"Mike Coslo" wrote

|
| So you and Mr Black just say there wouldn't be any such thing.
|

That's correct. If amateur radio did not already exist there is Zero
point Zero Zero Zero (and I'm rounding upwards) probability that it
would be created today.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message hlink.net...
"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?

You're just a bit too eager to jump into someones Wheaties, Your
One-Upmanship.

That thread was ORIGINATED by Lennie.

Please refer to:

Message 1 in thread
From: Len Over 21 )
Subject: If Ham Radio Were Invented Today (reprise)

For YOUR benefit, Master Chief, I point out the words "MESSAGE 1
IN THREAD" and the "FROM" line.

Now...Next time you find yourself a bit over-anxious to try and
humilate someone with your dazzling self righteousness, I hope you'll
be sure you have your facts right...


Steve, K4YZ

Now I got it!

73, Leo

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:21:05 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote:



Leo wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:14:17 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote:


DLTDHYOTAOTWO


Mike - you've piqued my curiosity - Was ist los?

Don't Let The Door Hit You On The Way Out (a little paraphrased, you'll
get the other OTA in the middle, I think! 8^)


- Mike KB3EIA -

Steve Robeson, K4CAP wrote:
"KØHB" wrote in message hlink.net...

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?


You're just a bit too eager to jump into someones Wheaties, Your
One-Upmanship.

That thread was ORIGINATED by Lennie.

Please refer to:


Message 1 in thread
From: Len Over 21 )
Subject: If Ham Radio Were Invented Today (reprise)


For YOUR benefit, Master Chief, I point out the words "MESSAGE 1
IN THREAD" and the "FROM" line.

Now...Next time you find yourself a bit over-anxious to try and
humilate someone with your dazzling self righteousness, I hope you'll
be sure you have your facts right...


Ahh, the confusion lies in that I originated the thread, and then
Lenover21 - for reasons unknown - perhaps not to taint himself with
replying to a thread I started, then started a new thread that was
titled the same, save for the "reprise".

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

Now...Next time you find yourself a bit over-anxious to try and
humilate someone with your dazzling self righteousness, I hope you'll
be sure you have your facts right...


Ahh, the confusion lies in that I originated the thread, and then
Lenover21 - for reasons unknown - perhaps not to taint himself with
replying to a thread I started, then started a new thread that was
titled the same, save for the "reprise".

Therein lies some of the reason for confusion...I shudda known
Lennie would have somehting to do with it...But that STILL doesn't
excuse Hans' sniping since the thread group he was quoting from WAS
the one His Putziness had generated...As were the comments I was
refering to...If I had slipped up like that, the Master Chief and
His Most Putziness would have had a Field Day (with apologies to the
ARRL...)

BTW, Mike, you snowed in? My YL is absolutely livid that we
AREN'T getting any of the snow...I grew up in it so I HAVE had my
fill!

73

Steve, K4YZ

Steve Robeson, K4CAP wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...


Now...Next time you find yourself a bit over-anxious to try and
humilate someone with your dazzling self righteousness, I hope you'll
be sure you have your facts right...


Ahh, the confusion lies in that I originated the thread, and then
Lenover21 - for reasons unknown - perhaps not to taint himself with
replying to a thread I started, then started a new thread that was
titled the same, save for the "reprise".


Therein lies some of the reason for confusion...I shudda known
Lennie would have somehting to do with it...But that STILL doesn't
excuse Hans' sniping since the thread group he was quoting from WAS
the one His Putziness had generated...As were the comments I was
refering to...If I had slipped up like that, the Master Chief and
His Most Putziness would have had a Field Day (with apologies to the
ARRL...)

Agreed. I've noticed that Hans seems to get a nasty case of cabin fever
around this time of year, and becomes a hammer in search of nails. It's
his only tool, and *everything* looks like a nail.



BTW, Mike, you snowed in? My YL is absolutely livid that we
AREN'T getting any of the snow...I grew up in it so I HAVE had my
fill!


We have maybe 8 inches on the ground. Roads are slippery enough that I
keep the Jeep in 4WD full time. It isn't too bad, but it isn't a pretty
kind of snow. Yesterday and today most of the schools in the center of
the state are closed. But they are all wusses! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article .net, "KØHB"
writes:

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?

The gunnery nurse seems to think that his PC is infested with an
A.I. virus that masquerades as all kinds of different communicators.
It's getting so that he can't tell reality from his internal fantasy.

