatim quotes but the gist of what they are
have been written by many of the beligerant "first-group" hams.

It should be clear that there will never be any "consensus" on
code testing as long as such beligerance remains rooted among
the self-styled elite morsemen of U.S. amateur radio.

LHA

December 17th 03, 11:54 AM

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Three-fourths of all U.S. radio amateurs are NOT members.

Think on that, Klunk.

I've thought about it.

Made your head hurt?

Poor baby.

One quarter of U.S. radio amateurs ARE members.

A MINORITY.

You still don't understand the difference between "minority" and
"majority," do you?

Of this minority, the ARRL polled their little group in the mid-late
nineties, and came away with "no clear mandate." An even spilt within
the ranks of the true believers? So even at the time, something was
wearing away at the propaganda machine. I wonder what's happened
since then?

As I see it the schism is from the general attitude of long-timers
evolving into two main groupings: Those that mightily resist change
and those who can accept change.

The first group wants a relatively inflexible hobby activity, generally
frozen at the standards and practices of the time when they first
became acquainted with amateur radio (usually their first license).
They want the hobby to remain relatively stable, something they
can identify with, something familiar and comforting. They want to
be first among their equals ("primus inter pares"). Such feel secure
only with the old familiar things. They take the fraternal order view
of amateur radio and thus build up a mystique amongst themselves
far greater than reality. Those favor morse code because the
fraternal order elders favored morse code when they were first into
amateur radio.

The second group is accepting of change and they are not afraid of
it (although the constant advancement of all electronics does cause
some irritation). They are more interested in communicating and the
communication arts, are willing to try out new things. They have a
more realistic view of amateur radio as an avocational activity and
don't have it become their lifestyle. They don't mind the "fraternal
order" aspect (some enjoy that) but, at the same time, they are
into trying out new things of many kinds. Their emphasis is on
communicating, not the mode of communication.

The first group appears to have been in control of the League since
the beginnings of that fraternal order as a local club. Such is a
positive-feedback condition which supports the generally conservative-
traditionalist fraternal brotherhood that is heavy into mystique. They
cannot abide the second group because they are resistant to
change. The end result is the schism kept wide by the first group.

The first group is secure and comfortable in familiar surroundings
(and familiar mystique). If something was good for their Daddy and
Grand-Daddy, then by damn it is good for them. Change is
anathema because that is not familiar and makes them insecure.
A side effect of that behavior is the pretense they are still as young
as when they were first licensed long ago...or that they want to be
that young again.

The upper echelons of the League have, by public statements and
Board meetings, indicated that they have a majority of the first
group. Hence the League remained adamant in supporting the
morse code test requirement of S25.5 long after the IARU came out
for revision. The upper echelons did the appeasement bit about a
year prior to WRC-03 by taking the Neutral stand on the code test.

A neutral stand is a nice, easy cop-out in public. It takes no sides
and thus doesn't cause as much controversy as taking one side or
the other. Such is "comfortable." It also creates more mystique
by the pretense that the upper echelons are "considering more
important matters (than the code test)." Since most of the League
membership has already passed a morse code test, it seems (to
the upper ranks) that the code test is "unimportant."

All of the above is understandable...except that change WILL
happen to the upper ranks whether or not they like it. League
membership hasn't been above the one-quarter mark for a long
time and the League NEEDS more members to survive whether
the U.S. amateur radio license totals increase or decrease. League
leadership needs to adapt to new times...denial of reality might be
okay for a few more years but such stalling tactics will only foment
a much larger event in the future.

Now you've got hams kicking around the idea of a two license structure
w/o Morse Code for HF access.

Unthinkable! :-)

"Morse code has always been in ham radio and it always will be!"

"The code test as always been in ham radio licensing and that's
how it must remain!"

"Nobody should be on HF unless they are licensed with a morse
code test!"

Brian, those aren't verbatim quotes but the gist of what they are
have been written by many of the beligerant "first-group" hams.

It should be clear that there will never be any "consensus" on
code testing as long as such beligerance remains rooted among
the self-styled elite morsemen of U.S. amateur radio.

LHA

Darn-it, Len, I wanted Dee to say those things.

I think those endless droplets of water falling and hitting her
between the eyes, while listening to Farnsworth-spaced propoganda from
W1AW will be hard to undo.

December 17th 03, 08:44 PM

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

It should be clear that there will never be any "consensus" on
code testing as long as such beligerance remains rooted among
the self-styled elite morsemen of U.S. amateur radio.

LHA

Darn-it, Len, I wanted Dee to say those things.

She never will... :-)

I think those endless droplets of water falling and hitting her
between the eyes, while listening to Farnsworth-spaced propoganda from
W1AW will be hard to undo.

Nah. It's a more subtle form of propaganda...lying by omission.

Any organization that has a large media base can do that bit
by simply omitting content that is unfavorable to the media Hq.

They control the media content.

If the high wire-pullers at the League want to emphasize code by
deemphasizing all other modes, they have perfect control to do so.

