Len Over 21 wrote:

In article om, "Dee D.
Flint" writes:

What it should be and too many fail to realize is that the proper sequence
is "Learn radio basics to become a ham and then as a ham continue to learn
and increase one's expertise." It should not be one versus the other.

The ONLY way to have an interest in radio is to get a ham license.

You could say that you have an interest in amateur radio, Len. It isn't
true, but you could say it.

You could say that you have an interest in gardening, but if your
interest extends only to walking past someone's garden and advising that
they're not properly caring for their climatus, you aren't a gardner.

You could say that you have a great interest in flying an airplane, but
if your interest extends to buying a ticket to fly to Chicago, you
aren't an aviator.

Reality points to the fact that you have nothing to do with amateur
radio other than to make submissions to the FCC regarding an avocation
in which you take no part.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article om, "Dee D.
Flint" writes:

What it should be and too many fail to realize is that the proper sequence
is "Learn radio basics to become a ham and then as a ham continue to learn
and increase one's expertise." It should not be one versus the other.

The ONLY way to have an interest in radio is to get a ham license.

You could say that you have an interest in amateur radio, Len. It isn't
true, but you could say it.

I haven't. I don't.

The only way to have an interest in radio is to get a ham license.

To you it doesn't count at all that "interest in radio" can result in
a half century of professional work...including design in radio.

To you it doesn't count that "interest in radio" AND electronics
can lead to very enjoyable hobby activities in building, testing,
designing new electronics things ('electronics' includes radio).

No, FIRST one "must" get an AMATEUR license according to
Herr Robust.

You could say that you have an interest in gardening, but if your
interest extends only to walking past someone's garden and advising that
they're not properly caring for their climatus, you aren't a gardner.

I've been into "gardening" for over 40 years. At this same address.

No amateur license required. No LICENSE required to garden.

Not a problem. I can discuss gardening with any neighbor and they
don't take offense. We share ideas, experiences, help each other
out.

In here, the arrogant officious ones DICTATE as to how all shall
behave according to their holy rules.

You could say that you have a great interest in flying an airplane, but
if your interest extends to buying a ticket to fly to Chicago, you
aren't an aviator.

I don't have a great interest in flying an airplane now. Too expensive.

I was once a student pilot. Still no license required for that. Not
even to operate a radio...already had the First Phone, so no 3rd
Class Restricted permit necessary.

An amateur radio license isn't legal to use on civil airways frequencies,
is it?

I am into flying R/C model aircraft on a casual basis...and have on
and off for 40+ years. NO license required there to use the 72 MHz
band channels. I've been into flying model aircraft for 60 years and
even worked as a professional at Testors before they got into the
plastic model side of that hobby. I was an International contestant
in that some time ago.

Reality points to the fact that you have nothing to do with amateur
radio other than to make submissions to the FCC regarding an avocation
in which you take no part.

Reality points to the fact that you CANNOT accept any opinions
contrary to your own with grace or gentle manner...you constantly,
beligerantly go after any person who can stand up to you and show
where your ideas aren't valid.

The FCC accepts ALL input on ALL radio services, Herr Robust.
They don't need "licenses" in any radio service to accept comments.
I know that is a very foreign thought to your proud, arrogant holiness,
but that IS true.

I'd like to see YOU address the FCC in the same manner as you
address others. Good luck on that one now!

LHA

Subject: Why I Like The ARRL
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/23/03 12:00 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

To you it doesn't count that "interest in radio" AND electronics
can lead to very enjoyable hobby activities in building, testing,
designing new electronics things ('electronics' includes radio).

But to be a Radio Amateur, as defined by the Federal Communicaitions
Commission, one must be a licensee.

You can call yourself a "radio hobbyist", radio afficionado, CBer, or
whatever else may fit. But "Radio Amateur" is not one of them.

You could say that you have a great interest in flying an airplane, but
if your interest extends to buying a ticket to fly to Chicago, you
aren't an aviator.