Excuse me, I'm going off to practice my K0HB, Billy Beeper, and
Leo posting. :-)

LHA / WMD

In article k.net, "KØHB"
writes:

"Michael Black" wrote

| Take out that history from amateur radio, and I really
| don't see it starting up today.

You absolutely NAILED it Michael. Amateur radio was started and
sustained until post-WWII by tinkerers, experimenters, and technically
orientated types.

"Technically oriented," not 'orientated.'

They were using information on radio hardware theory that was
being refined and detailed by commercial, government, and
military radio users. Principally that was in the period from
1900 to the mid-1930s. Lots and lots of non-amateurs were very
busy trying to get a slice of what appeared to be a lucrative
new technology. A similar happening started in personal
computing in the late 1970s, many amateurs involved, until the
USERS and the makers got going to make the personal computer
a tool for everyday life and work.

For a more widened view of early radio development, the text
history by Hugh G. J. Aitken, "The Continuous Wave, Technology
and American Radio 1900-1932," Princeton University Press 1985
is recommended as a source. The first "driver" of radio
technology was the maritime world. Maritime radio was
considered indespensible for ocean vessels, giving them something
they had never had before - communications beyond the horizon.

Some amateurs, restricted to sources from a CT publisher, will
insist that amateurs "discovered short waves" 83 years ago. Not
quite since the Marconi Company first noted the long leaps in
"short wave" paths 84 years ago. Some 82 years ago a
commercial communications carrier was already trying out HF on
several wavelengths ("down" to 30 meters) to improve daylight
radio transmission paths. Commercial concerns, especially
broadcasting, were the drivers of radio technology after WW1..
Those who do 24/7 radio communications are more likely to notice
effects than amateurs limited to a few hours each day.

The commercial-industrial-governmental-military users of radio
were already migrating upwards iin frequency from the late 1930s
and especially so after WW2. However, the "tinkerers,
experimenters, and technically" oriented folks have ALWAYS
existed and grew more numerous after the "military surplus"
years just following WW2. That is most notable in NON-ham
electronics activities such as robotics, personal computing,
music systems, security-alarm-control applications. Radio
control of model aircraft and other vehicles is a big market (AMA
has as many or slightly more members than ARRL). AMA got
a large block of frequencies at 72 MHz just for R/C all by itself.

Despite the grousing, bitching, and whining of "experimenters"
unable to get the exact parts for copying a magazine article
project from Radio Shack, electronic parts remain on the market,
as numerous as they were in 1947 or 1967 (actually more so)
but are not solely concerned with the so-called alalog radio field.
Even the giant and growing Fry's Electronics chain carries a
whole aisle of packaged components from capacitors to circuit
board blanks. Modern day electronics "experimenters" have gone
well beyond radio in the scope of their fun.

While some hams look with distaste, disgust, and some with
pejorations of evil upon "CB," the 27 MHz kind of personal
communications opened in 1958 (that's a mere 46 years ago)
WITHOUT the amateurs and expanded enormously when the
offshore designs and manufacturings took off.

Offshore design and manufacture facilities have greatly aided
the availability of everything from parts to finished systems at
relatively low cost. That allowed the hobbyists to pursue all kinds
of areas of electronics design and construction in home workshops.

Had amateur radio remained cut off after WW1, there would have
been NO ARRL to lobby or do anything. The club clocks would
have been reset to the competition for national memberships of
the pre-1914 times...telegrams and telegraphy messages would
still have gotten through in the commercial-government world of
radio. Broadcasting would have expanded enormously after 1920
despite amateur activities along with receiver development and all
the peripheral electronics around "radio" (everything from wireless
mikes to radio-coupled phonographs and eventually to stereo-
binaural sound and magnetic recording for "hi-fi" sound). HF would
still have been a pre-WW2 hotbed of commercial-government
communicatios carriers, everything from 4 voice channel width
SSB to single-channel RTTY. By 1938 some police departments
had been "experimenting" (trying out) mobile FM, with success.
Once rocketry had become relatively practical after WW2, the
commercial satellite communications "birds" would have existed
(Telstar was a US telephone company project). Now the
equatorial geosynchrous orbit is FILLED with comm sats (about
every 3 degrees or so) and the "long-distance" radio communications
goes over them rather than old HF (if not over fiber-optics cables
or microwave radio relay having even more bandwidth).

That our service continues to exist today is a
miracle, attributable mainly to the efforts of RAC, ARRL, DARC, JARL,
IARU, RAE, RSGB, and all the other national societies who so far have
convinced the regulators to allow us to continue.