No one else will be the wiser if all the news-events-doings comes
their way via League-controlled information. Everyone is captive
if they don't have other sources of information. Very subtle.

LHA

December 18th 03, 11:23 PM

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

It should be clear that there will never be any "consensus" on
code testing as long as such beligerance remains rooted among
the self-styled elite morsemen of U.S. amateur radio.

LHA

Darn-it, Len, I wanted Dee to say those things.

She never will... :-)

I think those endless droplets of water falling and hitting her
between the eyes, while listening to Farnsworth-spaced propoganda from
W1AW will be hard to undo.

Nah. It's a more subtle form of propaganda...lying by omission.

Any organization that has a large media base can do that bit
by simply omitting content that is unfavorable to the media Hq.

They control the media content.

If the high wire-pullers at the League want to emphasize code by
deemphasizing all other modes, they have perfect control to do so.

No one else will be the wiser if all the news-events-doings comes
their way via League-controlled information. Everyone is captive
if they don't have other sources of information. Very subtle.

Kind of like the vast left-wing conspiracy of mass media giving us the
minutest detail of every US soldier being KIA, but rarely mentioning
how effective we've been at reducing the number of enemy combattants.

December 19th 03, 02:21 PM

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Of this minority, the ARRL polled their little group in the mid-late
nineties, and came away with "no clear mandate." An even spilt within
the ranks of the true believers? So even at the time, something was
wearing away at the propaganda machine. I wonder what's happened
since then?

As I see it the schism is from the general attitude of long-timers
evolving into two main groupings: Those that mightily resist change
and those who can accept change.

You WOULD see a "schism", Lennie, but then since you are NOT a
part of Amateur Radio and do NOT have any experience in matters
pertaining TO Amateur Radio, yours is an uninformed opinion.

The first group wants a relatively inflexible hobby activity, generally
frozen...(SNIPPED)

You have yet to have this incessantly repeated assertion
validated by any substantial evidence, except for your own mindless
rantings, Your Scumminess.

The second group is accepting of change and they are not afraid of
it (although the constant advancement of all electronics does cause
some irritation). They are more interested in communicating and the
communication arts, are willing to try out new things. They have a
more realistic view of amateur radio as an avocational activity and
don't have it become their lifestyle. They don't mind the "fraternal
order" aspect (some enjoy that) but, at the same time, they are
into trying out new things of many kinds. Their emphasis is on
communicating, not the mode of communication.

You really do hate the "lifestyle" thing, don't you, Lennie?

It just irks the be-jeebers out of you that people do for
free-and-fun that which you only saw as a pecuniary pursuit.

Sucks to be you, Putz.

The first group...(SNIP)

"The first group" of "what", Lennie? From what poll or
demographics survey did you come up with ANY different "groups"...?!?!

A casual purusing of todays QST or CQ magazine compared with,
say, September 1955 will immediately shatter any more of your
assertions of "stuck" in past practices or technologies rants.

It should be clear that there will never be any "consensus" on
code testing as long as such beligerance remains rooted among
the self-styled elite morsemen of U.S. amateur radio.

So what you're saying is that until everyone sees it YOUR way,
there'll be no concensus, huh???

Arrogant Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

December 20th 03, 08:21 PM

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Of this minority, the ARRL polled their little group in the mid-late
nineties, and came away with "no clear mandate." An even spilt within
the ranks of the true believers? So even at the time, something was
wearing away at the propaganda machine. I wonder what's happened
since then?

As I see it the schism is from the general attitude of long-timers
evolving into two main groupings: Those that mightily resist change
and those who can accept change.

You WOULD see a "schism", Lennie, but then since you are NOT a
part of Amateur Radio and do NOT have any experience in matters
pertaining TO Amateur Radio, yours is an uninformed opinion.

I have experience in matters pertaining to amateur radio.

And I see the same thing.

Both of our opinions are validated by your daily postings.

December 20th 03, 09:50 PM

Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Brian)
Date: 12/20/03 2:21 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
.com...
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Of this minority, the ARRL polled their little group in the mid-late
nineties, and came away with "no clear mandate." An even spilt within
the ranks of the true believers? So even at the time, something was
wearing away at the propaganda machine. I wonder what's happened
since then?

As I see it the schism is from the general attitude of long-timers
evolving into two main groupings: Those that mightily resist change
and those who can accept change.

You WOULD see a "schism", Lennie, but then since you are NOT a
part of Amateur Radio and do NOT have any experience in matters
pertaining TO Amateur Radio, yours is an uninformed opinion.

I have experience in matters pertaining to amateur radio.

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! !

OH YES, Brain! We have SEEN your "experience" in Amateur Radio! No
logs...Unsubstantiated claims...Inability to name even ONE person who may have
"worked" you from Somalia and have a T5/N0IMD card that could "validate" your
claims...?!?!

Yes Sir, I am soooooooooooooooo (un)impressed!

And I see the same thing.

No doubt you see a LOT of things, Brain!

Both of our opinions are validated by your daily postings.