I don't have a great interest in flying an airplane now. Too expensive.

But..but...but...LENNIE!

YOU have been the one flaunting his copious retirement holdings and
telling us how grand it is to be you!

Are you now telling us you can't afford it...?!?!

The average cost of obtaining a Private Pilot's license in 1974 (when I
finished up my ticket) was around $2700. Todays it's just a bit over $3500.

I was once a student pilot. Still no license required for that. Not
even to operate a radio...already had the First Phone, so no 3rd
Class Restricted permit necessary.

Yes, Lennie...When you were a "student pilot" (snickering under my breath
here!!!!!) a permit was required to operate the radios...One is STILL required
if you intend to operate across an international boundry.

Your "first phone" was not acceptable for operating an aircraft radio.
The FAA did not accept ANYTHING except the Restricted Radiotelephone Permit as
late as the 1980's.

An amateur radio license isn't legal to use on civil airways frequencies,
is it?

Only you keep suggesting that "someone" suggests it is.

I am into flying R/C model aircraft on a casual basis...and have on
and off for 40+ years. NO license required there to use the 72 MHz
band channels. I've been into flying model aircraft for 60 years and
even worked as a professional at Testors before they got into the
plastic model side of that hobby. I was an International contestant
in that some time ago.

Then at one time you were required to have a station license for your Part
95 (Subpart C) operations. No...one is not required now. However YOU suggest
that it was not required "40+" years ago.

Again, you are in error, "Mr. Radio Professional".

Reality points to the fact that you have nothing to do with amateur
radio other than to make submissions to the FCC regarding an avocation
in which you take no part.

Reality points to the fact that you CANNOT accept any opinions
contrary to your own with grace or gentle manner...you constantly,
beligerantly go after any person who can stand up to you and show
where your ideas aren't valid.

So far, Your Putziness, you ahve FAILED to make any argument that suggests
Dave's "ideas aren't valid".

You HAVE demonstrated your gross ignorance on a great number of radio
topics, and an even far greater number of issues (all, actually) relating to
Amateur Radio.

The FCC accepts ALL input on ALL radio services, Herr Robust.
They don't need "licenses" in any radio service to accept comments.
I know that is a very foreign thought to your proud, arrogant holiness,
but that IS true.

Again...YOUR assertion rings hollow. An error. A falsehood.

I'd like to see YOU address the FCC in the same manner as you
address others. Good luck on that one now!

Dave! Did you forget to bow in deep reverence to His Radio Holiness, Sir
Anderscum the First?

I am soooooooooo (NOT!) ashamed of you!

Steve, K4YZ

On 23 Dec 2003 15:38:59 GMT, Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

Your "first phone" was not acceptable for operating an aircraft radio.
The FAA did not accept ANYTHING except the Restricted Radiotelephone Permit
as late as the 1980's.

One could not hold an RP and a higher grade of radiotelephone
operator license (which WAS valid for aircraft use) at the same time.
It was the Radiotelephone Third Class Permit with Broadcast
Endorsement that was not valid for aircraft operation.

The solution was the License Verification Card, the same shape and
color as the RP, attesting to the fact that the holder held an FCC
radiotelephone or radiotelegraph First or Second operator license.
The FAA was quite aware of this situation.

We were asked about that many times by student pilots who held First
or Second Class Radiotelephone operator licenses in that era and never
got any feedback that the FAA wasn't accepting it in lieu of the RP.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article om, "Dee D.
Flint" writes:

What it should be and too many fail to realize is that the proper sequence
is "Learn radio basics to become a ham and then as a ham continue to learn
and increase one's expertise." It should not be one versus the other.

The ONLY way to have an interest in radio is to get a ham license.

You could say that you have an interest in amateur radio, Len. It isn't
true, but you could say it.

I haven't. I don't.

Actually, you're quite the fibber. You have said it, and more than
once.

The only way to have an interest in radio is to get a ham license.