Ah, but in this hypothetical alternate reality, there would be NO such
organizations. They MIGHT form again but there is NOTHING to
guarantee that they would be even close to doing what they do now.
Evolution of amateur radio organizations happened just as it did to
every other radio service...some would survive, others would not.

The "selling job" of these FUTURE clubs (not really "societies")
would be difficult since they would have NO "track record" to fall back
on, no mythical claims of being necessary in any emergency, or any
of the legends they loved to trot out. It would be back to Square One
for most of them except for the first one, the Radio Club of America.

Remember that the ARRL began as a local CT radio club with the
ideal of serving as a freebie message-forwarding service. In today's
world it would be a Hacker club "hacking" on Western Union's and
other telegram suppliers' high telegram fees. All the high-sounding
PR BS of today hadn't happened and all the ARRL would have to
show for itself in this new alternate reality is some nebulous,
rationalized message relay Hacking. Not a good thing to expand
upon and not something to convince regulators that they should
allocate bands and things to amateurs. That could be done in a
different way.

But, without the "tradition" and "glory of service" (or whatever) that
has been the propaganda tool of the membership organizations'
spoon-feeding of What To Do, What To Say, How To Act, the
present-day orgs couldn't do it the same way they have for years.

In this alternate reality, the word "ham" might never have caught on.
It was a pejorative given by professional telegraphers to amateurs
originally (from ARRL's own etymological definition). "Amateur" is not
a bad thing since there are many and varied amateur activities of all
kinds, especially in sports. "Ham" as a prefix has never been a good
label, especially in show business.

My speculation is that HF would definitely be open for allocation for
recreational activity. The commercial and government users of HF have
vacated much of it, use it primarily for time-frequency standards,
broadcasting, much less communications than two to three decades
ago. If R/C models can get a block of lower VHF frequencies, I'm sure
that amateur radio could get some HF bands for fun and games.

The notion of a "start up" amateur radio service or any personal radio
service with such broad gifts of spectrum and freedom to experiment as
we enjoy wouldn't gain any traction at all in todays technological
environment.

A quaint notion based almost entirely on the past present reality
happenings...not to mention several boatloads of mythology and
legend PR that is more puffery than substance. Sorry, not bought.

There is absolutely NOTHING "wrong" with getting a block of
frequencies just for recreation. R/C did it and modelers have NEVER
claimed anything close to aiding homeland security or being of some
vital and important aid in times of emergency.

27 MHz CB is already 46 years old. FRS and GMRS exists today
as do almost innumerable "cordless" and "wireless" low power RF
communications devices of many purposes, from VHF on up to C
Band (5 GHz) in microwaves. I say there would definitely be a lot of
personal communications "radios" in this alternate reality, regardless
of amateur claims (in this universe) of pioneering them.

But, in this alternate reality, there might be some bitter and
prolonged fighting in urban and semi-urban residential areas as
amateur radio folks tried to put up large, ugly wire and tubing
structures (beautiful to them, maybe, but a decided eyesore to
non-radio neighbors).

Amateur radio, if it came to be, would have a decidedly different
scope of activities in this alternate universe. It would BEGIN to
evolve, probably to something else, since there was no "tradition"
to "preserve" nor any set of 1930s Standards and Practices to
uphold 7 decades later. Radio amateurism would begin ANEW.

LHA / WMD

On 27 Jan 2004 17:43:12 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

In article .net, "KØHB"
writes:

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?

The gunnery nurse seems to think that his PC is infested with an
A.I. virus that masquerades as all kinds of different communicators.
It's getting so that he can't tell reality from his internal fantasy.

Excuse me, I'm going off to practice my K0HB, Billy Beeper, and
Leo posting. :-)


Hey! No Leo posting! That's my job!

LHA / WMD

73, Leo

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article .net, "KØHB"
writes:

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote

|
| This thread, Michael, was started by a known newsgroup antagonist
| who is not, himself, an Amateur Radio licensee...Not even a Novice
| Class. His perception of "radio" is strictly from that of a person
| looking to make a buck...nothing else.
|

Mike Coslo isn't a ham? What's this "KB3EIA" business he puts in his
signature then?

The gunnery nurse seems to think that his PC is infested with an
A.I. virus that masquerades as all kinds of different communicators.
It's getting so that he can't tell reality from his internal fantasy.

Excuse me, I'm going off to practice my K0HB, Billy Beeper, and
Leo posting. :-)

LHA / WMD


'Preciate it, Len. I'm kind of busy this week and do need some
relief. If you ever need a break from WMD postings, just holler.

73, bb