Both of your opinions have the "support" of your years of failed rantings
in this forum, unsubstantiated claims, and YOUR acknowledged support and
admiration of a "man" who is a documented pathological liar!

So please....Tell me about your valued opinion again, Brain...?!?!

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! !

Steve, K4YZ

December 21st 03, 03:01 AM

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Brian)
Date: 12/20/03 2:21 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
.com...
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Of this minority, the ARRL polled their little group in the mid-late
nineties, and came away with "no clear mandate." An even spilt within
the ranks of the true believers? So even at the time, something was
wearing away at the propaganda machine. I wonder what's happened
since then?

As I see it the schism is from the general attitude of long-timers
evolving into two main groupings: Those that mightily resist change
and those who can accept change.

You WOULD see a "schism", Lennie, but then since you are NOT a
part of Amateur Radio and do NOT have any experience in matters
pertaining TO Amateur Radio, yours is an uninformed opinion.

I have experience in matters pertaining to amateur radio.

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! !

OH YES, Brain! We have SEEN your "experience" in Amateur Radio!

No you haven't - we've never had a QSO. I've had several QSO's with
Dave Heil.

No
logs...Unsubstantiated claims...Inability to name even ONE person who may have
"worked" you from Somalia and have a T5/N0IMD card that could "validate" your
claims...?!?!

I've operated from various loactions under various callsigns.

You haven't worked me under my Novice call, and you haven't worked me
with my Korean call. You never worked me from /KH2, you've never even
worked me from Nebraska, Illinois, Florida, nor Ohio. Why is it no
suprise that you didn't work me from Somalia?

And, NO, I won't forge a card for you.

Yes Sir, I am soooooooooooooooo (un)impressed!

You are singularly indistinctive.

And I see the same thing.

No doubt you see a LOT of things, Brain!

And I hear things, too. I hear the voices in your head. They have
that maniacal laugh, too.

Both of our opinions are validated by your daily postings.

Both of your opinions have the "support" of your years of failed rantings
in this forum, unsubstantiated claims, and YOUR acknowledged support and
admiration of a "man" who is a documented pathological liar!

So please....Tell me about your valued opinion again, Brain...?!?!

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! !

You're the ranter and it's not working. You might want to try a new
approach, this one came up a bit short.

December 21st 03, 02:16 PM

Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Brian)
Date: 12/20/03 9:01 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

OH YES, Brain! We have SEEN your "experience" in Amateur Radio!

No you haven't - we've never had a QSO. I've had several QSO's with
Dave Heil.

It's not about having a QSO, BRAIN! It's about what you have claimed and
what you have done to substantiate those claims!.

No
logs...Unsubstantiated claims...Inability to name even ONE person who may
have
"worked" you from Somalia and have a T5/N0IMD card that could "validate"
your
claims...?!?!

I've operated from various loactions under various callsigns.

So have I, Brain. And I can substantiate them. I even have some of my
/JR6 logs left from 22 YEARS ago!

You haven't worked me under my Novice call, and you haven't worked me
with my Korean call. You never worked me from /KH2, you've never even
worked me from Nebraska, Illinois, Florida, nor Ohio. Why is it no
suprise that you didn't work me from Somalia?

It's no surprise that YOU have yet to provide even ONE record of that
activity, yet here you are AGAIN trying to defend it with the same "tactics"
taht have made you look so idiotic.

It's NOT about what I have done or NOT done, Brain...I am NOT the one
making the assertions!

And, NO, I won't forge a card for you.

Please don't. Lying is your mentor's bag.

And you may ask KC8MK how I handle QSL cards that aren't issued to me...
I got a bunch of his 160 meter QSL cards from the Buro by mistake (I used to be
KC8M...some DX mistook his second letter as "go ahead") Shipped some of his
cards to him. Destroyed those that he didn't want.

I don't need to bogus up anything...But thanks for expressing the idea
that you were thinking about it...I think THAT says more than anything!

Yes Sir, I am soooooooooooooooo (un)impressed!

You are singularly indistinctive.

Doesn't matter what I am, Brain...it's what YOU are NOT. "Factual"
and "truthful" come to mind at first...

And I see the same thing.

No doubt you see a LOT of things, Brain!

And I hear things, too. I hear the voices in your head. They have
that maniacal laugh, too.

They should...YOU make it soooooooo easy to laugh! You are quickly
becoming the Milton Berle of the NG! Thanks!

Both of our opinions are validated by your daily postings.

Both of your opinions have the "support" of your years of failed
rantings
in this forum, unsubstantiated claims, and YOUR acknowledged support and
admiration of a "man" who is a documented pathological liar!

So please....Tell me about your valued opinion again, Brain...?!?!

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! !

You're the ranter and it's not working. You might want to try a new
approach, this one came up a bit short.

No, Brain, it didn't...I imagine it hit yuo right between the
eyes...Again.

Why don't you wise up and realise that you've made stupid assertions you
can't/won't validate, never WILL be able to validate, and just stop making a
fool of yourself...?!?!

Or is THAT the objective?

Steve, K4YZ

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