You can be interested in radio all you want without obtaining a ham
license. You can even be interested in *amateur* radio without
obtaining a ham license. That doesn't mean that you know much about it
or that your interest runs very deep. After all, you've declared a
decades-long interest in amateur radio and you've posted here for seven
years or so without acting on that "interest".

To you it doesn't count at all that "interest in radio" can result in
a half century of professional work...including design in radio.

I didn't write about "interest in radio". I wrote about "interest in
amateur radio". What counts is the convenience you find in leaving out
certain key words.

To you it doesn't count that "interest in radio" AND electronics
can lead to very enjoyable hobby activities in building, testing,
designing new electronics things ('electronics' includes radio).

Wrong again. You can build, test, design or smash all the radio and
electronics items you like. That has nothing to do with the fact that
you've yet to act on your supposed interest in amateur radio.

No, FIRST one "must" get an AMATEUR license according to
Herr Robust.

Wrong, yet again, Doctor Evil. To join the fun in amateur radio, you've
first got to obtain a license. You have to put your declared interest
into motion. You have yet to do that.

You could say that you have an interest in gardening, but if your
interest extends only to walking past someone's garden and advising that
they're not properly caring for their climatus, you aren't a gardner.

I've been into "gardening" for over 40 years. At this same address.

No amateur license required. No LICENSE required to garden.

Wooooooosh! That was an analogy zipping over your forehead. I didn't
write anything about licensing gardeners.

Not a problem. I can discuss gardening with any neighbor and they
don't take offense. We share ideas, experiences, help each other
out.

Bully for you.

In here, the arrogant officious ones DICTATE as to how all shall
behave according to their holy rules.

What holy rules would those be? You seem to be an arrogant, officious
type of guy. Are you one of those who dictate how you'll behave or are
you somehow a slave of the N2EY profile, unable to resist the outline of
your likely actions?

You could say that you have a great interest in flying an airplane, but
if your interest extends to buying a ticket to fly to Chicago, you
aren't an aviator.

I don't have a great interest in flying an airplane now. Too expensive.

I understand how it can be when you're on a budget.

I was once a student pilot. Still no license required for that. Not
even to operate a radio...already had the First Phone, so no 3rd
Class Restricted permit necessary.

Woooosh! Look out for those analogy strafing runs.

An amateur radio license isn't legal to use on civil airways frequencies,
is it?

Don't you know?

I am into flying R/C model aircraft on a casual basis...and have on
and off for 40+ years. NO license required there to use the 72 MHz
band channels. I've been into flying model aircraft for 60 years and
even worked as a professional at Testors before they got into the
plastic model side of that hobby. I was an International contestant
in that some time ago.

Good for you. Maybe that's just the place for you. Are there any R/C
aircraft newsgroups for you to haunt?

Reality points to the fact that you have nothing to do with amateur
radio other than to make submissions to the FCC regarding an avocation
in which you take no part.

Reality points to the fact that you CANNOT accept any opinions
contrary to your own with grace or gentle manner...you constantly,
beligerantly go after any person who can stand up to you and show
where your ideas aren't valid.

Oh, you're a fine, fine fellow to write of grace and gentle manner when
it comes to differences of opinion. When you're busy standing up to me,
do you think you'll ever get the spelling of "belligerent" or its
variants down pat?

The FCC accepts ALL input on ALL radio services, Herr Robust.
They don't need "licenses" in any radio service to accept comments.
I know that is a very foreign thought to your proud, arrogant holiness,
but that IS true.

Having the FCC accept your comments doesn't mean that you are a
participant in amateur radio. I've already acknowledged that you've
made comments to the Commission so the concept must not be at all
foreign to me. Get your facts straight.

I'd like to see YOU address the FCC in the same manner as you
address others. Good luck on that one now!

Why didn't you address the FCC in the same manner you've used here? Did
you call anyone "Colonel Klunk" or make any nifty S.S. references? Did
you include comments about "morsodism" or "the Church of St. Hiram"?
This looks like another "do as I say and not as I do" on your part.

Dave K8MN